Somethings very wrong with my Scapula- Desperately need help (Videos added

[digvijayarya]

Hi All,

First of all I would like to thanks this community, I have learned so much over the years. This is my first post and I am requesting for your help as I am very DESPERATE. Ill try to explain my problem in points

Work in IT with long sitting. Pre COVID used to drive 5+ hours + 9 hour sitting + EVERYDAY workout. I used to be very uncomfortable around my neck & upper back but blamed it on driving.

Post covid- Situation got so bad that I am almost on rest since last 1.5 years. X ray showed straight neck curve but back, spine and hips are all okay. Have taken painkiller almost every single day.

Have visited almost every single PT (10+) and 2 chiro (v v expensive ones) but nothing helped.

Issue is in shoulder blades around scapula -- Left side had lot of PAIN and right side has discomfort. I just feel both sides are completely different (its hard to explain) but it feels very weird. Its constant pain & discomfort and very hard to sleep or focus on anything.

Self diagnosis is "scapular winging" and have worked religiously in Serratus anterior following a Reddit thread and left side has improved a little but not sure if this is right diagnosis.

Right shoulder moves out when doing pushup (specially in close grip)

I apologise if this has gotten long but I have so much problems and its very hard to explain in words. I have added videos doing basic tests that I saw on youtube. I just need some guidance/path.

We dont have good sports PT here in India and i am really really needy for your help guys.

PS: In videos left side has a band aid.

Not able to post links because i dnt have 50 posts. Is there any other way to do this?

[Szyszak]

Hi All,

First of all I would like to thanks this community, I have learned so much over the years. This is my first post and I am requesting for your help as I am very DESPERATE. Ill try to explain my problem in points

Work in IT with long sitting. Pre COVID used to drive 5+ hours + 9 hour sitting + EVERYDAY workout. I used to be very uncomfortable around my neck & upper back but blamed it on driving.

Post covid- Situation got so bad that I am almost on rest since last 1.5 years. X ray showed straight neck curve but back, spine and hips are all okay. Have taken painkiller almost every single day.

Have visited almost every single PT (10+) and 2 chiro (v v expensive ones) but nothing helped.

Issue is in shoulder blades around scapula -- Left side had lot of PAIN and right side has discomfort. I just feel both sides are completely different (its hard to explain) but it feels very weird. Its constant pain & discomfort and very hard to sleep or focus on anything.

Self diagnosis is "scapular winging" and have worked religiously in Serratus anterior following a Reddit thread and left side has improved a little but not sure if this is right diagnosis.

Right shoulder moves out when doing pushup (specially in close grip)

I apologise if this has gotten long but I have so much problems and its very hard to explain in words. I have added videos doing basic tests that I saw on youtube. I just need some guidance/path.

We dont have good sports PT here in India and i am really really needy for your help guys.

PS: In videos left side has a band aid.

Not able to post links because i dnt have 50 posts. Is there any other way to do this?

If it's about scapula issues I think I can help you but need to see photos at least from the back and side

[digvijayarya]

If it's about scapula issues I think I can help you but need to see photos at least from the back and side

I would really appreciate it. I have visited a lot of orthos, PTs but no one is helping me. I ll figure out a way to post videos.

[digvijayarya]

Floor pushups: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1ikoDwVYcC6Rp5eKIgbwdVE0Wr54YGOn3/view?usp=sharing
Arm Raise above httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1QZUpxnB7PAOoFl0wrjralWFi5XmT34Ev/view?usp=sharing

Arm Raise Side: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1RUW9YgS4nHbIuMR9bcXqVjjhNUJO8RED/view?usp=sharing

Scapula retraction: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1RUW9YgS4nHbIuMR9bcXqVjjhNUJO8RED/view?usp=sharing

Arm hold backwards: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1yDJNn-sjlOYKCkDbUhA3py6mSY1Our59/view?usp=sharing

Wall Pushups : httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1A8n7PNph_kqDCMSqksN-kXGMMKqCV5DM/view?usp=sharing

[digvijayarya]

Floor pushups: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1ikoDwVYcC6Rp5eKIgbwdVE0Wr54YGOn3/view?usp=sharing
Arm Raise above httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1QZUpxnB7PAOoFl0wrjralWFi5XmT34Ev/view?usp=sharing

Arm Raise Side: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1RUW9YgS4nHbIuMR9bcXqVjjhNUJO8RED/view?usp=sharing

Scapula retraction: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1RUW9YgS4nHbIuMR9bcXqVjjhNUJO8RED/view?usp=sharing

Arm hold backwards: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1yDJNn-sjlOYKCkDbUhA3py6mSY1Our59/view?usp=sharing

Wall Pushups : httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1A8n7PNph_kqDCMSqksN-kXGMMKqCV5DM/view?usp=sharing

You just have to add :// after https in each of these links.

