When do you think the crazy car market will settle down?

**greenleaf** · 06-23-2022, 04:48 AM

Musk says Tesla’s factories in Berlin and Texas are ‘gigantic money furnaces’

Tesla’s factories in Texas and Berlin are losing “billions of dollars right now” as supply chain disruptions hamper the electric vehicle giant’s ability to ramp up production, CEO Elon Musk said.

“Both Berlin and Austin factories are gigantic money furnaces right now. Okay? It should be like a giant roaring sound which is the sound of money on fire,” Musk said.

He said some of the tools required to make some cars are “stuck in a port in China” because of a resurgence of Covid there and the resulting lockdowns.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/23/musk...f-dollars.html

**Midgetkiller** · 06-27-2022, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by ymer

Bumping this post in 4 months.

Order dates up in 2024 already, heading steadily towards 2025.

I'm pretty sure my post is safe. Keep sniffing that hopium.

**greenleaf** · 06-29-2022, 09:56 AM

Bye bye old school stealership and markup BS?

Ford’s Talk of New EV-Selling Rules Rattles Some Dealers

Ford Motor Co. is preparing new rules for how it sells electric vehicles, a shift that is concerning some dealers and seen as challenging the traditional franchise model.

Executives from the Detroit giant have alluded to such changes for months, highlighting a future with less inventory on the dealer lot, more online transacting, no-haggle pricing and an increased focus on dealerships as service and repair centers. Ford plans to release its new EV-selling rules in September.

As executives at other auto makers have discussed using the switch to EVs as a way to revamp how cars are sold, Ford Chief Executive Jim Farley has been among the more vocal. At a Bernstein investor conference earlier this month, he talked about keeping zero inventory at dealers and sales being 100% online.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fords-t...rs-11656504003

**MikeLowrrrey** · 06-29-2022, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Midgetkiller

Order dates up in 2024 already, heading steadily towards 2025.

I'm pretty sure my post is safe. Keep sniffing that hopium.

So the middle class joe won't be able to get the car they want at a cheaper price because of big corps buying all of em up. Fuark. Surely it can't be every car though? I imagine pickup trucks and standard base model cars like 3 series are what companies are going after. What about performance like M, AMG, Scat Pack, etc.?

**Destor** · 06-29-2022, 02:15 PM

Yeah I don't see this benefitting the consumer, these companies do not do things like this to benefit the consumer

It just means the manufacturers will have more control over the price increases and will play with that to jack up their own profits rather than dealers getting a slice. To use Tesla as an example, a Model Y LR ordered through their site has gone from $49,900 to $65,990 in 14 months

**Krackerjacked** · 06-29-2022, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Destor

Yeah I don't see this benefitting the consumer, these companies do not do things like this to benefit the consumer

It just means the manufacturers will have more control over the price increases and will play with that to jack up their own profits rather than dealers getting a slice. To use Tesla as an example, a Model Y LR ordered through their site has gone from $49,900 to $65,990 in 14 months

Agreed
No more rebates to move the leftover models.
Just here’s the price you get to pay, order it and it’ll be available in x months

**Destor** · 06-29-2022, 09:02 PM

^^ Exactly, hopefully service doesn’t take a hit across the brands

Almost thinking I’m seeing the first hints of demand dropping. Today I got got an email from a brand advertising inventory vehicles for people who might have outstanding orders and want to get a vehicle right now.

I was looking at Tesla’s used inventory and blown away by how many are in stock

https://www.tesla.com/inventory/used...=plh&zip=95113

**greenleaf** · 06-30-2022, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Destor

Yeah I don't see this benefitting the consumer, these companies do not do things like this to benefit the consumer

It just means the manufacturers will have more control over the price increases and will play with that to jack up their own profits rather than dealers getting a slice. To use Tesla as an example, a Model Y LR ordered through their site has gone from $49,900 to $65,990 in 14 months

I don't have a problem with it as long as it's reasonable because I absolutely hate talking to dealers and having to go through a lot of BS to buy a car.

**Midgetkiller** · 07-01-2022, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by MikeLowrrrey

So the middle class joe won't be able to get the car they want at a cheaper price because of big corps buying all of em up. Fuark. Surely it can't be every car though? I imagine pickup trucks and standard base model cars like 3 series are what companies are going after. What about performance like M, AMG, Scat Pack, etc.?

