Question about intermittent fasting...

[wrestled]

If I understand correctly the body can absorb/process whatever around 30g protein per meal. Also the recomendation is 1g protein per body weight pound, meaning 200lb man eats 200g protein a day. So eating 6 meals at 30g a day is 180g, and you eat inbetween or add a protein shake etc etc to make your 200g.

Now, to intermittent fasting. If you go 16hr fast 8 hours of eating, which is what Im reading is optimal for fat loss and muscle gain, ie lean muscle gain, my question is, because of the fasting state does the body adapt and learn to absorb/process more than the 30g baseline protein per meal? Or do you just have to eat almost 30g per hour during that 8hours of meal times? Or how does this all shake out?

[AdamWW]

The idea that you only absorb 30g of protein is false… you absorb essentially all protein even if it’s in one sitting, it simply moves through your gut slower.

The main reason for multiple meals containing protein is the meal-induced increase in muscle protein synthesis (which you might think of as a ‘signal’ which triggers your body to increase the rate of muscle building) it causes.

So IF is not ideal from a muscle building perspective, but only because it reduces the opportunity to increase synthesis rates…. Not because you don’t ‘absorb’ it.

IF is also not ‘ideal’ for fat loss either… it’s just an eating schedule… that’s it.

No magic, no bells and whistles…

You can eat as early or as late as you want and lose fat.

[Camarija]

The idea that you only absorb 30g of protein is false… you absorb essentially all protein even if it’s in one sitting, it simply moves through your gut slower.

The main reason for multiple meals containing protein is the meal-induced increase in muscle protein synthesis (which you might think of as a ‘signal’ which triggers your body to increase the rate of muscle building) it causes.

So IF is not ideal from a muscle building perspective, but only because it reduces the opportunity to increase synthesis rates…. Not because you don’t ‘absorb’ it.

^
Everything adam said, just adding a study that refutes the idea of a protein absorption ceiling

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10867039/

[wrestled]

The idea that you only absorb 30g of protein is false… you absorb essentially all protein even if it’s in one sitting, it simply moves through your gut slower.

The main reason for multiple meals containing protein is the meal-induced increase in muscle protein synthesis (which you might think of as a ‘signal’ which triggers your body to increase the rate of muscle building) it causes.

So IF is not ideal from a muscle building perspective, but only because it reduces the opportunity to increase synthesis rates…. Not because you don’t ‘absorb’ it.

IF is also not ‘ideal’ for fat loss either… it’s just an eating schedule… that’s it.

No magic, no bells and whistles…

You can eat as early or as late as you want and lose fat.

I was into bodybuilding... not saying I was good but it was my thing.. switched over to crossfit at 38, have made great gains and gotten leaner over the last 5 years or so with it. I'm 44 now and just always looking for a competitive edge. Reading that it boosts your immune system, as well as allegedly some of the big dogs in cf Matt Frazer etc do it or so I'm told so just seeing if maybe I could do more? Right now and forever it seems I've been on the eat every 3 hours kick and I'm solid from it, but again just looking for improvement.

[AdamWW]

I was into bodybuilding... not saying I was good but it was my thing.. switched over to crossfit at 38, have made great gains and gotten leaner over the last 5 years or so with it. I'm 44 now and just always looking for a competitive edge. Reading that it boosts your immune system, as well as allegedly some of the big dogs in cf Matt Frazer etc do it or so I'm told so just seeing if maybe I could do more? Right now and forever it seems I've been on the eat every 3 hours kick and I'm solid from it, but again just looking for improvement.

Fraser isn’t doing IF, you’re thinking about Froning.

Like I said, it doesn’t benefit muscle growth or anything else besides convenience.

As far as your immune system, there is zero connection between IF and having a better immune system. None at all.

Also keep in mind, just because one person does something doesn’t mean THAT is why they were great. 99% of all professional athletes including people in CrossFit do NOT use IF… that should tell you something right there.

Froning is great because of his genetics, training, and work ethic, not because he skips breakfast.

I’m not saying eat every 3 hours, I’m saying that delaying meals and eating in a small window isn’t going to build more muscle….

[snailsrus]

Fraser isn’t doing IF, you’re thinking about Froning.

Like I said, it doesn’t benefit muscle growth or anything else besides convenience.

As far as your immune system, there is zero connection between IF and having a better immune system. None at all.

Also keep in mind, just because one person does something doesn’t mean THAT is why they were great. 99% of all professional athletes including people in CrossFit do NOT use IF… that should tell you something right there.

Froning is great because of his genetics, training, and work ethic, not because he skips breakfast.

I’m not saying eat every 3 hours, I’m saying that delaying meals and eating in a small window isn’t going to build more muscle….