Also, I want to apologize if I am breaking forum rule by posting links like these but I am really desperate.

[Szyszak]

You just have to add :// after https in each of these links.

Also, I want to apologize if I am breaking forum rule by posting links like these but I am really desperate.

Oh man this is terrible scapula winging. Your rhomboids seems pretty hypertrohpied. Did you have any damage to long thoracic nerve?
Your serratus anterior is both, too long and too weak (not stiff enough). Forget about any exercise which produce scapula retraction. What you need is protraction and upward rotation.
You got to learn how to perform wallslides in correct way just like this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwQE...UCLARecreation

After few sets of this go straight away to make some landmine presses:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCfc...el=EricCressey

Seems like your upper traps also need some work, your shoulderblades should go a little bit more upward while doing side raises. You can tighten them up by doing overhead shrug like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrOl...nel=BrianReddy

It's also about motor control, you got to learn how to use traps to not let your scapula tilt forward while doing eccentric phase of shoulder flexion.

And stop doing scapula retraction exercises, you can actually get a lacross ball and release your rhomboids or visit PT to make them do that for u

[digvijayarya]

Oh man this is terrible scapula winging. Your rhomboids seems pretty hypertrohpied. Did you have any damage to long thoracic nerve?
Your serratus anterior is both, too long and too weak (not stiff enough). Forget about any exercise which produce scapula retraction. What you need is protraction and upward rotation.
You need to learn how perform wallslides in correct way just like this :

After few sets of this go straight away to make some landmine presses:

Seems like your upper traps also need some work, your shoulderblades should go a little bit more upward while doing side raises. You can tighten them up by doing overhead shrug like this:


It's also about motor control, you need to learn how to use traps to not let your scapula tilt forward while doing eccentric phase of shoulder flexion.

And stop doing scapula retraction exercises, you can actually get a lacross ball and release your rhomboids or visit PT to make them do that for u

Thank you so much for getting back brother!

Can you imagine, my PT was making me do band rip aparts (scapular version) 5-6 times a day. It was a video of Athlean x that taught me about winging and training serratus anterior.

Also, I should not be doing any exercise that makes scapula retract ? I was cuing myself for scapula down and retract.

And, can i do these exercise everyday? or maybe multiple times a day ?

EDIT: Is it with both sides or on a single side. I mean to ask should I workout both or just the left one?

[Hypernation]

You may have a lesion/damage to your long thoracic nerve causing serratus anterior muscle paralysis. In this case no amount of PT will fix you. I’d see a neurologist and ask about reputable surgeons.

[digvijayarya]

You may have a lesion/damage to your long thoracic nerve causing serratus anterior muscle paralysis. In this case no amount of PT will fix you. I’d see a neurologist and ask about reputable surgeons.

Surgeon? I will need to go through surgery for this?

How can I have damage to this nerve? I mean would I know if it gets damaged, because I never had any accident..like ever.
I did felt a small tingling while doing shrugs 2-3 years back, I thought it was nothing and continued.

[Hypernation]

Surgeon? I will need to go through surgery for this?

How can I have damage to this nerve? I mean would I know if it gets damaged, because I never had any accident..like ever.
I did felt a small tingling while doing shrugs 2-3 years back, I thought it was nothing and continued.

You may, yes.

There are several causes for a lesion or nerve damage to occur other than trauma. I’m not here to hold a f_ucking lecture.

Get a referral to a neurologist or don’t.
Your call.

[Szyszak]

Thank you so much for getting back brother!

Can you imagine, my PT was making me do band rip aparts (scapular version) 5-6 times a day. It was a video of Athlean x that taught me about winging and training serratus anterior.

Also, I should not be doing any exercise that makes scapula retract ? I was cuing myself for scapula down and retract.

