What do you think of my push/pull/legs split?

[Despaxir]

Hello all, I've been training for a few months now and I've really been enjoying it. Currently, I'm doing some upper/lower split but I want to do a PPL split, as I think I'll enjoy that a lot. So I've kind of made my own workout. What do you guys think? I want to follow this plan for a long time. I'm currently losing weight, but will switch later to bulk or maintain and just keep training. Btw, in my gym I only have access to dumbbells and some machines and a cable machine, but I think in a few months or so I may switch gyms or I may not.

Monday:
Push Ups 4 sets
DB Bench Press 4 sets
Standing DB Overhead press 4 sets
Lateral Raises 4 sets
Bent Over Flies 4 sets (for rear belts)
Tricep cable push downs 3 sets

Tuesday:
Chin ups as many sets as possible
Lat pulldown 4 sets
Chest supported seated row 4 sets
Bodyweight rows 4-6 sets
Face pulls 3 sets
Bicep curls on the cable machine 3 sets

Wednesday:
DB Glute Bridge 4 sets
DB Hip thrust 4 sets
Goblet squats 4 sets
DB sumo deadlift 4 sets (tbh I'm not sure, I feel like this exercise is more of a deep pile squat than a deadlift)
Static lunges 4 sets
Bulgarian split squats 4 sets

4 sets of calf raises on Mon, Wed and Fri for my calves.

Then I'll just rotate the same workouts on Thursday, Friday and Saturday to hit everything twice a week.

I'll also do 30 mins to 1 hour of the elliptical machine after every workout. For direct ab training I do them at home.

For every set I do 12-15 reps as usual and try to progressively overload.

I should clarify that push ups and chin ups are quite hard for me. I can only do like 15 reps for my max reps for push ups and only like 3 chin ups. So they're hard enough for me that I use them as a main exercise. I weigh 72kg right now at 5'7 and 19 years of age.

No hate please, just help me out lol. I don't want to follow a specific plan from the website, because well I wanna follow something I like and enjoy. I made this split using the exercises I tried out and what I enjoyed during my upper/lower workouts in the past months. I have trained before years ago but very inconsistently. I'd mostly just go to the gym and mess about, but I've been consistent now for a while and want to try this 6 days thing.

TLDR: What do you think of this plan? Any way to make it better or keep it as it is?

Edit: for rest times I usually do 1 min per set, I time it too. Sometimes I rest 1 min 30 or more if I'm not feeling it that day.

[MG5]

Many many plans can work. If you're progressing, then you're on the right track.

Things I would change if it were up to me...

- I'd skip the push-ups and stick with a heavy pressing movement to start. You're probably pretty fatigued by the time you get to your dumbbell bench after all those push-ups. I'd rather be fresh for the dumbbell press so I can progress on those faster.

- I'd take away the reverse flies for rear delts on Monday. That's a pulling movement. Not that it's super important if it's not technically a pulling movement, but you are doing face pulls the very next day and your rear delts will get hit hard with the rows and even lat pulldowns a bit. So, I'd remove the reverse flies, and keep the face pulls.

So something like...

Incline BB Bench
Flat DB Bench
Overhead Press
Lateral Raises
Tricep Pushdowns

- Not sure how many total reps you're going for on the chin-ups, but I'd stick with a set number of sets and reps so you can track progress easier. And so you're not doing so many chin-ups you're exhausted and can't move much weight on the rest of your workout.

- That's way too much volume for legs if you're hitting them 2x a week. If you can do all of that, and do it all again a few days later, you're not training hard and heavy enough.

- I'd also take longer rest between sets. Like heavy incline bench, 2-2.5 minutes, maybe even 3. But you seem new to all of this, so you probably aren't training THAT hard yet, so you probably don't need that much time. But 1 minute is too short for most exercises.

Imagine trying to do barbell back squats, 4 sets of 6 reps with 80% of your 1-rep max and only taking a 1 minute break. You're probably not going to hit 4 sets of 6. Too short of rest periods usually ends up decreasing your training volume because you're not able to lifting as much weight for as many sets and reps.

Heavy compounds - 2-3 min
Accessory movements - 1-2 min

I'm usually never taking less than 1.5 minutes on an exercise. Someone who has a better work capacity than me and better endurance might be able to handle less rest.

