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  1. #1
    Registered User bgr302's Avatar
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    What’s everyone’s thoughts on the covid vaccine

    I’m leaning towards it but I’m torn….
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  2. #2
    Registered User F1exAppeal's Avatar
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    Finally. I've been waiting for a vaccine thread for ages.
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    Walk into the cage and eat the cheese like a good lobby lab rat.

    If you don't get it now, don't worry, you won't miss your chance and it'll be mandatory again next covid season.
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    well the goalposts keep moving, and i'm fairly certain we're heading towards the "take two booster shots per year or get kicked out of society" dystopia if people keep pushing the vaccines this hard

    the thing is, we're dealing with an insanely mild virus when it comes to mortality rates, yet the life ruining measures imply it's ebola 2.0
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    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    I'm obviously in favor of it based on my other thread. Happy to address any non-conspiracy based legitimate questions/concerns.
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    Registered User qtpiee's Avatar
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    The propaganda, censorship, and division created scares me and I hate how politicized it’s become. At work only the vaccinated have gotten sick recently and everyone is still forced to wear masks. I’ve become pretty upset as being treated like a monster for not getting the shot and now I’m going to lose my job because of it and I’m okay with that. I think I’m young, healthy, and I don’t need it. I’ll take my chances
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    Registered User paulinkansas's Avatar
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    My official day job is working in a medical clinic. Got the Moderna 12/23 and the 2nd shot 4 weeks later. It's a pretty easy job. I just sit at a desk and post polls in online forums all day. Every now and then I have to do a drug screen for a refinery contractor. When I'm not at my official "work" I'm really working at my side hustle which is my real work.
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    Originally Posted by qtpiee View Post
    The propaganda, censorship, and division created scares me and I hate how politicized it’s become. At work only the vaccinated have gotten sick recently and everyone is still forced to wear masks. I’ve become pretty upset as being treated like a monster for not getting the shot and now I’m going to lose my job because of it and I’m okay with that. I think I’m young, healthy, and I don’t need it. I’ll take my chances
    100% this. god knows how many people we've killed every flu season, yet now even with the vaccines you're treated like a monster if you don't take it, just because you might end up killing someone who's double vaxxed

    people tell you to trust the science, but think about the pcr tests for example... iirc elon musk did 4 of them in a row, and only half of them came back positive. later something about it was revealed (can't remember what exactly) that proved they were pretty misleading. vaccines were supposed to give herd immunity @ 70% vaccination rate too, then it was 90%, but even some places with +90% rate don't have it. it was supposed to be two jabs, now we're looking at three minimum. my problem with this is that the goalposts keep moving time after time, and people act like you're a conspiracy theorist antivaxxer monster if you don't play this goalpost chasing game

    i believe the vaccine itself is safe, but all these things surrounding it are not okay, thus i won't be taking it just to avoid supporting this chit
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  9. #9
    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Faithbrah, I appreciate your perspective. Just gonna respond to a couple of points if I may...

    Originally Posted by faithbrah View Post
    people tell you to trust the science, but think about the pcr tests for example... iirc elon musk did 4 of them in a row, and only half of them came back positive. later something about it was revealed (can't remember what exactly) that proved they were pretty misleading.
    The PCR tests are pretty accurate with good samples, but unfortunately sample collection can be a big problem. If you don't get a good sample you can have a false negative. False positives are quite rare with PCR. I also suspect some people with COVID-19 who do not have many nasal symptoms are not going to have much if any virus in their nasal mucosa, and for them it is not going to be picked up with PCR.

    vaccines were supposed to give herd immunity @ 70% vaccination rate too, then it was 90%, but even some places with +90% rate don't have it.
    The number increased due to the Delta variant; it's much more contagious than prior variants (2-3x more contagious from estimates I've seen) so the numbers for herd immunity increase. Places with 90%+ should be close to herd immunity or at it, I'm curious if travel into/out of those places would prevent that. I haven't seen data specifically on any locations with 90%+ vaccination rates that evaluate this.

    it was supposed to be two jabs, now we're looking at three minimum.
    I would argue we are not looking at 3 minimum, at least not yet. Perhaps at some point if there is a booster made that also specifically covers the Delta and other variants. Right now the initial 2 doses still do a very good job of protecting against severe disease. There are no recommendations to my knowledge for people to get booster doses. A recommendation just came out for immunocompromised people to get a 3rd dose, but they clearly represent a different scenario.

    my problem with this is that the goalposts keep moving time after time, and people act like you're a conspiracy theorist antivaxxer monster if you don't play this goalpost chasing game
    Part of the goalpost shifting, besides the new variant(s), is the nature of science itself. We do experiments or observational studies, collect data, and then derive new conclusions to inform future decisions. Through in changes in public health measures and new variants and it should be expected for some things to change over time.