Performance cars are already very inflated. The level below that is pushing those prices up. Every EV is having slow delivery because of the difficulties mining new cobalt. So gas/diesel is being made expensive and obsolete through economic and political pressure. So supply is limited for the new coveted vehicles making em more expensive, traditional vehicles will maybe lower in price but become more expensive to use either way. And still the limited supply of new vehicles will keep fukking over the second hand market.

And yes middle class joe is getting fukked royally both in the car market AND the housing market.

I'm getting bonusses and tax breaks up the wazoo for a ridiculously expensive BMW i4 and thus making it cheaper for me than the smallest BMW/Audi on gas or diesel. Meanwhile people are struggling to pay for both electrical bills and gas bills. It's starting to become retarded.

**greenleaf** · 07-03-2022, 04:06 AM

They can't even get the cars on to the boats to US LOL...

There’s a massive pile-up of car, furniture exports bound for U.S. and it’s spreading across European ports

Labor slowdowns and strikes are crippling container trade at both German and Netherland ports.

The backlog of containers will take months to clear out.

Labor slowdowns and strikes at the German and Netherland ports are creating a massive pile-up of export containers bound for the U.S. that will take months to clear out.

According to the bills of lading found through ImportGenius, some of the items that are exported out of these ports are critical components to the auto sector like lithium batteries, fully assembled automobiles, as well as a wide variety of auto parts, and chassis. Mercedes, BMW, and Ford were listed in recent U.S. Customs filings.

“U.S. importers need to look four to five weeks in advance to see if there is a vessel available,” said Andreas Braun, Europe, Middle East, and Africa ocean product director of Crane Worldwide Logistics. “This is not normal. Also, if you are lucky to book a slot on a vessel you then have to locate an empty container which can be in the hinterland.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/01/mass...or-strife.html

**5x10** · 07-03-2022, 09:00 AM

Watched a YouTube video that claimed that annual repos total 1.8 million (pre covid, on avg)

This year, we are at 2.2 million through June
Said the bank has thousands of cars but are only releasing 100s to the auctions , as not to flood them with supply

**freeburn** · 07-03-2022, 09:44 AM

I was fairly surprised when subaru told me I can order a 2022 wrx at msrp and it will arrive within 2 months

Brz was still a 6 month wait but at msrp

Toyota wanted a 2k markup on a gr86

I would love to wait for a gr Carolla but I have a feeling the markup will be even worse and probably even harder to obtain

**greenleaf** · 07-03-2022, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by freeburn

Toyota wanted a 2k markup on a gr86

I would love to wait for a gr Carolla but I have a feeling the markup will be even worse and probably even harder to obtain

Go to a no markup dealer srs. They are out there.

Example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/rav4club/co...adding_markup/

**greenleaf** · 07-05-2022, 09:19 AM

Still too many ballers chasing too little inventory...

Luxury car buyers shell out more than ever with ‘car payments that look more like mortgage payments’

And still, luxury shoppers are flocking to dealerships, willing to spend more on high-end cars and the financing to go along with them.

For the first time, just over 12% of consumers who financed a new car in June committed to a monthly payment of $1,000 or more — the highest level on record — compared to 7.3% one year ago, Edmunds found.

“Although there appears to be a steady stream of affluent consumers willing to commit to car payments that look more like mortgage payments, for most consumers the new car market is growing increasingly out of reach,” Caldwell said.

With the lucrative luxury SUV segment in high demand, more car makers are upgrading their lineups and scaling back on smaller cars, Caldwell noted.

“There aren’t a lot of options on the lower end.”

Factoring in near-record high gas prices, the problem of affordability isn’t expected to improve anytime soon, she added.

Typically, dealers offer some incentives to unload excess inventory before new models hit the lot, but not this year.

“Don’t expect a lot of end-of summer sales; there’s really no inventory to clear out at this point,” Caldwell said. “If you want to wait for prices to get better, it will probably be a while.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/05/luxu...osts-rise.html

**R3L3NTL3SS** · 07-05-2022, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by freeburn

I was fairly surprised when subaru told me I can order a 2022 wrx at msrp and it will arrive within 2 months