And, can i do these exercise everyday? or maybe multiple times a day ?

EDIT: Is it with both sides or on a single side. I mean to ask should I workout both or just the left one?

I used to have damage to spinal accessory nerve, which remain undiagnosed and untreated for 2 years and yet I receover only by exercises. You simply need to strenghten what's weak. No wonder your shoulder blades sticking out of thorax if u perform band pull apart which highly working the muscles which cause scapula winging and downward rotation syndrome (rhomboids) 5times a day.
Yes in your case you shoudl stay away from retracting shoulder blades together. And never do back and down cue it's not good. All those people who mention back and down are mistaken giving faulcy scapula cue which is terrible especially for those with low shoulders. It can cause thoracic outlet syndrome and other serious symptoms. It's all about slightly elevate shoulders and posterior tilt them.

And of course work out the both sides = )

Try to record yourself how you perform wallslides, with keeping the protraction and post here

[Benchpresser350]

Try very light (less than 45 lb) flat bench pressing once a week, add 1 lb a week and see if the pain goes away in few weeks.

if it does, maybe you can build up your strength to be able to do push ups pain free.

You might feel dumb bench pressing a 20LB bar with 1/2 Lb weights on each end, but it might help strengthen certain muscles.


Also, decide if your Wisdom teeth, or a wisdom tooth is causing the pain because it has not been pulled (if the pain is also in the below ear area).

(That will have to be a self diagnosis based on a likely guess of yes or no coupled with a talk with your dentist).

[digvijayarya]

Thank you so much for getting back brother!

Can you imagine, my PT was making me do band rip aparts (scapular version) 5-6 times a day. It was a video of Athlean x that taught me about winging and training serratus anterior.

Also, I should not be doing any exercise that makes scapula retract ? I was cuing myself for scapula down and retract.

And, can i do these exercise everyday? or maybe multiple times a day ?

EDIT: Is it with both sides or on a single side. I mean to ask should I workout both or just the left one?

I used to have damage to spinal accessory nerve, which remain undiagnosed and untreated for 2 years and yet I receover only by exercises. You simply need to strenghten what's weak. No wonder your shoulder blades sticking out of thorax if u perform band pull apart which highly working the muscles which cause scapula winging and downward rotation syndrome (rhomboids) 5times a day.
Yes in your case you shoudl stay away from retracting shoulder blades together. And never do back and down cue it's not good. All those people who mention back and down are mistaken giving faulcy scapula cue which is terrible especially for those with low shoulders. It can cause thoracic outlet syndrome and other serious symptoms. It's all about slightly elevate shoulders and posterior tilt them.

And of course work out the both sides = )

Try to record yourself how you perform wallslides, with keeping the protraction and post here

Dude you are a godsend! Thank you for your advice.

I researched about long thorasic nerve and found symptoms that match with my problem exactly and the treatment they have given is more or less same what you quoted above.

Few year back I had no idea what an injury can do to you. Physical pain apart it fcks with your psychology, I was deep in depression by not being able to do anything.

I have just one question, should I do only those seratus anterior exercise which moves scapula upwards ? and not do anything that will retract scapula (like push ups, pushup plus etc)

Ill record a wall slide video and share back.

and again I am very grateful for your help.

[Szyszak]

Dude you are a godsend! Thank you for your advice.

I researched about long thorasic nerve and found symptoms that match with my problem exactly and the treatment they have given is more or less same what you quoted above.

Few year back I had no idea what an injury can do to you. Physical pain apart it fcks with your psychology, I was deep in depression by not being able to do anything.

I have just one question, should I do only those seratus anterior exercise which moves scapula upwards ? and not do anything that will retract scapula (like push ups, pushup plus etc)

Ill record a wall slide video and share back.

and again I am very grateful for your help.

Yes dude, avoid squeezing shoulder blades together, you need good scapula control first. Push ups are fine but in your case the scapula goes far away from the thorax in eccentric phase it meanse it works your rhomboids (causing winging - so i would avoid that too)
Any exercise is good which produce upward rotation and protraction. Wall slides are number 1 and number 2 landmine press when you really focus on that reaching forward (protraction). Ovear head shrugs gonna be fine too to wake up those upper traps as well.