Also the idea you need 1g of protein per lb of body weight really is over kill

I know while intensely training for a powerlifting meet, for myself, IF would be a horrible idea. If anything it would stress my body out and make my immune system worse. When ever I get stressed out physically or emotionally I get sick

[wrestled]

Fraser isn’t doing IF, you’re thinking about Froning.

Like I said, it doesn’t benefit muscle growth or anything else besides convenience.

As far as your immune system, there is zero connection between IF and having a better immune system. None at all.

Also keep in mind, just because one person does something doesn’t mean THAT is why they were great. 99% of all professional athletes including people in CrossFit do NOT use IF… that should tell you something right there.

Froning is great because of his genetics, training, and work ethic, not because he skips breakfast.

I’m not saying eat every 3 hours, I’m saying that delaying meals and eating in a small window isn’t going to build more muscle….

Appreciate the feedback.. what about the claims on boosting test?

[desslok]

Appreciate the feedback.. what about the claims on boosting test?

The only thing I find it does is help with hunger when cutting. Once you get used to skipping breakfast for a few days, its way easier to get used to a couple bigger meals. Plus the convenience. When traveling or working a job on the road etc its nice to know you don’t NEED to eat 6 meals a day like the magazine used to claim the 90s.

[Camarija]

Appreciate the feedback.. what about the claims on boosting test?

In the absence of compelling evidence, and a claim that is counter to common sense, I would say the claim it at best sensational if not completely misleading.

Let's assume that intermittent fasting, the process of limiting your feeding window, miraculously increases your testosterone. At best, the increase would be minimal and temporary. However, the net result would still be negative (suboptimal*) on your physique and strength because you would still be limiting muscle protein synthesis.

Personally, I've tried intermittent fasting on a cut and it was effective at regulating my hunger, however I hypothesize the stress of fasting probably decreases testosterone.

There are benefits to fasting, but as a nutritional strategy it's suboptimal for physique.

[SuffolkPunch]

Appreciate the feedback.. what about the claims on boosting test?

Just to add to what was said above, be careful about examining acute hormone reactions, the body is complex and nuanced. For example, growth hormone also rises when you are fasting - does that mean fasting is anabolic. Nope! Just the GH has roles in energy mobilisation too, you won't be gaining much if any muscle at this time.

[EliKoehn]

The only thing I find it does is help with hunger when cutting. Once you get used to skipping breakfast for a few days, its way easier to get used to a couple bigger meals. Plus the convenience. When traveling or working a job on the road etc its nice to know you don’t NEED to eat 6 meals a day like the magazine used to claim the 90s.

In my experience, this is a great boon to recommend itself, but I view it as a tradeoff in light of the evidence that it's less than ideal for MPS purposes.

I seem to be in the minority with this position, but for me in maintaining a deficit it is much easier to eat, say, a supplemental protein shake sometime during the day and then a legitimate normal sized meal for dinner, than to eat several tiny meals - each one of which usually just feels like a tease and it's not hard to ignore mild hunger and do something else until it's time to eat, at which point I actually become full for several hours.

But I wish it was ideal or completely benign with respect to MPS.

[AdamWW]

Appreciate the feedback.. what about the claims on boosting test?

False

[Mrpb]

^
Everything adam said, just adding a study that refutes the idea of a protein absorption ceiling

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10867039/

Just to inform: studies have shown that a meal with 40 gram protein has the same effect on muscle protein synthesis as a meal with 70 gram. So you can eat more protein in a meal, it just won't build more muscle. Protein spreading is still the way to go.

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-018-0215-1

[AdamWW]

Just to inform: studies have shown that a meal with 40 gram protein has the same effect on muscle protein synthesis as a meal with 70 gram. So you can eat more protein in a meal, it just won't build more muscle. Protein spreading is still the way to go.

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-018-0215-1

Is it accurate to say ‘it won’t build more muscle’ given it appears that proxy measurements for MPS don’t necessarily translate into more net muscle gain?

I feel like I read that not long ago

[Camarija]

Just to inform: studies have shown that a meal with 40 gram protein has the same effect on muscle protein synthesis as a meal with 70 gram. So you can eat more protein in a meal, it just won't build more muscle. Protein spreading is still the way to go.

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-018-0215-1

Thank you! I was watching some lectures last night and heard something like, all the protein is digested, but only the first X amount is used for actual muscle tissue building, the rest is converted. I brushed the comment off at the time thinking to look into it later, so thank you for saving me time!

[paulinkansas]

I take 50 grams of protein each morning in a shake. The name of the hormone precursor shake has been mentioned to death, so I won't mention it.