That's a very simplified break down of the approximate rest periods, but also go by feel and keep an eye on performance/progress and recovery.

I'd also cut back on the cardio. That's a lot already. It's usually best to get away with as little cardio as possible while still dropping body fat. So it's good to do the minimum so it's not interfering with weight training, and you allow room to increase cardio as you hit fat loss plateaus. If you just really enjoy cardio, then go ahead and do it.

[air2fakie]

No hate please, just help me out lol. I don't want to follow a specific plan from the website, because well I wanna follow something I like and enjoy. I made this split using the exercises I tried out and what I enjoyed during my upper/lower workouts in the past months. I have trained before years ago but very inconsistently. I'd mostly just go to the gym and mess about, but I've been consistent now for a while and want to try this 6 days thing.

TLDR: What do you think of this plan? Any way to make it better or keep it as it is?

Edit: for rest times I usually do 1 min per set, I time it too. Sometimes I rest 1 min 30 or more if I'm not feeling it that day.

Not sure if you consider this hate, but for weight loss it looks fine - for muscle building after a few months of training esp on a cut, it looks crappy. That being said, if you enjoy it, it keeps you in the gym, and you're happy with your results - there's nothing "wrong" with doing it. I won't give any specific changes since it sounds like you want to do your own thing, but if it helps you in general:

- Repetitive movements

- Volume seems like overkill esp at your level

- Uniform rep range of 12-15 reps is likely not ideal for certain exercises

- Rest times for weight loss is fine, but for muscle building, seems less than ideal for certain exercises

[EliKoehn]

Agree with both responses above. In general it seems like a little bit too much junk volume, which you'd most likely be better served replacing with a core of heavy work of some sort. I'd also develop some progress with barbell lifts before primarily switching to dumbbells, as they're more likely to exacerbate existing imbalances until a solid base of strength is developed.

That said, seems like you've got the right idea with covering all the major movement patterns. As a beginner you should still see pretty consistent success with something like this, despite being less than ideal.

However, is there any reason in particular you think a professionally-written program is something you wouldn't like and enjoy? If progress is your aim, following something tailored to provide that more ideally ought to yield more satisfaction than wasted effort doing miscellaneous stuff that you came up with.

[BeginnerGainz]

Like every other “rate my PPL” posted here, it looks pretty bad.

[EliKoehn]

Like every other “rate my PPL” posted here, it looks pretty bad.

It's not that bad. Why do you think so?

"Less than ideal" and "pretty bad" have a fairly wide gap between them.

[air2fakie]

It's not that bad. Why do you think so?

"Less than ideal" and "pretty bad" have a fairly wide gap between them.

I don't share BGz's disdain for PPLs (though I don't think they're well-suited for most beginners), but this one ain't great and isn't well thought out.

[EliKoehn]

I don't share BGz's disdain for PPLs (though I don't think they're well-suited for most beginners), but this one ain't great and isn't well thought out.

Yeah, could someone enlighten me on why PPL is so terribly awful? I get it if it's less than ideal, but it's not registering as to why it is so bad. The reason it's not appealing to me is because I like to pair opposite movement patterns to get more even work in less time, and I enjoy lifting a lot and it feels confined doing consecutive sets of the same essential motion. It's fun to deadlift, and then go bench, etc.

U/L seems to suite this approach better, but what's so wrong with PPL?

[BeginnerGainz]

Yeah, could someone enlighten me on why PPL is so terribly awful? I get it if it's less than ideal, but it's not registering as to why it is so bad. The reason it's not appealing to me is because I like to pair opposite movement patterns to get more even work in less time, and I enjoy lifting a lot and it feels confined doing consecutive sets of the same essential motion. It's fun to deadlift, and then go bench, etc.

U/L seems to suite this approach better, but what's so wrong with PPL?

My personal distaste for PPLs is twofold.

1) most of them (especially the ones we see here usually) might as well be “chest and arms with some lat pulldowns and squats thrown in” programs

And 2) the order. Push, pull, legs just doesn’t make sense to me. A modification I would make would be a pull w/deadlift variation, push, and then legs.

As far as my gripe with this one is the redundancy. You got glute bridges and hip thrust, pick one. Ditto for lunges and split squats, and for pushups and DB bench.