[digvijayarya]

Yes dude, avoid squeezing shoulder blades together, you need good scapula control first. Push ups are fine but in your case the scapula goes far away from the thorax in eccentric phase it meanse it works your rhomboids (causing winging - so i would avoid that too)
Any exercise is good which produce upward rotation and protraction. Wall slides are number 1 and number 2 landmine press when you really focus on that reaching forward (protraction). Ovear head shrugs gonna be fine too to wake up those upper traps as well.

Hey brother. Its been 7-8 days since I am working on seratus anterior exercises and I feel significant reduction in pain.

As suggested, I have completely avoided anything that retracts scapula and focused more on upward rotation (saw hell lot of videos on this).

So below, I have linked videos (Please, please add :// after https)

Wall Slide: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1aGD3zTdmYyawnDYOe9WGwUch8tEposLS/view?usp=sharing

Arm raise: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1Adv_n7ASY0j7G3_vRx8apX0-CURA6fdA/view?usp=sharing

I am really looking forward to your feedback.

[Szyszak]

Hey brother. Its been 7-8 days since I am working on seratus anterior exercises and I feel significant reduction in pain.

As suggested, I have completely avoided anything that retracts scapula and focused more on upward rotation (saw hell lot of videos on this).

So below, I have linked videos (Please, please add :// after https)

Wall Slide: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1aGD3zTdmYyawnDYOe9WGwUch8tEposLS/view?usp=sharing

Arm raise: httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1Adv_n7ASY0j7G3_vRx8apX0-CURA6fdA/view?usp=sharing

I am really looking forward to your feedback.

Hey dude I checked the videos, you doing it very good, that's exactly what I meant. You can try a little bit more range of motion (as a progression) by leaning forward as you cannot go with ur arms any higher,

The arm raises doesnt look that good though, your shoulder blades start from winging and u going into excessive retraction. Try to inicitate the movement with protraction just like you do with wall slides. Or just leave this exercise for now and focus on wall slides. If you have access to barbell try landmine press.

If you can post a video how u do over head shrug.

I guess in a month you should rid of any pain and discomfort

[digvijayarya]

Hey dude I checked the videos, you doing it very good, that's exactly what I meant. You can try a little bit more range of motion (as a progression) by leaning forward as you cannot go with ur arms any higher,

Got it! Good tip

Thanks again dude!!

Also, Currently I am doing just this routine (2 times/day)
Wall slides: 3*15
Band protract and external rotate with up movement : 3*10 (I kind of made this exercise but I feel good mind muscle connection with it)
Plank Plus : 3*5-10 (it gets v v difficult)
Overhead shrug: 3*20 (No weight)
Landmine : 3*15 (got a very small barbell, so do it kneeling down)

Should I do anything else? Lower trap, shrugs? face pulls?

Also, attaching video of overhead shrugs (:// missin)

httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1toZ09W34VOtfe8cGW8hnSexNOIuc16au/view?usp=sharing

[Szyszak]

Got it! Good tip

Thanks again dude!!

Also, Currently I am doing just this routine (2 times/day)
Wall slides: 3*15
Band protract and external rotate with up movement : 3*10 (I kind of made this exercise but I feel good mind muscle connection with it)
Plank Plus : 3*5-10 (it gets v v difficult)
Overhead shrug: 3*20 (No weight)
Landmine : 3*15 (got a very small barbell, so do it kneeling down)

Should I do anything else? Lower trap, shrugs? face pulls?

Also, attaching video of overhead shrugs (:// missin)

httpsdrive.google.com/file/d/1toZ09W34VOtfe8cGW8hnSexNOIuc16au/view?usp=sharing

I would stick to this routine for a month and see how it is. If you gonna feel significiant better I would start doing full body workout to keep body healthy.

[digvijayarya]

I would stick to this routine for a month and see how it is. If you gonna feel significiant better I would start doing full body workout to keep body healthy.

Cant believe it.. Really cant believe it!
Since last year I have done everything possible and now I am so close !

Thanks so much man.

[Szyszak]

Cant believe it.. Really cant believe it!
Since last year I have done everything possible and now I am so close !

Thanks so much man.

good job dude, you are on good track, keep it up and let me know how it goes.

[digvijayarya]

good job dude, you are on good track, keep it up and let me know how it goes.

Hi Brother, hope you are doing well.

So, I have been doing this routing religiously every single day. in first 4-5 days, I felt really good like the pain was 70% reduced but since last couple of days i feel that something is going wrong again. I dont feel good.

