AEW and breaking the 4th wall

[NorthernLad93]

Anyone else find this **** insulting to their intelligence? When I watch wrestling, I want to believe what I'm seeing is real. That's when you know what you're watching is a high standard. I want to believe these guys really hate each other and are really fighting each other.

I don't want to watch dudes laughing in the ring like buddies, no kayfabe, visibly helping each other perform moves. For every botch, for every spot with no selling after the initial move, for every time dudes spend 5 seconds bunching together like quails waiting for a guy to launch themselves off the turnbuckle, I am reminded that what I'm watching isn't real.

"But everyone knows wrestling isn't real!" neckbeards seethe. But the point is to make the audience believe it is. Anything that disrupts that cheapens the product. I've been watching CM Punk's promos and he's speaking to the audience like he would writers backstage, talking about who he's looking forward to 'working with' - not competing against, not wrestling, not beating the **** out of - 'working'.

Also, social media should be kayfabe, it should be used to sell the product. I don't want to see guys 'in character' on TV and then acting like their regular selves in instagram and Twitter, answering to fans like they're "in the know" about backstage workings.

Thoughts?

[ChristmasFnatic]

I dont watch AEW so I cant comment on that, but Hacksaw Jim Duggan was similar in a lot of his matches. He was going thru the motions, and you know his moves are choreographed. He goes form one spot to the other without checking what his opponent is doing.

[JUSA]

OP can you cite examples?

In general, Yes - I wish they'd all MJF it up a lot more and stay in character and use social media to promote the illusion. I don't do much social media, so it's not effecting me personally, but knowing they break character or pal around and stuff is problematic.

Another topic is the BTE youtube show, I don't really watch it, but it's a weird thing where they break character and work angles at the same time. On one hand they're not 'in character' and are backstage being 'themselves' but they're also setting up angles they do in the show. It's strange. I guess I don't mind it (although the humor is subjective...) because they've found a new way to work people in today's age, which I think with the rabbit out of the hat they kind of have to do this.

Interesting discussion if nothing else.

Why pick on AEW over this, though? Watch 5 minutes of WWE. It's grown adults riding around on scooters, having green slime fights and spraying water pistols. That may be your thing and you may enjoy that, particularly if you are a 5-year old and/or retarded, but it's the furthest thing from reality beyond the handful of Roman Reigns stuff that is actually very good and serious.

[jimbob007]

This is why I don't watch it. Apparently when they had that match in the football stadium they ran some kind of featurette showing you how the stunts people created everything! Meltzer on one of his shows a few weeks back was rating a guy because he can do good cartwheels, not because he can wrestle, has charisma or can cut a promo. If you are a wrestling fan then modern stuff mostly isn't for you-that is why I really only watch some WWE & that is really the guys who work old school psychology & carry themselves like stars such as Reigns, Cena, Lesnar & Drew.

[JUSA]

This is why I don't watch it. Apparently when they had that match in the football stadium...

More power to you, and for the record, I skipped the 2cnd Football Fukery match, did not see any feature about it (actively avoided it if it's true, that is) and such.

AEW has it's issues but at the same time, even the worst of it (which was the early Matt Hardy crap and the Football Fukery stuff), none of it comes close (and this is just my opinion) than the lows of the average Monday Night Raw.



Something about this stuff, and unfortunately with RAW at least there is quite a lot of it, I just hate the world after sitting through it. Maybe it has to do with the way WWE draws things out much slower (3 hours and all). I can watch a horrible Matt Hardy debut, see a spot where the lights go out and he 'teleports' in an empty arena and completely hate it, but it's over with quick enough that I don't have to dwell on it too long. The setup and execution here, of the magical winking doll, while no more stupid than a teleporting Matt Hardy, the whole thing is drawn out so long and WWE isn't course-correcting quickly enough to stop this nonsense that is unwatchable and clearly not getting over with their audience.

