Okay so Ive heard your input and am trying to get to 3500 kcals. However, I am not able to get this from just veggies and whole foods - I am simply not hungry enough, and they fill me up too fast. Im ensuring I hit my minimum fat and protein, and eating 200g of fruits and some veggies daily, but Im eating fatty foods such as salami, choclate milk, pistache nuts, to reach enough kcal since I struggle with eating this many kcals. The whole cardio discussion aside, will this affect my body very negatively? Is this what you would call a dirty bulk? I do roughly keep my kcals in check and not simply eat as much as I can without putting thought into it (even if I did, my appetite is super capped at 3500 kcal), but it is mainly fats...
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09-15-2021, 03:11 AM #31
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09-15-2021, 03:41 AM #32
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09-15-2021, 10:39 AM #33
- Join Date: Apr 2013
- Location: Colorado, United States
- Age: 46
- Posts: 797
- Rep Power: 7452
hate to beat a dead horse (and really that's sick - you shouldnt even beat a live one) BUT......
again - do you use a kitchen scale to WEIGH your food and also track all of your beverages - everything you are going to swallow?
have you used the stickies or a tdee calc to get a good handle on what you need to consume in order to eat maintenance and what an actual surplus would be for you?
if you arent actually aware of the true amount you consume - you could simply be under-eating for you - most people under/over estimate - and without having actual weights of food (not a cup, teaspoon, handful) you cant know what you are consuming, unless you only eat prepackaged and the labels are all *truthful* all of the time.
this could be an easy fix if you just need to eat more - unless you really cant manage to eat enough to grow....
and when you mentioned your average intake before - you said: "Ive kept my nutrition in check, and consistently eat between 2500 to 3200 kcal a day. My average fats are around 95g, protein around 140g, carbs 180g"
thats only 2135 calories....
also - imo - the cardio discussion matters - since you could be doing too much and causing muscle wasting...which means not growing....some people can do hours of cardio/day and still grow - but they are eating enough to overcome what the cardio usesNew Year Fat Loss thread --> https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=180906143&p=1652695513#post1652695513
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start: 248.6 (3/10/21) | bf ~50.0% (9/3/21)
current: 182.2 (1/13/22) | bf 28.6% (1/13/22)
new year cut goal: ~165-170lbs & bf~21-22%
^^^^^^same as long term goal^^^^^^
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09-15-2021, 01:07 PM #34
There’s a theme on the forum…look around
Guys who are not eating are not growing. You cannot be a bear if you eat like a rabbit."A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Old Guy deadlifting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zMrim-0Dks
bench press https://youtu.be/GaRzfueJVJQ
Every workout is GAME DAY!
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09-15-2021, 02:19 PM #35
- Join Date: Apr 2013
- Location: Colorado, United States
- Age: 46
- Posts: 797
- Rep Power: 7452
New Year Fat Loss thread --> https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=180906143&p=1652695513#post1652695513
___________________________________________
start: 248.6 (3/10/21) | bf ~50.0% (9/3/21)
current: 182.2 (1/13/22) | bf 28.6% (1/13/22)
new year cut goal: ~165-170lbs & bf~21-22%
^^^^^^same as long term goal^^^^^^
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09-15-2021, 03:28 PM #36
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09-15-2021, 03:52 PM #37
I too was a hard gainer and plateaued. I couldn't gain weight or strength no matter what past a certain point. Take high bioavailability protein and eat a meal within 45 minutes after workout. Your body chemistry changes during this window enhancing the uptake and use of protein. I did this and ended plateauing for good. Gain after that was based solely on effort.
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09-16-2021, 06:56 AM #38
Thank you for your input. youre right, theyre only up to 2100 kcal - this is because I took the average from the app I use, in which I usually dont fill in my dinner and hence only put in around 2k kcals.
Youre also right that its probably that im not eating enough. It wont be feasible to measure every dinner since my mom cooks and I dont have time to micro manage exactly what she puts in. Nonetheless my appetite is a good enough indicator for only dinner, and it usually sits at around 600-700 kcal. (I measure everything else I eat throughout the day with a scale). I have, as of this thread, begun eating a 4th time and snacking after dinner, hopefully I will start getting stronger soon.
I barely do cardio. I bike 20 mins a day at most, and other than that I have a mostly sedentary lifestyle
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09-16-2021, 07:23 AM #39"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Old Guy deadlifting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zMrim-0Dks
bench press https://youtu.be/GaRzfueJVJQ
Every workout is GAME DAY!
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09-16-2021, 02:21 PM #40
- Join Date: Apr 2013
- Location: Colorado, United States
- Age: 46
- Posts: 797
- Rep Power: 7452
New Year Fat Loss thread --> https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=180906143&p=1652695513#post1652695513
___________________________________________
start: 248.6 (3/10/21) | bf ~50.0% (9/3/21)
current: 182.2 (1/13/22) | bf 28.6% (1/13/22)
new year cut goal: ~165-170lbs & bf~21-22%
^^^^^^same as long term goal^^^^^^
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10-17-2021, 08:47 AM #41
Well, I think today was the first time I looked at my body and thought to myself damn, I have grown. Nonetheless, my weights have not really increased under fierce 5. I think this is a fair time to call it quits (I looked back in my tracking app and completed the fierce 5 workout about 40 times) and look for a different program that might fit my needs better. In particular, I stumbled across 5/3/1 which sounds appealing to me because they focus on volume rather than weight. Especially the "as many reps as you can" seems like a fun way to track/experience my progress since adding weights doesnt do the trick for me. Any thoughts on this program? I found a very helpful guide through reddit: thefitness dot wiki/routines/5-3-1-for-beginners/ (unfortunately for some reason I cant post the link)
Kind regards,
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10-17-2021, 08:53 AM #42"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Old Guy deadlifting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zMrim-0Dks
bench press https://youtu.be/GaRzfueJVJQ
Every workout is GAME DAY!