[air2fakie]

Yeah, could someone enlighten me on why PPL is so terribly awful? I get it if it's less than ideal, but it's not registering as to why it is so bad. The reason it's not appealing to me is because I like to pair opposite movement patterns to get more even work in less time, and I enjoy lifting a lot and it feels confined doing consecutive sets of the same essential motion. It's fun to deadlift, and then go bench, etc.

U/L seems to suite this approach better, but what's so wrong with PPL?

They're not bad. But many people throw in way more volume than they need, include every exercise under the sun, program them poorly, can't really work out 6 days/week so days end up dropping off, etc. And here, you get a lot of beginners who throw together some random PPL then start asking really basic Qs about their own program or get annoyed when feedback is negative.

If you have a suitable amount of volume, appropriate exercises and can put together a decent program, it doesn't matter if you split it up into FB, UL, PPL, PPLUL, etc. Results likely will be somewhat similar.

[Despaxir]

Agree with both responses above. In general it seems like a little bit too much junk volume, which you'd most likely be better served replacing with a core of heavy work of some sort. I'd also develop some progress with barbell lifts before primarily switching to dumbbells, as they're more likely to exacerbate existing imbalances until a solid base of strength is developed.

That said, seems like you've got the right idea with covering all the major movement patterns. As a beginner you should still see pretty consistent success with something like this, despite being less than ideal.

However, is there any reason in particular you think a professionally-written program is something you wouldn't like and enjoy? If progress is your aim, following something tailored to provide that more ideally ought to yield more satisfaction than wasted effort doing miscellaneous stuff that you came up with.

So basically I've got lots of free time right now and just wanna do something at the gym that I create myself and see what happens as I progress through it. Once I start uni in a couple of months, I'll have less time and I plan to follow a programme from over here or muscleandstrength.com

I don't have access to any barbells. My gym only has dumbbells and some machines so I can't build a base strength with barbells like you suggested. I'll just have to do it with dumbbells for the time being 😅

Yeah exactly okay so I have too much junk volume, I'll take that into consideration. Essentially why I kind of made this thread, see if I'm majorly doing something wrong.

[Despaxir]

Many many plans can work. If you're progressing, then you're on the right track.

Things I would change if it were up to me...

- I'd skip the push-ups and stick with a heavy pressing movement to start. You're probably pretty fatigued by the time you get to your dumbbell bench after all those push-ups. I'd rather be fresh for the dumbbell press so I can progress on those faster.

- I'd take away the reverse flies for rear delts on Monday. That's a pulling movement. Not that it's super important if it's not technically a pulling movement, but you are doing face pulls the very next day and your rear delts will get hit hard with the rows and even lat pulldowns a bit. So, I'd remove the reverse flies, and keep the face pulls.

So something like...

Incline BB Bench
Flat DB Bench
Overhead Press
Lateral Raises
Tricep Pushdowns

- Not sure how many total reps you're going for on the chin-ups, but I'd stick with a set number of sets and reps so you can track progress easier. And so you're not doing so many chin-ups you're exhausted and can't move much weight on the rest of your workout.

- That's way too much volume for legs if you're hitting them 2x a week. If you can do all of that, and do it all again a few days later, you're not training hard and heavy enough.

- I'd also take longer rest between sets. Like heavy incline bench, 2-2.5 minutes, maybe even 3. But you seem new to all of this, so you probably aren't training THAT hard yet, so you probably don't need that much time. But 1 minute is too short for most exercises.

Imagine trying to do barbell back squats, 4 sets of 6 reps with 80% of your 1-rep max and only taking a 1 minute break. You're probably not going to hit 4 sets of 6. Too short of rest periods usually ends up decreasing your training volume because you're not able to lifting as much weight for as many sets and reps.

Heavy compounds - 2-3 min
Accessory movements - 1-2 min

I'm usually never taking less than 1.5 minutes on an exercise. Someone who has a better work capacity than me and better endurance might be able to handle less rest.

That's a very simplified break down of the approximate rest periods, but also go by feel and keep an eye on performance/progress and recovery.

I'd also cut back on the cardio. That's a lot already. It's usually best to get away with as little cardio as possible while still dropping body fat. So it's good to do the minimum so it's not interfering with weight training, and you allow room to increase cardio as you hit fat loss plateaus. If you just really enjoy cardio, then go ahead and do it.

