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    Registered User Dickling's Avatar
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    Low bar squat styles?

    Greetings all.

    I have recently been switching to a lowbar squatting style, due to seemingly being better for my knees. Though I'm getting some conflicting information about the lift. Usually the lift is coached where you're leaning very much forward, and using hipdrive (Rippetits, alot of other trainers)

    However, this way I could never get any real torque or explosiveness into the lift, and seemed to end up being like a slow goodmorning type lift. Maybe It's simply because im not strong enough (I have just gotten back into training after getting fat and not lifting during Covid.)

    That version at least feels decentish on the knees.

    However Brian Alsruhe seems to coach the lift where you are alot more upright, and actually attempt to maintain a realtively upright posture during the lift. I think im going to try it out, but I wonder if it's going to smash my knees up again.

    Anyone have advice/experince with either style?
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    I would attempt the more upright style, between the two. If you have longer legs, it's going to be harder though.

    I am greatly predisposed to the former, however. It's better for the squat to be performed as closely to its own movement pattern as possible. You may be stronger with more of a hinge pattern, but it avoids a weak point and overlaps too much with other hinges.
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    I have more of a forward lean to my squat due to my body proportions and that I don't have a lot of forward travel with my knees.

    Find whatever style suits your body.
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    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Neither are good coaching methods.

    How upright you should be will depend on the angle your levers put you at and where you place the bar.

    Trying to lean more and the bar coming forward on to toes is no good, trying to force being upright will never work under load as you'll just dip forward out of the whole and create a big shift.

    Whatever keeps the bar closest to a vertical bar path over mid foot for your build.

    Individually a coach might suggest pushing hips back for someone not doing so enough, or staying a bit more upright for some coming forward on the descent but that's individual queues to address specific issues you can't generalise them
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    ... trying to force being upright will never work under load as you'll just dip forward out of the whole and create a big shift.
    I had a lot of trouble with this last year and earlier this year, and you even saw that I had made a lot of improvement. So, even though it remains challenging for my leverages, if I didn't try for it, I don't think I would have made that progress, so why do you think that's necessarily not a good idea?
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    Registered User Dickling's Avatar
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    So very split opinions.

    I guess I should be experimenting with the styles, and if possible record my self and come back for advice?

    But we agree that the uprightness is not as such "wrong" in a lowbar squat? Because i really see people lean so much forward that they are basically doing a good morning, which just seems.. wierd and suboptimal.
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    Registered User Dickling's Avatar
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    Do you attempt to create some sort of "torque" to your squat? Screwing feet into the ground, etc? Because the very wide stance, bend forward squat really doesn't seem to be well suited to do that, at least for me.
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    Originally Posted by Dickling View Post
    So very split opinions.

    I guess I should be experimenting with the styles, and if possible record my self and come back for advice?

    But we agree that the uprightness is not as such "wrong" in a lowbar squat? Because i really see people lean so much forward that they are basically doing a good morning, which just seems.. wierd and suboptimal.
    You apparently skipped over my whole post lol.

    Look up David Woolson squat, he squats well. Lean is perfectly fine as that's what his body sets his style too.
    Look up Jordan feigenbaum too.

    Alternatively Bryce Lewis is much more built to be relatively upright and maintain bar path over mid foot
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    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    I had a lot of trouble with this last year and earlier this year, and you even saw that I had made a lot of improvement. So, even though it remains challenging for my leverages, if I didn't try for it, I don't think I would have made that progress, so why do you think that's necessarily not a good idea?
    There's no benefit to being to upright, the most advantageous position is always to have bar over mid foot, any deviations from this puts the weight in a worse position.

    I don't exactly recall your squats. If you were leaning forward so the bar came over your toes then being a bit more upright would be beneficial. But if your lean results in a nice mid foot position any more uprightness is always going to be negative
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    There's no benefit to being to upright, the most advantageous position is always to have bar over mid foot, any deviations from this puts the weight in a worse position.

    I don't exactly recall your squats. If you were leaning forward so the bar came over your toes then being a bit more upright would be beneficial. But if your lean results in a nice mid foot position any more uprightness is always going to be negative
    My thinking is that a lean is bad to the extent that it concentrically becomes a hinge.

    Here was one of the earlier squat days of me trying seriously to execute the form correctly at decent weight. I have a really hard time being any more upright than this, though I think bracing is a tad weak here and I've improved that somewhat over time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g0JPcETlwQ
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    My thinking is that a lean is bad to the extent that it concentrically becomes a hinge.

    Here was one of the earlier squat days of me trying seriously to execute the form correctly at decent weight. I have a really hard time being any more upright than this, though I think bracing is a tad weak here and I've improved that somewhat over time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g0JPcETlwQ


    Bar is to high on back for level of lean, needs hips back more and probably jsut lower bar position with your build.

