How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[thedickus]

Easy answer, no one goes to heaven. Heaven is where god lives. Jesus was an apocalyptical jewish rabbi. Jews don't believe in an afterlife. The believe you become worm food. Jesus was a different in that he thought that god would make a paradise for people that went to god here on Earth. All non believers would be consumed in fire and evil would be defeated. All of the bible versus the OP's original post is referencing are from Paul, someone that never even met Jesus or heard him preach. Actually Romans is from Paul, Ephesians and Hebrews are forged/pseudepigrapha. Paul taught things in start contrast to what Jesus preached. Jesus believed not in salvation, but in keeping the laws.

[OldFartTom]

I don't agree.
We're told (interpretations of numbers differ...) 144,000 can go to heaven. Who does or doesn't qualify and is is 12,000 or 144,000 is quite a debate but however you slice and dice the Bible, the answer can't be "no one"

If we **assume** Heaven is a place on clouds where people sit playing harps wearing white robes then maybe the answer would be nobody, or perhaps a subset of the most faithful of the Jewish people.

But if we read the original post in plain English and not try to descend into some kind of academic quibbling and theology, I personally (IMHO) read the question of the post with "Heaven" being synonymous to the Kingdom of God.

But yes, point taken, the New Jerusalem/New Earth is described and I also use the word "Heaven" to describe that when discussing this in plain English.

If we do that (which not everyone will) then the answer would be to get to "Heaven" you need to accept in your heart that Jesus is your Saviour.

Does it need to be any more complicated?

[thedickus]

But yes, point taken, the New Jerusalem/New Earth is described and I also use the word "Heaven" to describe that when discussing this in plain English.

If we do that (which not everyone will) then the answer would be to get to "Heaven" you need to accept in your heart that Jesus is your Saviour.

Does it need to be any more complicated?

Yes it does. Jesus never taught that you had to accept him as your savior. He never believed that's what he was. He taught you needed to keep the laws and have faith in god. Whoever wrote the book of John, and Paul (plus whoever wrote the six disputed Pauline epistles) wrote the crap about Jesus being a savior.

[supramax]

Yes it does. Jesus never taught that you had to accept him as your savior. He never believed that's what he was. He taught you needed to keep the laws and have faith in god. Whoever wrote the book of John, and Paul (plus whoever wrote the six disputed Pauline epistles) wrote the crap about Jesus being a savior.

It's the same with Buddhism (and likely every other organized religion) There's a **** ton of stuff attributed to the Buddha that couldn't possibly have come out of his mouth.

[ScottLefler]

Study the historical writings regarding Christ.

[thedickus]

Study the historical writings regarding Christ.

LOL, christ just comes from the Greek chrīstós which means anointed one. There have been several historical writings from "anointed ones". If you're referring to Jesus, there are no historical writings from him.

Edit: My bad. I misread that, you said historical writings regarding christ. Keep in mind any historical writing regarding Jesus were written by people that never met him. I have studied those.

[OldFartTom]

Study the historical writings regarding Christ.

I think the issue is that I (and I *assume* you Scott?) believe the Bible as a whole and as authorative, however thedickus has said he believes some parts but not others like e.g. not the John or Pauline chapters.

If some of us are basing our understanding on a larger body of text and some others only reading very specific sections, then we will end up with irreconcilable views that no amount of Bible quoting will resolve.

Edit, just to try to prevent descent into pointless or bitter arguing did any of you guys see this of very young Billy Strings playing a cover of Jerry Reed's "The Preacher and the Bear"? Don't go hunting on the Sabbath... you were warned amazing guitar playing though

[mtpockets]

[OldFartTom]

Still on spread for the Mary Joke (presumably you were Catholic educated?) but repworthy IMG.

[ScottLefler]

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

[mtpockets]

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

Wondering what brought you to our neck of the woods.

I looked at your post history and it is all in this thread.

Do you lift weights?

No Fibbing now, you know who's watching and I'm not talking about Santa.

[supramax]

Wondering what brought you to our neck of the woods.

I looked at your post history and it is all in this thread.

Do you lift weights?

No Fibbing now, you know who's watching and I'm not talking about Santa.

Well, actually you are.

[ScottLefler]

Wondering what brought you to our neck of the woods.

I looked at your post history and it is all in this thread.

Do you lift weights?

No Fibbing now, you know who's watching and I'm not talking about Santa.

I used to exercise and was a wrestler, I need to get back into it. I am out of shape and this site keeps me thinking about it.

[Tiggis]

It is not as complicated as you list.

1. Believe in Jesus as the Messiah
2. Believe he was raised from the dead.

The rest is just popular talk and church talk.

[mtpockets]

I used to exercise and was a wrestler, I need to get back into it. I am out of shape and this site keeps me thinking about it.

So you joined this site to think about getting in shape?
Are you a pastor, minister, priest or such?

[ScottLefler]

It is not as complicated as you list.

1. Believe in Jesus as the Messiah
2. Believe he was raised from the dead.

The rest is just popular talk and church talk.

Believe that He died and rose again & Our Faith needs to be in Him as Lord of your life.

Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 13 "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

[thedickus]

Believe that He died and rose again & Our Faith needs to be in Him as Lord of your life.

Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 13 "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

Jesus died because he pi$$ed off the Sanhedrin, that's the only reason. The Romans tortured, killed him, and tossed his body into an unmarked mass grave so the scavengers could finish up with the scraps as was the custom of the day. This further desecrated the body and served as a deterrent to jews. Jesus never preached salvation, he preached repentance, and keeping the Abrahamic laws, he was a jew. Romans was written by someone that never met Jesus and was most likely schizophrenic and subject to hallucinations. The Pauline epistles are in stark contrast to what Jesus and his actual remaining disciples actually preached.

[2nd_chance]

Jesus died because he pi$$ed off the Sanhedrin, that's the only reason. The Romans tortured, killed him, and tossed his body into an unmarked mass grave so the scavengers could finish up with the scraps as was the custom of the day. This further desecrated the body and served as a deterrent to jews. Jesus never preached salvation, he preached repentance, and keeping the Abrahamic laws, he was a jew. Romans was written by someone that never met Jesus and was most likely schizophrenic and subject to hallucinations. The Pauline epistles are in stark contrast to what Jesus and his actual remaining disciples actually preached.

Good to see you still at it! Hopefully no one takes you seriously

[supramax]

[thedickus]

LOL!!
Poor Joseph, the original cuckold. Can you imagine anytime he and Mary had sex and she cried out OH GOD!! Joseph would get all pi$$ed off...You're thinking about him again aren't you! Did you give him anal Mary? Did you? YOU'RE PREGNANT? IT'S NOT MINE? JESUS CHRIST!! That's what we'll call the little bastard...Jesus Christ.

[supramax]

LOL!!
Poor Joseph, the original cuckold. Can you imagine anytime he and Mary had sex and she cried out OH GOD!! Joseph would get all pi$$ed off...You're thinking about him again aren't you! Did you give him anal Mary? Did you? YOU'RE PREGNANT? IT'S NOT MINE? JESUS CHRIST!! That's what we'll call the little bastard...Jesus Christ.

I think ****ing around was a stoning offense in those days. If there had been DNA tests, none of this particular nonsense would have happened. One less organized religion... no biggy.

[OldFartTom]

Such piety here think you guys must have had a difficult Catholic upbringing? For some of us the thread is about the redeeming Christ Jesus, not incidental characters.

But I've had a few good chuckles here as it amuses my irreverent character.

[supramax]

Actually, it would have been a biggy, because of all the lives that wouldn't have been cut short in the name of Christ.

[supramax]

Such piety here think you guys must have had a difficult Catholic upbringing? For some of us the thread is about the redeeming Christ Jesus, not incidental characters.

But I've had a few good chuckles here as it amuses my irreverent character.

I posted that joke about Mary, because David posted that he hoped no one took thedickus seriously. The thought was 'what do Christians take seriously?' You guys believe that the universe was created and that the creator came to Earth and got Mary pregnant and that her son is the saviour. When that fairytale came about, the universe was an Earth centric universe, a relatively small place. Now, we realize that it's quite a bit bigger, an infinite and eternal multi big bang situation.

[thedickus]

Actually, it would have been a biggy, because of all the lives that wouldn't have been cut short in the name of Christ.

DNA testing would've saved the world a lot of trouble. Jesus obviously wasn't middle eastern, in every picture I've seen he's white as a sheet. We wouldn't have any of this christianity BS, just judaism. I'm fine with judaism, as long as your not a Canaanite or Philistine they pretty much leave you alone. Jews are nice enough not to try to convert anyone. They're like, no the synagogue is already pretty crowded, we don't need any more.

[supramax]

DNA testing would've saved the world a lot of trouble. Jesus obviously wasn't middle eastern, in every picture I've seen he's white as a sheet. We wouldn't have any of this christianity BS, just judaism. I'm fine with judaism, as long as your not a Canaanite or Philistine they pretty much leave you alone. Jews are nice enough not to try to convert anyone. They're like, no the synagogue is already pretty crowded, we don't need any more.

All organized religion is fear based nonsense created by thought. That doesn't mean there isn't the religious mind and worship. It's just not a thought process asking for something.

[2nd_chance]

Mockers are gonna mock. Be prepared on judgment day. Have your fun now because that on day there will be a reckoning.

[supramax]

Mockers are gonna mock. Be prepared on judgment day. Have your fun now because that on day there will be a reckoning.

Well, you won't be disappointed.

EDIT: I just saw your neg over the Mary joke. I'm not allowed, apparently, to repeat what you said.

[thedickus]

Mockers are gonna mock. Be prepared on judgment day. Have your fun now because that on day there will be a reckoning.

Yep, Allah is going to have a field day with all of us infidels.

And shame on you for negging Supramax on what could be the only possible explanation of Mary getting pregnant if it wasn't from Joseph. Mary was in fact a cheating 13 year old little girl. By law she should've been stoned on her father's doorstep. Or do you also believe the gospel of James, Jesus's older brother, which even goes so far as to say that Mary's hymen was intact even after the birth of Jesus and his twin brother Didymos Judas Thomas?

[2nd_chance]

LOL!!
Poor Joseph, the original cuckold. Can you imagine anytime he and Mary had sex and she cried out OH GOD!! Joseph would get all pi$$ed off...You're thinking about him again aren't you! Did you give him anal Mary? Did you? YOU'RE PREGNANT? IT'S NOT MINE? JESUS CHRIST!! That's what we'll call the little bastard...Jesus Christ.

You know, it's easier to respect you when you are making intellectual debates regarding your position, as you used to do. But you seemed to have just lowered yourself into blasphemous and sacrilegious rants. I suppose you do that with all people groups that have a different worldview than yours? Or is it just Christians? Otherwise, I hope life is treating you well.