    i believe the vaccine itself is safe, but all these things surrounding it are not okay, thus i won't be taking it just to avoid supporting this chit
    That's your choice and I respect it. I do wish there was less vitriol in general on all sides. I'm really curious how differently things would have played out if Trump had touted the vaccines as one of his greatest achievements, gotten them in public, and emphasized to everyone this was our greatest weapon to end the pandemic.
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  10. #10
    Registered User Omni's Avatar
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    I am obviously pro vaccine and I believe any vaccine is better than being unvaccinated at this point. Here's an interesting study on the new breakthrough cases of Moderna vs. Pfizer showing that Moderna is possibly offering higher protection against Delta: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....06.21261707v1 , I'd love to hear your thoughts on this Heisman.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    I am obviously pro vaccine and I believe any vaccine is better than being unvaccinated at this point. Here's an interesting study on the new breakthrough cases of Moderna vs. Pfizer showing that Moderna is possibly offering higher protection against Delta: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....06.21261707v1 , I'd love to hear your thoughts on this Heisman.
    It's interesting. The general thoughts on that are:
    1. Moderna has a higher dose than Pfizer so possibly could yield better protection, though this was not seen against initial variants. Same thing with the 4 week vs 3 week interval between vaccines for Moderna and Pfizer, respectively.
    2. Pfizer requires colder storage temperatures so there is more opportunity for something to go wrong and the vaccine to not be as effective.
    3. Pfizer was rolled out earlier than Moderna so the immune response may be wearing off earlier. It also was likely given to more of the at risk populations. They somewhat state they correct for this in that study but it's not clear if they do a full job of doing this.

    Thus based on point 3 above the differences could be a result of sampling. We'll see if the protection from Moderna decreases substantially against Delta in the coming weeks. Regardless, there is still very good protection against severe disease, which is the most important thing clinically.
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  12. #12
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    My thoughts: it's a vaccine...

    I got it.. 95% of people I know have gotten it...


    It sucks that it had to be released during the Trump era when misinformation and anti-science rhetoric is the new 'thing to do', that's for sure.

    The fact that it's turned into a political tool is stupid.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Faithbrah, I appreciate your perspective. Just gonna respond to a couple of points if I may...
    good points. i think iceland and gibraltar had 90-something vaccination rate, yet iceland is still locking down. personally i don't have any "political cards" in the game, it's mostly just the irrationality when we look at the statistics

    another issue i didn't mention is that here in scandinavia, we have like 600-1000 cases per day and our hospitals don't have any issues. what do we do? put restrictions in place despite healthcare being completely fine. people aren't dying or getting hospitalized, so why do we still keep doing this? granted our measures have never been that strict, but they're still an inconvenience to many people here. there have also been news about florida and some other hospitals overflowing with covid patients, and apparently people have driven there to check it out themselves - empty. any thoughts on this?

    fair enough, there isn't any concrete evidence about additional booster shots yet, but what would your opinion be if we ended up needing to take two per year, or we can't go to the store, gym or bar? what about vaccine passports and literally having the police ask for proof of vaccination when you're eating outside in a restaurant venue? what about nearly zero hospitalizations and deaths and still keeping up restrictions? what about the cons of lockdowns (ex. alcoholism, drug problems, mental health problems, increased domestic violence, increased suicide rates etc.)?

    ^ i'm not trying to make an argument for anything really, those are just genuine questions and i'm interested in hearing your and everyone else's thoughts on them. it seems like way too many people (not you obviously) are tunnel visioning on preventing covid deaths at any cost. it's like these people are fine with 30 children starving to death in africa if it means saving an 80 year old who only has a few years to live anyway
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    I'm not gonna ever get it no matter what
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Part of my responsibilities in my job is to do the timekeeping for staff. I've booked days off for one staff for covid (I'm informed by my manager and by employee wellness) and 3-4 staff for vaccine side effects (self-reported). It hasn't been a scheduling nightmare but it was a bit annoying.
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    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by faithbrah View Post
    good points. i think iceland and gibraltar had 90-something vaccination rate, yet iceland is still locking down. personally i don't have any "political cards" in the game, it's mostly just the irrationality when we look at the statistics

    another issue i didn't mention is that here in scandinavia, we have like 600-1000 cases per day and our hospitals don't have any issues. what do we do? put restrictions in place despite healthcare being completely fine. people aren't dying or getting hospitalized, so why do we still keep doing this? granted our measures have never been that strict, but they're still an inconvenience to many people here.
    I don't see any purpose in locking anything down if we do not need to worry about the healthcare system being overwhelmed. In my mind that was always the point of the lockdowns; to prevent that from happening. I guess you can make an argument that even if hospitals are fine if all measures were relaxed then they would get overwhelmed, but locking anything down for the sake of just preventing all transmission doesn't make any sense to me. We don't do that for any other illness.

