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  1. #1
    Registered User Darkius's Avatar
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    How do slow twitch muscle fibers get sugar?

    I heard even though they can burn fat, either they need to burn some sugar with it to start the process, or fast twitch fibers are necessarily recruited slightly with them. I think the form does apply.

    Do they have to get sugar from the blood? What about fats? Do they have any internal fuel storage?

    I know fast twitch muscles have glycogen.

    Can they locally take glycogen from nearby fast twitch fibers?


    Or do they just take sugar from the blood until the liver notices and uses cortisol to liberate fats for fuel? Does cortisol also liberate sugar from glycogen around the body?


    Is muscle turned to sugar at all cortisol levels, or only significantly above a threshold of cortisol?
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    Are you willing to read through lessons 1 and 2 of my general exercise course? https://www.healthierwithscience.com...ercise-course/

    I think you will find that it will address these questions and clear up a lot of your misconceptions about this topic.
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    Registered User Darkius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Are you willing to read through lessons 1 and 2 of my general exercise course? https://www.healthierwithscience.com...ercise-course/

    I think you will find that it will address these questions and clear up a lot of your misconceptions about this topic.
    Thank you!


    ...

    Your lesson 2 told me some intra muscular fat is used. No mention of it being prioritized over body fat. Also says the liver has glycogen, which I guess is used before protein.

    It also told me the spelling for gluconeogenesis. I then went to wikipedia. That said only old length fatty acids can turn to glucose, and to a small extent. Fat mostly is used to power the convestion of lactate and glycerol into liver glycogen. It has 200-400g.


    I still don't know how the muscles ask the liver for glycogen. I assume by lowering blood sugar. I also don't know if the liver taps muscle glycogen or only its own.

    I need some more vocabulary words to look up. Maybe I'll look into "blood sugar" and "catabolism".
    Last edited by Darkius; 10-22-2021 at 11:02 AM.
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    you're asking this out of curiosity and not because you're trying to optimize something irrelevant, right?
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    Originally Posted by faithbrah View Post
    you're asking this out of curiosity and not because you're trying to optimize something irrelevant, right?
    lol, we've been here too long...
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    Originally Posted by faithbrah View Post
    you're asking this out of curiosity and not because you're trying to optimize something irrelevant, right?
    I was reading through the post waiting for the "so if I want to increase my walking duration by 6% and incline by 2.5%, and this muscle is made up of x% slow twitch fibers and y% fast twitch fibers, and I consume z grams of carbohydrates..."
    BP: 275
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by faithbrah View Post
    you're asking this out of curiosity and not because you're trying to optimize something irrelevant, right?
    You should see the ones he posts and then deletes. Even he had to cringe at them.
    Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
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    Originally Posted by faithbrah View Post
    you're asking this out of curiosity and not because you're trying to optimize something irrelevant, right?
    Its pretty common knowledge that if you optimize your fast twitch sugar uptake, that you will gain 1/100th of a gram of muscle per year (+/- 1 gm)
    A dock in harbor is safe, and thats what docks are built for.
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    Here is some meat that came from a snapping turtle. The white meat is from its neck, fast twitch. The dark meat is from its legs, slow twitch. How did it taste?

    Like snapping turtle.



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    Thank you for reading through them. To answer your questions:

    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    I heard even though they can burn fat, either they need to burn some sugar with it to start the process, or fast twitch fibers are necessarily recruited slightly with them. I think the form does apply.

    Do they have to get sugar from the blood? What about fats? Do they have any internal fuel storage?
    All muscles will likely use some combination of ATP that is lying around initially, glycogen (carbohydrate source muscles), intramuscular triglyerides (fat source in muscles), and then also take up glucose/fat from the bloodstream. In theory they may even use their own protein though I don't expect this to occur with reasonable exercise regimens.

    I know fast twitch muscles have glycogen.

    Can they locally take glycogen from nearby fast twitch fibers?
    They will have their own glycogen they can use.


    Or do they just take sugar from the blood until the liver notices and uses cortisol to liberate fats for fuel? Does cortisol also liberate sugar from glycogen around the body?


    Is muscle turned to sugar at all cortisol levels, or only significantly above a threshold of cortisol?
    Don't worry about cortisol; you are way overthinking it if this is a concern. Nothing you do will directly alter cortisol levels. Muscle will not turn into sugar.

    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    Thank you!


    ...

    Your lesson 2 told me some intra muscular fat is used. No mention of it being prioritized over body fat. Also says the liver has glycogen, which I guess is used before protein.
    Glycogen is definitely used before protein. Intramuscular triglycerides are body fat; they are just located in a different place. With longer distance endurance exercise you will use more subcutaneous adipose tissue stores to continually supply energy.

    It also told me the spelling for gluconeogenesis. I then went to wikipedia. That said only old length fatty acids can turn to glucose, and to a small extent. Fat mostly is used to power the convestion of lactate and glycerol into liver glycogen. It has 200-400g.
    When your muscles work some lactate is produced, this can be taken to the liver in the Cori cycle and metabolites can go back to the muscle to supply more energy.


    I still don't know how the muscles ask the liver for glycogen. I assume by lowering blood sugar. I also don't know if the liver taps muscle glycogen or only its own.
    The liver will use its own glycogen and make new glucose through gluconeogenesis. The cortisol you mentioned above will stimulate an increase in blood sugar as well to help feed the muscles.

    I need some more vocabulary words to look up. Maybe I'll look into "blood sugar" and "catabolism".
    This is a good review hitting all the relevant concepts: https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/18/9/4963
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  11. #11
    Registered User Darkius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post

    ....



    This is a good review hitting all the relevant concepts: https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/18/9/4963
    Thank you! That is just the in depth type of info I'm looking for.