[cheerupemokid]

The cooperation thing isn’t just an AEW thing, it’s a modern wrestling thing. More of them grew up playing video games than getting in fights and or doing combat sports. And in terms of kayfabe guys from all different promotions are playing video games together.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about with CM Punk. He said the reason he came back was because the guys in the locker room reminded him of himself and the purpose of facing Darby was to prove to himself that he still has it. Not just to work with him.

And as JUSA said there is literally nothing lamer or more retarded in wrestling than the Alexa and Lilly the magic doll idiocy.

I’d like all wrestling matches to be less cooperative and look more like fights but I’m not holding my breath on that. I don’t really care about the outside the ring stuff, they’re human and you can’t really hide to be yourself in a social media age.

[I3igAl]

Their YouTube show certainely has some guys in character some not, it's weird. On the other WWE's wrestlers are also different people on Twitter, Instagram or Xavier Wood's gaming channel.
The Young Bucks and in recent months Omega and Callis also love to include self aware lines and little Easter Eggs in their promos and dialogue, which sometimes kicks me out of it. Like this week during the Christian/Omega promo, Omega started with the the first sentence of Edge's theme and later explained how he has brothers with him and Christian not. (Edge and Christian were originally billed as brothers.)

Their in-ring matches also include really self-aware spots.

[cheerupemokid]

Their YouTube show certainely has some guys in character some not, it's weird. On the other WWE's wrestlers are also different people on Twitter, Instagram or Xavier Wood's gaming channel.
The Young Bucks and in recent months Omega and Callis also love to include self aware lines and little Easter Eggs in their promos and dialogue, which sometimes kicks me out of it. Like this week during the Christian/Omega promo, Omega started with the the first sentence of Edge's theme and later explained how he has brothers with him and Christian not. (Edge and Christian were originally billed as brothers.)

Their in-ring matches also include really self-aware spots.

I actually thought him reciting the beginning of Edge’s theme song was actually pretty funny and a good taunt since he was saying Christian wasn’t the best in his group without actually referencing a WWE trademarked character.

BTW, Tony Khan has made clear the Young Bucks BTE show isn’t a part of AEW. It’s just a largely a platform for guys to try things out and see if they can create a storyline that will make its way to AEW.

[cgh]

This is why finally after 30+ years I was able to break the habit of watching wrestling.

[SmithMachineGuy]

I don't really watch AEW but it sounds a bunch of guys conning a trust fund baby into hiring their friends.

[jimbob007]

The cooperation thing isn’t just an AEW thing, it’s a modern wrestling thing. More of them grew up playing video games than getting in fights and or doing combat sports. And in terms of kayfabe guys from all different promotions are playing video games together.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about with CM Punk. He said the reason he came back was because the guys in the locker room reminded him of himself and the purpose of facing Darby was to prove to himself that he still has it. Not just to work with him.

And as JUSA said there is literally nothing lamer or more retarded in wrestling than the Alexa and Lilly the magic doll idiocy.

I’d like all wrestling matches to be less cooperative and look more like fights but I’m not holding my breath on that. I don’t really care about the outside the ring stuff, they’re human and you can’t really hide to be yourself in a social media age.

Punk came back because AEW offered him some insane amount of money more than Vince was willing to, he has sat out for so long he was likely running low on money & sees this as his retirement fund.

[jimbob007]

I don't really watch AEW but it sounds a bunch of guys conning a trust fund baby into hiring their friends.

Yep, he wants to hang with the cool kids & sniff their jockstraps. They see him as a money mark.

[jimbob007]

This is why finally after 30+ years I was able to break the habit of watching wrestling.

Amazed it took you that long-I pretty much gave up a decade or so back. Pains me that I would hunt down all sorts of wrestling in the 1990's & a large part of the 2000's & never miss WWF or WCW from 1988 onward, but I will not even watch free wrestling these days-Aces & Eights was really the complete turning point for me.

[jimbob007]

More power to you, and for the record, I skipped the 2cnd Football Fukery match, did not see any feature about it (actively avoided it if it's true, that is) and such.