    That line from centre of barbell should bisect your foot
    Stance width is also very narrow here and that may have forced you forward
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post


    Bar is to high on back for level of lean, needs hips back more and probably jsut lower bar position with your build.

    That line from centre of barbell should bisect your foot
    Stance width is also very narrow here and that may have forced you forward
    Yeah, I'm also 20 pounds lighter now.

    Gah, it may be time to go back to experimenting with low bar and wide. I just can't seem to get a natural intuition on this lift. Maybe it'll come with time.

    Sorry OP, didn't mean to derail your thread.
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    All the 'bar over midfoot' talk is fine.

    Except it Litterally CAN'T be over midfoot until the bar weight is enough that it counter balances your body behind midline. Or you fall back or heavily onto your heels.

    Until this point its very very likely the bar will be a few inches Infront of midfoot. Especially with less than favourable squat leverages or ****ty ankle rom

    Lean can also very much very linked to stance width (and toe angle) too...

    Centre of gravity over midfoot

    "lean over more"
    "chest up"
    Spread your knees'
    "be upright"
    All great cues, for the perse needs then to fix their form. TERRIBLE for those that don't.

    Video please.
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    Are you wearing heeled shoes? That can make a big difference. What exactly are your knee issues?
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Are you wearing heeled shoes? That can make a big difference. What exactly are your knee issues?
    I have one leg 1,5 inches longer than the other. Thus my right knee on the longer leg has been taking alot of brunt during my early training career (After which i took a long pause)
    This means my right knee is generally stiff and hurting alot of the time - There's no official diagnosis.

    I have a heel in my shoe to counter act this problem.
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    You apparently skipped over my whole post lol.

    Look up David Woolson squat, he squats well. Lean is perfectly fine as that's what his body sets his style too.
    Look up Jordan feigenbaum too.

    Alternatively Bryce Lewis is much more built to be relatively upright and maintain bar path over mid foot
    My main problem with the broad "traditional" lowbar squat style seems to be that I get very little explosiveness and drive into the movement as well. It just seems like every heavy rep ends up being a grind.

    /watch?v=6pUEVQhPRhM&ab_channel=BrianAlsruhe


    Would you classify this as a lowbar squat?

    (Sorry for the video, but I hope it shows what i mean)

    Could you put some more words into which "style" of body is build for which squat?
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    Originally Posted by Dickling View Post
    My main problem with the broad "traditional" lowbar squat style seems to be that I get very little explosiveness and drive into the movement as well. It just seems like every heavy rep ends up being a grind.



    Would you classify this as a lowbar squat?

    (Sorry for the video, but I hope it shows what i mean)

    Could you put some more words into which "style" of body is build for which squat?
    Link fixed, there are variations among high and low bars and we can all do either.
    But being general, longer femur individuals will suit a wider stance lower bar position more. If you look at Olympic lifters, particularly the super upright Asian lifters they tend to have super short femurs that allow them to be very upright will balanced.

    That's more low bar esque
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    Registered User Dickling's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Link fixed, there are variations among high and low bars and we can all do either.
    But being general, longer femur individuals will suit a wider stance lower bar position more. If you look at Olympic lifters, particularly the super upright Asian lifters they tend to have super short femurs that allow them to be very upright will balanced.

    That's more low bar esque
    Makes sense. I definietly thing that style puts way less stress on my knees, and should probably be the one i default to.

    Do you attempt to create "torque" when you squat lowbar, if that makes sense? Do you do it explosively?
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    Originally Posted by Dickling View Post
    I have one leg 1,5 inches longer than the other. Thus my right knee on the longer leg has been taking alot of brunt during my early training career (After which i took a long pause)
    This means my right knee is generally stiff and hurting alot of the time - There's no official diagnosis.

    I have a heel in my shoe to counter act this problem.
    1.5 inches is a lot. Where does the discrepancy come from? Your shin, your thigh, or does your leg sit lower in the hip?

    When I mentioned heeled shoes I actually meant shoes with additional height under the heel, not to make up a leg length discrepancy, but rather to decrease the amount of ankle dorsiflexion necessary to squat with good form.
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    1.5 inches is a lot. Where does the discrepancy come from? Your shin, your thigh, or does your leg sit lower in the hip?

    When I mentioned heeled shoes I actually meant shoes with additional height under the heel, not to make up a leg length discrepancy, but rather to decrease the amount of ankle dorsiflexion necessary to squat with good form.
    Believe the hip capsual.

    I actually think those soles serve abit of the same purpose as what youre descriping, as they raise my heels a decent amount on both feet, though more on the shorter leg obviously
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