    there have also been news about florida and some other hospitals overflowing with covid patients, and apparently people have driven there to check it out themselves - empty. any thoughts on this?
    There are definitely hospitals that are being overwhelmed in recent times (Missouri, Arkansa, now some pediatric ICUs in Texas). Nobody can just drive to a hospital and see how busy it is; at least where I have worked you cannot just walk up to a hospital floor to see what's going on. You need to be on a patient's list as someone who is allowed to come in, and in a lot of these hospitals with COVID-19 wards or at least sections for COVID-19 there are not any visitors allowed.

    fair enough, there isn't any concrete evidence about additional booster shots yet, but what would your opinion be if we ended up needing to take two per year, or we can't go to the store, gym or bar? what about vaccine passports and literally having the police ask for proof of vaccination when you're eating outside in a restaurant venue? what about nearly zero hospitalizations and deaths and still keeping up restrictions? what about the cons of lockdowns (ex. alcoholism, drug problems, mental health problems, increased domestic violence, increased suicide rates etc.)?
    I have no issue with 2 being recommended yearly if the science indicates that. I do not agree with requiring it. At this point I think all of us should continue to engage in various precautions (ie, wearing masks) because children still have not had the opportunity to be vaccinated, but once everyone has the chance to be vaccinated then I don't see any purpose in requiring anything. As long as the vaccines continue to work really well to prevent severe infection, let people who want to get the vaccines get them and let everyone else do as they wish. I think lockdowns overall did a lot of unmeasured harm and it will be interesting for the epidemiologists to try to tease out how much benefit vs harm was done over the next several years.

    ^ i'm not trying to make an argument for anything really, those are just genuine questions and i'm interested in hearing your and everyone else's thoughts on them. it seems like way too many people (not you obviously) are tunnel visioning on preventing covid deaths at any cost. it's like these people are fine with 30 children starving to death in africa if it means saving an 80 year old who only has a few years to live anyway
    Yeah, agreed. The other argument one can make globally is that by allowing it to continue to spread there are more opportunities for more dangerous variants to arise, but the real way to work on that is to increase vaccine delivery to underdeveloped countries with poor supply chains.
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    Had a talk with a Dr on the subject and he is vehemently against vaccine cards/passports, and lays out that after a few months post infection, natural immunity provides a better immune response (duh, right?) than the vaccines could. He did state that so far they are seeing that the vaccines provide a faster immune response a few months after injection.

    My question to him was, “why no consideration for those who were already infected? Why the push for 100% rates?”

    He said he would be all in favor of turning the vaccine cards into “immunity cards” and having verified infection(s) info on them. I could get on board with that especially with the tyrannical chit some governments are pushing.
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  18. #18
    Registered User CommitmentRulz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    The PCR tests are pretty accurate with good samples, but unfortunately sample collection can be a big problem. If you don't get a good sample you can have a false negative. False positives are quite rare with PCR. I also suspect some people with COVID-19 who do not have many nasal symptoms are not going to have much if any virus in their nasal mucosa, and for them it is not going to be picked up with PCR.
    PCR accurate? Really? Perhaps you missed the fact that the CDC is dropping the using that test (https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2...Testing_1.html) because ii doesn't, will not, and NEVER has differentiated between Covid and the flu.

    Is it Covid or is it the flu? PCR test: Yes.
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    PCR accurate? Really? Perhaps you missed the fact that the CDC is dropping the using that test (https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2...Testing_1.html) because ii doesn't, will not, and NEVER has differentiated between Covid and the flu.

    Is it Covid or is it the flu? PCR test: Yes.
    Reading through the link it seems they are dropping it and encouraging a multiple text that tests for COVID-19 and the flu at the same time. Pretty sure that means it can differentiate between COVID-19 and the flu. Regardless, I'm not addressing conspiracies in this thread, and the thread is about the vaccine, not PCR testing.
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    PCR accurate? Really? Perhaps you missed the fact that the CDC is dropping the using that test (https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2...Testing_1.html) because ii doesn't, will not, and NEVER has differentiated between Covid and the flu.

    Is it Covid or is it the flu? PCR test: Yes.
    Lol, not even close. The CDC withdrew their request to the FDA for EAU of a PCR assay because higher-throughput and multiplexed assays were developed and vetted. At no point were influenza infections giving false positives for covid pcr tests.
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