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10-17-2021, 09:44 AM #43
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10-17-2021, 10:27 AM #44
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10-17-2021, 10:29 AM #45
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10-17-2021, 11:08 AM #46
"You cannot be a bear if you eat like a rabbit." - I had rabbits before my dog killed them all. They ate all the time.
"With a shirt on to the untrained eye, fat's as good as muscle." - muscle costume is better. Or he can buy an XXL hoodie and 4-5 sweaters. He puts all the sweaters on and then the hoodie. He might need some excessive sweating treatment, though.
"I have grown. Nonetheless, my weights have not really increased under fierce 5." - so you put on fat, not muscles. Dirty bulk for the win!
I'll stop at 5 3 1, I can't say anything bad because I don't have Jim Wendler's cool tats. Also, I cannot understand why bald men tend to grow a beard. I'm kidding. Good luck, OP! Push more, eat more! If you cannot push more, push more.
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10-17-2021, 12:05 PM #47
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10-22-2021, 03:14 AM #48
Dont take my advice, I'm just a noob at this point and this is more of a question than a recommendation.
But, since you are gaining weight, it seems that you are eating enough calories. And if your protein intake is really 140 grams per day, then that would be sufficient as well.
I have also read that 'noob gains / beginner gains' come to people even when they are not in caloric surplus. That's called 'body recomposition'. They also say that even when you train 'wrong' as a beginner, that you will still make gains. That's not to say it is 'optimal' though. And seeing that your bodyfat percentage is increasing you wouldn't want to overeat either.
So if above is correct, then you would or will see gains eventually by continuing what you are currently doing. You and me are in the same boat. I'm also training now for about 2 months and see no results yet, but maybe it's just our bodies adapting to the training more slowly than average. First come the neural adaptations, the improvement in technique, then the weight goes up and eventually the muscles start adjusting and growing.
If you reach a plateau in weight, maybe next session drop the weight by 10% and try to get 2-3 more reps in. How many times are you working out per week?
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10-22-2021, 03:48 AM #49
- Join Date: Jan 2007
- Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Posts: 54,513
- Rep Power: 1338185
Newbie gains consist of two different things:
1. unfulfilled potential. As a noob you are the furthest away from your ultimate potential and the further away you are, the more quickly you can make progress. So as you improve, your future progress follows an exponential decay curve. Eventually you can't progress at all despite doing everything optimally... most people never reach this point though.
2. in the short term, there are rapid improvements in strength caused by neural factors - your brain learning how to do the movements better given the muscle tissue it has available. So in the first ~6 weeks of training this will cause rapid increases in performance but not necessarily with corresponding muscle growth (which happens on slower time). These neural factors have a ceiling - and indeed they can drop back again especially if you stop doing a particular exercise for a couple of weeks.
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10-22-2021, 04:04 AM #50
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10-22-2021, 04:12 AM #51
- Join Date: Jan 2007
- Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Posts: 54,513
- Rep Power: 1338185
There are numerous reasons why that can happen. The most common ones are:
- "hard" training is subjective... it could mean going HAM once or twice a week and the rest of the time skipping workouts or half-heartedly training. It is hard to do both volume and intensity consistently over time
- progression: you must progress to make progress (obviously)... but it can be a black art managing progression. Go too hard and you hit a wall, spend too much time doing the same thing and you stagnate.
- measuring results is tricky, especially in the short term. It can be hard to see muscle gain if you aren't lean. Many people have unrealistic expectations of what will happen in a given timeframe.
*edit - re-reading the original post, it looks like the initial problem was a progression issue... starting too heavy.Last edited by SuffolkPunch; 10-22-2021 at 04:22 AM.
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10-31-2021, 06:23 AM #52
Seeing from my Strong application, there has been 1 week since august 1 where I went twice instead of three times. Other than that, consistently 3x a week. (Everytime as hard as I could) I have dropped weights and slowly build back up, yet I can’t progress past the initial barrier. I’m at a loss as to what it could be… I do realize I have a “short” torso and long limbs, also very skinny wrists (16-17 cm), but that shouldn’t affect progression afaik
I’m getting my testosterone and blood checked this Tuesday, maybe I’ll find something thereLast edited by Bremster1; 10-31-2021 at 06:47 AM.
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10-31-2021, 06:37 AM #53
Also a question generally that I’ve been trying to wrapping my head around: why is it that everyone advises starting lower and that that lets you progress faster?
Say you can do an exercise at 20 kg a set amount of times. Why is it that people recommend doing 15 kg one workout, 17,50 the next, 20, 22,5kg and so forth? Wouldn’t doing, for example, 20kg 2 workouts in a row and then going to 22,5kg achieve the same? Both let you tire out your muscles, with the latter option tiring it out even more?
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