    I did take biology in high school and college, but I did not read the whole book then and just know the main points we were tested on. I did not know that slow twitch fibers had glycogen. I only gleened from the lecture that fast twitch fibers have it. That was over a decade ago. I'm now finding several papers that back your claim up.
    Last edited by Darkius; 10-22-2021 at 02:40 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    Thank you! That is just the in depth type of info I'm looking for.


    I did take biology in high school and college, but I did not read the whole book then and just know the main points we were tested on. I did not know that slow twitch fibers had glycogen. I only gleened from the lecture that fast twitch fibers have it. That was over a decade ago. I'm now finding several papers that back your claim up.
    I can definitely see you trolling your teachers & professors with endless Qs in hs & college. I hope they were as good-natured as Heisman.

    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    You should see the ones he posts and then deletes. Even he had to cringe at them.
    Like OP's injuries from missile & martial arts accidents from his days in the marines? After his college years of course.
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    I can definitely see you trolling your teachers & professors with endless Qs in hs & college. I hope they were as good-natured as Heisman.



    Like OP's injuries from missile & martial arts accidents from his days in the marines? After his college years of course.
    I was in the marines 11 months, then went to college, though I did take several junior college classes in high school, such as the biology classes.

    In class, I was a daydreamer, or fell asleep. I perked up when the instructor starting going over what topics would be on the test. I then crammed those the night before.



    This forum is not a classroom. I'm not interrupting anyone. No one has to respond to my threads.

    You seem less bothered by all the 1 post members who ask the same question that 10 members before them asked that same week, often a few threads lower than theirs on that same page. I bet some are the same person.
    Last edited by Darkius; 10-22-2021 at 06:17 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    I was in the marines 11 months, then went to college, though I did take several junior college classes in high school, such as the biology classes.

    In class, I was a daydreamer, or fell asleep. I perked up when the instructor starting going over what topics would be on the test. I then crammed those the night before.



    This forum is not a classroom. I'm not interrupting anyone. No one has to respond to my threads.
    You're free to troll, others are free to comment. It'd seem more genuine if you didn't delete your posts that are/become obvious trolling, aside from it dismissing those who take time to respond seriously.

    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    You seem less bothered by all the 1 post members who ask the same question that 10 members before them asked that same week, often a few threads lower than theirs on that same page. I bet some are the same person.
    Not sure which 11 members you're referring to, but next time you read one just reply "Fierce 5".
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    Registered User Darkius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    You're free to troll, others are free to comment. It'd seem more genuine if you didn't delete your posts that are/become obvious trolling, aside from it dismissing those who take time to respond seriously.



    Not sure which 11 members you're referring to, but next time you read one just reply "Fierce 5".

    The only reasons I deleted my posts is one of the main posters here (a trainer) said the posts were irritating him. I don't want to irritate anyone who helped me out, and he was polite and honest how he said it.

    That and you or one of the other main respondents said I should delete my posts. Ironic how when I do, you then complain about that too as evidence of trolling. Catch 22. I'm done trying to appease you.

    I still say each of my threads had questions I wanted answers to, or ideas I thought were good. But it became clear I would not get any more good replies, just negative ones, so deleting them seemed best for all.
    Last edited by Darkius; 10-24-2021 at 09:35 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    The only reason I deleted my posts is certain one of the trainers said the posts were irritating him. I don't want to irritate anyone who helped me out, and he was polite and honest how he said it.

    I still say each of my threads had questions I wanted answers to, or ideas I thought were good. But it became clear I would not get any more good replies, just negative ones, so deleting them seemed best for all.
    Please do not do that again. While most of my replies do not take much time, I nonetheless do (most times) try to provide useful information, and I assure you there are plenty of people lurking who get a lot out of the posts.

    If your trainer wants you to delete posts then that is a huge red flag that you should ditch the trainer.
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    The only reason I deleted my posts is certain one of the trainers said the posts were irritating him. I don't want to irritate anyone who helped me out, and he was polite and honest how he said it.

    I still say each of my threads had questions I wanted answers to, or ideas I thought were good. But it became clear I would not get any more good replies, just negative ones, so deleting them seemed best for all.
    Mods will warn you if you keep deleting.

    Think before you post. You don't need to know the answer to most of the questions you ask.
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Please do not do that again. While most of my replies do not take much time, I nonetheless do (most times) try to provide useful information, and I assure you there are plenty of people lurking who get a lot out of the posts.

    If your trainer wants you to delete posts then that is a huge red flag that you should ditch the trainer.
    Not my trainer. A member on this forum who happens to be a trainer and replies to several newbies said he is irritated by my threads.

    I'm sorry I deleted several good posts with each thread. I just need to grow thicker skin and ignore the people following me around harassing the threads because they don't like the topic.


    Reading your post just now has almost emboldened me to post the results of my search through that paper. I think I will. I'm just making sure my theory is right first, since some will be irritated.
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    Cue the violin music. No one's irritated by you, some just know you're trolling. Post away.
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    Registered User Darkius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Please do not do that again. While most of my replies do not take much time, I nonetheless do (most times) try to provide useful information, and I assure you there are plenty of people lurking who get a lot out of the posts.

    If your trainer wants you to delete posts then that is a huge red flag that you should ditch the trainer.
    Hopefully the lurkers read this:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1649490373


    I benefited from the articles you gave me.
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  21. #21
    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Heisman2 is online now
    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    Hopefully the lurkers read this:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1649490373


    I benefited from the articles you gave me.
    Just to be clear if I'm the one you were referring to, I have a MD, not a PhD.

    I also find it interesting that with all your reading and logic in that first post, you came to the conclusion that eating a can of beans before cardio is a good idea.
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