Max weight for deadlifts and squats without diminishing returns?

[AA43560]

Im getting back into these exercises after a herniated disc. Ive healed, but I dont want to keep adding weight just for the sake of it and risk injury again, so i want to put a hard cap on the weight and increase reps. If I dont put a mental cap, I'm just gonna be tempted to keep going up in weight and risk injury again.

For the record, i used to 1rm 500 deadlift and 350 squat. I really dont think i wanna risk pushing even close to those numbers again. I have fixed my technique, and do a lot of mobility work now, but I still dont want to risk anything.

Im only interested in the hypertrophy potential of these exercises. What weights do you think would be sufficient to cap it at indefinitely and just focus on rep work (maybe in the 8-15 rep range?)? Or do you think you really need to go into the 400s+ to get the most muscle development?

[BeginnerGainz]

My general rule of thumb is, if I can’t lift it at least 6 times with perfect form and good ROM, it is an ego lift and should be done sparingly.

Nowadays I do rest/pause sets, and really push rep increases over weight increases.

[AA43560]

My general rule of thumb is, if I can’t lift it at least 6 times with perfect form and good ROM, it is an ego lift and should be done sparingly.

Nowadays I do rest/pause sets, and really push rep increases over weight increases.

Yeah im with you.

But I can see myself getting back into the 400s+ without discomfort. Despite that, I still dont like the idea of that much weight on my spine though, even if Its painless at the time.

Im super risk averse nowadays. If doing 225 deadlift and squats for reps can give me the same hypertrophy as 405+, I would love to stick with that.

[air2fakie]

There's no "weight cap" for hypertrophy, it's about your volume, intensity and overall programming.

If you're only interested in hypertrophy and concerned about re-injury, you can do other squat and DL variations (or other exercises entirely) that'll be easier on your back and similarly effective for building muscle.

[BeginnerGainz]

Yeah im with you.

But I can see myself getting back into the 400s+ without discomfort. Despite that, I still dont like the idea of that much weight on my spine though, even if Its painless at the time.

Im super risk averse nowadays. If doing 225 deadlift and squats for reps can give me the same hypertrophy as 405+, I would love to stick with that.

I stick with RDLs, deficit SLDLs and loaded back extensions for hypertrophy vs deadlifts off the floor TBH.

As far as squats go, that depends on you. My particular build makes me very glute dominant when I squat so I had to do hack squats, leg presses and leg extensions to build the quads.

Best of luck m8

[ECGordyn]

A weight you can do at around 5 RPE / 5 RIR will build muscle and not be very hard on the body.

Do a variety of lifts like RDL, 1 leg RDL, glute Bridges, constant tension squat, split squats, lunges, etc. You've got a lot of flexibility in exercise choice, rep range, weight selection if hypertrophy is your main goal.

[MG5]

If your main goal is hypertrophy and you're not concerned with building a really strong squat and deadlift, do them last in your workout.

You'll already be very fatigued from everything else you've done, so you won't be able to use much weight anyways, but it'll still be very challenging.

Your muscles will already be taxed, the pump will already be there. Do squats and deadlifts last and you'll really feel them. You can go up in reps. Once you get to a certain number of reps, you can add 5-10 lbs, drop down in reps, and work your way back up again.

If you still want to make them more challenging, shorten rest periods, pause at the bottom of the squat or middle of the deadlifts, around the knees.

All of those can work, but make sure your form doesn't go to crap. It's easy for that to happen on compound movements like squats and deadlifts when you're tired.

This is what I do with clients who are working around physical limitations/injuries and can't go quite as heavy.

Everybody always think squats and deadlifts or even bench and overhead press should ALWAYS go first. In most cases, yes, they should be. But in cases like these just rearranging exercise order can help.

[EliKoehn]

^^ Great responses above.

Having already pulled five, your weight at 5RIR will probably be pretty considerable for hypertrophy or maintenance purposes. I lack the knowledge and experience to attest to whether or not additional hypertrophy is going to be greatly stifled without going back into the same territory where you'd risk injury, but it looks/sounds like you've already gone far already and also don't stand to lose much at all with a maintenance strategy. I know a guy in his late 40s who never deadlifts heavy but does sets of up to 20 with 275 or so and his upper back looks like a piece of furniture, if that's worth anything.

Good luck man.

[AA43560]

If your main goal is hypertrophy and you're not concerned with building a really strong squat and deadlift, do them last in your workout.

You'll already be very fatigued from everything else you've done, so you won't be able to use much weight anyways, but it'll still be very challenging.

Your muscles will already be taxed, the pump will already be there. Do squats and deadlifts last and you'll really feel them. You can go up in reps. Once you get to a certain number of reps, you can add 5-10 lbs, drop down in reps, and work your way back up again.

If you still want to make them more challenging, shorten rest periods, pause at the bottom of the squat or middle of the deadlifts, around the knees.

All of those can work, but make sure your form doesn't go to crap. It's easy for that to happen on compound movements like squats and deadlifts when you're tired.

This is what I do with clients who are working around physical limitations/injuries and can't go quite as heavy.

Everybody always think squats and deadlifts or even bench and overhead press should ALWAYS go first. In most cases, yes, they should be. But in cases like these just rearranging exercise order can help.

Thats a really good idea! Thanks, I'll start doing that.

I still want a number to put a mental "Do not cross this" though lol.

[BeginnerGainz]

Thats a really good idea! Thanks, I'll start doing that.

I still want a number to put a mental "Do not cross this" though lol.

I would like to put out there that I have done this before and it works wonderfully.

It is currently how my leg days are set up:

Calf raises, 1 straight set with deep stretch

Leg extensions, 1 rest pause set

Seated leg curls, 1 rest pause set

Leg press or hack squat , 1 straight set 10-12 reps

Deep hamstring stretch hip extension (loaded back extensions, good morning, SLDL, whatever), 1 straight set 6-8 reps

Goblet squat iso hold finisher

(Warm ups not listed)