Am I overdoing things? because now in every exercise I am making resistance high (with bands)
Should I aim for "activating" seratus anterior or "strengthen" it ?

[Szyszak]

Hi Brother, hope you are doing well.

So, I have been doing this routing religiously every single day. in first 4-5 days, I felt really good like the pain was 70% reduced but since last couple of days i feel that something is going wrong again. I dont feel good.

Am I overdoing things? because now in every exercise I am making resistance high (with bands)
Should I aim for "activating" seratus anterior or "strengthen" it ?

Weak muscles have low work capacity that's why it's easy to over worked them. I experienced that when I was fixing my upper traps atrophy. Before I got better i also get worse a bit.

Perhaps you over worked those weak muscles, Try to do it every other day or 3 times a week.



If it comes to serratus anterior it's both to be honest. Let's say someone has strong serratus anterior, but still this muscle is not activate because it's too long (not stiff enough - causing winging)

In this case wall slides are great option becuase u changing the length of the muscle, making it more active in any kind of activity u do, especially in over head movements.

[digvijayarya]

Weak muscles have low work capacity that's why it's easy to over worked them. I experienced that when I was fixing my upper traps atrophy. Before I got better i also get worse a bit.

Perhaps you over worked those weak muscles, Try to do it every other day or 3 times a week.



If it comes to serratus anterior it's both to be honest. Let's say someone has strong serratus anterior, but still this muscle is not activate because it's too long (not stiff enough - causing winging)

In this case wall slides are great option becuase u changing the length of the muscle, making it more active in any kind of activity u do, especially in over head movements.

Thanks man for getting back. I m just getting paranoid.

Yesterday night was too painful and today morning, I dont know what happened but the mind muscle connection just lost, i was able to feel seratus firing (in left side) till yesterday... like you get a pump in biceps but today i cant feel a thing.

Ill take it down, probably to 3-4 movements every other day as you suggested.

Also, what is your advice on foam rolling this area?

[Szyszak]

Thanks man for getting back. I m just getting paranoid.

Yesterday night was too painful and today morning, I dont know what happened but the mind muscle connection just lost, i was able to feel seratus firing (in left side) till yesterday... like you get a pump in biceps but today i cant feel a thing.

Ill take it down, probably to 3-4 movements every other day as you suggested.

Also, what is your advice on foam rolling this area?

Releasing tight muscles mostly rhomboids gonna be beneficial, if those muscles calm down it will be easier to feel serratus working. Some stretching would be also good, you can find how to stretch rhomboids on youtube dude.

[digvijayarya]

Releasing tight muscles mostly rhomboids gonna be beneficial, if those muscles calm down it will be easier to feel serratus working. Some stretching would be also good, you can find how to stretch rhomboids on youtube dude.

Got it! Thanks again man.

Also, since you yourself has recovered from something like this, Can you recommend to a PT or someone that you went to who can take an online consultation.
I visited a doc yesterday (v experienced) and he said there is nothing like scapular winging and its all because of straightening of my neck. He simply refused it. I have lost trust in doctors in India now.

[Szyszak]

Got it! Thanks again man.

Also, since you yourself has recovered from something like this, Can you recommend to a PT or someone that you went to who can take an online consultation.
I visited a doc yesterday (v experienced) and he said there is nothing like scapular winging and its all because of straightening of my neck. He simply refused it. I have lost trust in doctors in India now.

Yeah doctors even PT are useless I am not saying all of them though maybe it was just me who had no luck, I know it by my own experience. What's more funny they way they treated me was completly opposite to the treatment i needed. They made me feel worse so yeah i also lost trust in them. Becuase of my many injuries I experienced started from shoulder end on low back problem and thoracic outlet syndrome - I tried trails and errors before I found out what really works and how to diagnose that kind of stuff. Basically static positions tells a lot who muscles you use more than others and symptoms u experience are the most important.

Some people also over react if it comes to posture. Forward head posture, straight neck - those things doesnt really matter that much, it just put more stress on the muscle which stabilize the spine which is fine if they work properly. Lots of old people have terrible neck position and yet 0 symptoms because of it.