Alright so I won't do the rear flies then. I suppose I'm just doing the face pulls incorrectly, as I don't really feel my rear delts working or get sore. So I thought I might just add 2 days of rear delt exercises. Obviously that's a bad approach and I should just learn how to do face pulls correctly.

For the cardio alright I'll stick to 30 mins or so then and see how my body responds to lose the bodyfat. It's just that I've been stuck at 72kg for about 2 months now so I increased my cardio.

I'll switch the BP with push ups, so do the BP first and then push ups. I generally just want to get better at doing push ups so that's why I do them and I find them hard enough so I doubt it's a waste of time.

For chin ups, usually by my 5th or 6th set I can't do anymore and I stop and then do lat pulldowns. Eventually I want to be able to do pull ups. Total rep wise it's about 14 to 17 reps chin ups.

I just saw some programmes on muscleandstrength.com where they said to keep the rest periods 30 to 60 seconds so I basically just copied that. Also it helps to make my time at the gym go faster and that I'm not there all day.

[Despaxir]

Not sure if you consider this hate, but for weight loss it looks fine - for muscle building after a few months of training esp on a cut, it looks crappy. That being said, if you enjoy it, it keeps you in the gym, and you're happy with your results - there's nothing "wrong" with doing it. I won't give any specific changes since it sounds like you want to do your own thing, but if it helps you in general:

- Repetitive movements

- Volume seems like overkill esp at your level

- Uniform rep range of 12-15 reps is likely not ideal for certain exercises

- Rest times for weight loss is fine, but for muscle building, seems less than ideal for certain exercises

Nah I don't think this is hate. Thank you.

[TAWS6]

Yeah, could someone enlighten me on why PPL is so terribly awful? I get it if it's less than ideal, but it's not registering as to why it is so bad. The reason it's not appealing to me is because I like to pair opposite movement patterns to get more even work in less time, and I enjoy lifting a lot and it feels confined doing consecutive sets of the same essential motion. It's fun to deadlift, and then go bench, etc.

U/L seems to suite this approach better, but what's so wrong with PPL?

The problem with PPL is that its very inefficient. You're lifting 6 days per week just to train each muscle group twice per week. (In my opinion) if you can't get it done with 4 days per week, more days isn't going to help.

[MyEgoProblem]

Yeah, could someone enlighten me on why PPL is so terribly awful? I get it if it's less than ideal, but it's not registering as to why it is so bad. The reason it's not appealing to me is because I like to pair opposite movement patterns to get more even work in less time, and I enjoy lifting a lot and it feels confined doing consecutive sets of the same essential motion. It's fun to deadlift, and then go bench, etc.

U/L seems to suite this approach better, but what's so wrong with PPL?

Nothing inherently wrong with it in theory..
Execution almost always spoils it tho.


Plus its just boring as **** the way everyone writes them... (obviously this is a valid opinion, but still an opinion and not ba universal truth)

My personal distaste for PPLs is twofold.

1) most of them (especially the ones we see here usually) might as well be “chest and arms with some lat pulldowns and squats thrown in” programs

And 2) the order. Push, pull, legs just doesn’t make sense to me. A modification I would make would be a pull w/deadlift variation, push, and then legs.

As far as my gripe with this one is the redundancy. You got glute bridges and hip thrust, pick one. Ditto for lunges and split squats, and for pushups and DB bench.

1) covers almost everything written. On here regardless of split xD
Not that a bench specialist program is a problem tho

2) legs push pull off repeat is infinitely better... Unless youre the person that needs set days on the gregorian calendar..

3) can't disagree in principal really. It's not a great lineup.

[BeginnerGainz]

Nothing inherently wrong with it in theory..
Execution almost always spoils it tho.


Plus its just boring as **** the way everyone writes them... (obviously this is a valid opinion, but still an opinion and not ba universal truth)




1) covers almost everything written. On here regardless of split xD
Not that a bench specialist program is a problem tho

2) legs push pull off repeat is infinitely better... Unless youre the person that needs set days on the gregorian calendar..

3) can't disagree in principal really. It's not a great lineup.

Definitely agree with 3 on 1 off then repeat