AEW has it's issues but at the same time, even the worst of it (which was the early Matt Hardy crap and the Football Fukery stuff), none of it comes close (and this is just my opinion) than the lows of the average Monday Night Raw.



Something about this stuff, and unfortunately with RAW at least there is quite a lot of it, I just hate the world after sitting through it. Maybe it has to do with the way WWE draws things out much slower (3 hours and all). I can watch a horrible Matt Hardy debut, see a spot where the lights go out and he 'teleports' in an empty arena and completely hate it, but it's over with quick enough that I don't have to dwell on it too long. The setup and execution here, of the magical winking doll, while no more stupid than a teleporting Matt Hardy, the whole thing is drawn out so long and WWE isn't course-correcting quickly enough to stop this nonsense that is unwatchable and clearly not getting over with their audience.

SummerSlam was a great show-aside from the Alexa match with the doll & the obese sidekick.

[wings_unhinged]

The last WWE show I went to had a guy botch and fall on his ass and the other guy actually helped him up and they moved on from the spot. Lol

[ChristmasFnatic]

The last WWE show I went to had a guy botch and fall on his ass and the other guy actually helped him up and they moved on from the spot. Lol

Which wrestlers? I remember at a house show back in 2016, Charlotte and Sasha were doing the Flair chops on each other. Charlotte stopped and rubbed her boobs and said "that hurts" while smiling. Sasha smiled and said something too. Then continued with their match. I guess they are pretty lax on house shows.

[cheerupemokid]

Punk came back because AEW offered him some insane amount of money more than Vince was willing to, he has sat out for so long he was likely running low on money & sees this as his retirement fund.

They are probably paying him well but he got a couple of huge pay days to get his ass kicked in the UFC and he’s gotten several acting jobs, so I doubt he’s hard up for money.

Also, there are reports WWE brought back Becky and Brock sooner than planned to SD! because Fox was upset the WWE didn’t even make him an offer. So I don’t think there was a bidding war.

[BigDeeps01]

I don't really watch AEW but it sounds a bunch of guys conning a trust fund baby into hiring their friends.

Pretty much this

I like CM Punk but I didn't get a ton out of his return. Seemed very flat to me

[BallGameFan]

Pretty much this

I like CM Punk but I didn't get a ton out of his return. Seemed very flat to me

Agree. He got a pop in his home town in a small arena that sounded loud but his overall impact wont be a whole lot. He low key insulted wwe and tried to drop a mic
bomb. Pretty much did what everyone knew he would. It was bland. He made ratings go up a bit this past week and is selling tshirts. So he moved the needle but it will go back down soon.

[BigDeeps01]

Agree. He got a pop in his home town in a small arena that sounded loud but his overall impact wont be a whole lot. He low key insulted wwe and tried to drop a mic
bomb. Pretty much did what everyone knew he would. It was bland. He made ratings go up a bit this past week and is selling tshirts. So he moved the needle but it will go back down soon.

I think it's too little too late for a lot of people. Plus he looks like absolute ****. He looks small, old, frail

[ChunkBuster]

I think it's too little too late for a lot of people. Plus he looks like absolute ****. He looks small, old, frail

Agree. He hasn’t made any effort with weight lifting. He could have added a little muscle…but no.

He looks like he should be selling hotdogs.

[wings_unhinged]

Which wrestlers? I remember at a house show back in 2016, Charlotte and Sasha were doing the Flair chops on each other. Charlotte stopped and rubbed her boobs and said "that hurts" while smiling. Sasha smiled and said something too. Then continued with their match. I guess they are pretty lax on house shows.

Big E and Gallows in 2017! Definitely more lax at house shows.

[Vpac]

I think it's too little too late for a lot of people. Plus he looks like absolute ****. He looks small, old, frail

This - I don't get it. You've not been active in the ring for so long, but at least get to the gym and lift some weights and look after yourself. Edge came back in good shape. Even Stone Cold still looks as good as ever on his tv show.