But once you felt better for few days it means you are on good track to finally fix the problem. It might take a while to correct it , since for many months u were doing things which u should avoid like band pull apart - squeezing shoulder blades together etc. If you want to read more about scapula winging here is a good source to look at:

https://b-reddy.org/musings-on-scapu...onsiderations/

[digvijayarya]

Yeah doctors even PT are useless I am not saying all of them though maybe it was just me who had no luck, I know it by my own experience. What's more funny they way they treated me was completly opposite to the treatment i needed. They made me feel worse so yeah i also lost trust in them. Becuase of my many injuries I experienced started from shoulder end on low back problem and thoracic outlet syndrome - I tried trails and errors before I found out what really works and how to diagnose that kind of stuff. Basically static positions tells a lot who muscles you use more than others and symptoms u experience are the most important.

Some people also over react if it comes to posture. Forward head posture, straight neck - those things doesnt really matter that much, it just put more stress on the muscle which stabilize the spine which is fine if they work properly. Lots of old people have terrible neck position and yet 0 symptoms because of it.

But once you felt better for few days it means you are on good track to finally fix the problem. It might take a while to correct it , since for many months u were doing things which u should avoid like band pull apart - squeezing shoulder blades together etc. If you want to read more about scapula winging here is a good source to look at:

This was very informative, I was fussing about lateral winging or medial winging but it turns out in both cases traps and serratus is involved.

Also, they mention to take it very slow (conservatively) till their is any pain and then try to strengthen.

and buddy, Kudos to you for figuring all this out on your own. I can understand that frustration when your body is telling something but neither you can understand it nor any doc listens to you.

[Szyszak]

This was very informative, I was fussing about lateral winging or medial winging but it turns out in both cases traps and serratus is involved.

Also, they mention to take it very slow (conservatively) till their is any pain and then try to strengthen.

and buddy, Kudos to you for figuring all this out on your own. I can understand that frustration when your body is telling something but neither you can understand it nor any doc listens to you.

Yes but i think he mean extreme cases and kinda older people. Everyone start from different level. If you can do the movements pain free, of course you gonna fix the issue faster than someone who suffer for years.

Yup traps are highly involved in case of scapular winging. If shoulder is dropped down by tight pec minor, dominant lats and rhomboids it can also shut down the proper function of serratus anterior. In this case u want to learn how to gently elevate and posterior tilt the shoulder how to use the traps to combat stiff muslces which bring your shoulders down. That's why I also mention about over head shrug. You can also try normal version with 30 degree abduction whatever works better for you cause we are all different.

[digvijayarya]

Yes but i think he mean extreme cases and kinda older people. Everyone start from different level. If you can do the movements pain free, of course you gonna fix the issue faster than someone who suffer for years.

Yup traps are highly involved in case of scapular winging. If should is dropped down by tight pec minor, dominant lats and rhomboids it can also shut down the proper function of serratus anterior. In this case u want to learn how to gently elevate and posterior tilt the shoulder how to use the traps to combat stiff muslces which bring your shoulders down. That's why I also mention about over head shrug. You can also try normal version with 30 degree abduction whatever works better for you cause we are all different.

Wow dude, good point.

May I ask what do you do professionally? because you really know all this.

[digvijayarya]

Yes but i think he mean extreme cases and kinda older people. Everyone start from different level. If you can do the movements pain free, of course you gonna fix the issue faster than someone who suffer for years.

Yup traps are highly involved in case of scapular winging. If shoulder is dropped down by tight pec minor, dominant lats and rhomboids it can also shut down the proper function of serratus anterior. In this case u want to learn how to gently elevate and posterior tilt the shoulder how to use the traps to combat stiff muslces which bring your shoulders down. That's why I also mention about over head shrug. You can also try normal version with 30 degree abduction whatever works better for you cause we are all different.

Hi bro, how are you doing?

So, I have been reading a lot about it and I came across this site which has Q&A on serratus anterior (://wwwmissing after https)

https.rehabtrainer.com.au/cafe/answers-to-cutting-edge-shoulder-quiz

I feel that (in my case) scapula is already moved away from centre and winged towards shoulder cap, shouldnt I focus more on bringing it back rather than doing exercises that create upward rotation.

Also, I have zero trouble in taking hand above or across or sideways (I mean pain wise).

Also, I dnt know what happened but I lost complete mind muscle with serratus and have been in constant pain. Depression kicks in as soon as this happens.