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  1. #1
    Registered User IronDwarf91's Avatar
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    Advice, gzclp or Viking Bare Bones

    Hey guys

    After 2, almost 3 years of lying still andnot doing much I am looking to get back into lifting. Gyms are finally open again and wanna work on my health/body again.
    Weight 102kg / 225lbs
    Bf%; reckon between 23/26%
    Height 1.70cm /5.69
    Age: 30 next month

    Ive narrowed my choices down between gzclp and vbb upper/lower

    Any tips? Heard alot of good stuff from gzclp, is viking still viable nowadays? Havent heard alot from it for a while (still see its stickied tho)

    My main goal now is weight/fat loss, so not sure if that will influence the decision between which workout might suit more my needs.

    Thanks in advance to everyone taking the time to read and eventually answer this
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  2. #2
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Gzclp gets my vote
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  3. #3
    Registered User IronDwarf91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Gzclp gets my vote
    Can you enlighten me why it gets your vote?
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Gzclp gets my vote
    Seconded.
    Age: 28
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  5. #5
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    At 5-7 225 lbs, I'm assuming you'll be on a significant cut - so the volume of Vikings UL would be a bit of a grind.
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  6. #6
    Registered User IronDwarf91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    At 5-7 225 lbs, I'm assuming you'll be on a significant cut - so the volume of Vikings UL would be a bit of a grind.
    Yeah, i wanna atleast lose 20kg give or take, maybe drop 10% fatloss as long term so I reckon its gonna take a while. So gzclp might be better cause of the lower volume it has ?
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    Originally Posted by IronDwarf91 View Post
    Can you enlighten me why it gets your vote?
    It's more adaptable, less boring, probably better suited to most peoples Volume needs.

    And I prefer the progression.
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  8. #8
    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    Gzclp...
    Its just straight up better 😂
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  9. #9
    Registered User IronDwarf91's Avatar
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    Alright, thanks guys

    Just wondering in adding pendlays and chinups as extra t2s and face pulls, lateral raises as t3s is this a good adition?

    Also 3x10 deadlifts switch to rdls or try doing them in the original way just as the workout says in the beginning?
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  10. #10
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronDwarf91 View Post
    Alright, thanks guys

    Just wondering in adding pendlays and chinups as extra t2s and face pulls, lateral raises as t3s is this a good adition?

    Also 3x10 deadlifts switch to rdls or try doing them in the original way just as the workout says in the beginning?
    Pick a program you're willing to run as-is within its parameters without adding a bunch of stuff in and switching exercises. You don't have special needs that require these changes and a goal with GZCLP is to balance the right amount of big lifts & your preferred accessories, along with their progression scheme. If that doesn't suit your style, pick something else.
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  11. #11
    Registered User paulinkansas's Avatar
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    Another vote for GZCLP, but for a different reason. GZ sounds like a firearms manufacturer. CLP is what I use on my collection of fine Italian firearms (Cleaner Lubricant Preservative).

    But seriously, pick a program and stick with it. There was another poster on here that would switch programs every 60 days for a year. He'd complain about not making progress, everyone told him to stick with the program. I'd refer to him as Adam Sandler.
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  12. #12
    Registered User IronDwarf91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Pick a program you're willing to run as-is within its parameters without adding a bunch of stuff in and switching exercises. You don't have special needs that require these changes and a goal with GZCLP is to balance the right amount of big lifts & your preferred accessories, along with their progression scheme. If that doesn't suit your style, pick something else.
    Thanks man, yeah I dont wanna change or add to much. Only pendlays for extra back work. Only reason I thought of rdls cause I thought that 3x10 DLs might be too much once weights get heavy but guess that goes for squats and such too so gonna suck it up and do it. Looking forward to it. Starting next week!
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  13. #13
    Registered User IronDwarf91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    Another vote for GZCLP, but for a different reason. GZ sounds like a firearms manufacturer. CLP is what I use on my collection of fine Italian firearms (Cleaner Lubricant Preservative).

    But seriously, pick a program and stick with it. There was another poster on here that would switch programs every 60 days for a year. He'd complain about not making progress, everyone told him to stick with the program. I'd refer to him as Adam Sandler.
    Yeah man, I guess you cross alot of those people. Even I know back in the day of switching every couple of weeks but now since its been a long time and wanna work on it again and improve my health/weight and strength will stick to the program. Gzclp it is!

    Any more tips anyone can give me?

    And thanks for your votes/opinions!
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  14. #14
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronDwarf91 View Post
    Thanks man, yeah I dont wanna change or add to much. Only pendlays for extra back work. Only reason I thought of rdls cause I thought that 3x10 DLs might be too much once weights get heavy but guess that goes for squats and such too so gonna suck it up and do it. Looking forward to it. Starting next week!
    You do realize that the T2 exercises don’t have be the same variation as the T1 exercises right?

    So for T1 bench you could flat or incline, but for the T2 it could be hammer chest presses or DB chest presses. Same thing for deadlifts, for T1 it could be a deadlift off the floor and for T2 it could be RDLs or rack pulls, so on and so forth.

    For T3, at the moment, I’d probably limit it to one back exercise. Horizontal pull one bench days, vertical pulls on OHP days.

    Pendlays are a fine exercise, but they aren’t only back exercise in existence. And with GZCLP you want to be mindful of fatigue in your lower back. So things like Pendlays, Tbar rows, Bent over rows should be put aside and you should instead focus on supported DB rows, seal rows, chest supported rows, etc.
    Basically, and kind a row that won’t put you in an unsupported hinged position.
    Last edited by BeginnerGainz; 06-24-2021 at 01:17 PM.
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    Originally Posted by IronDwarf91 View Post
    Any more tips anyone can give me?
    Get 125-140 grams of protein a day.
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    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronDwarf91 View Post
    Thanks man, yeah I dont wanna change or add to much. Only pendlays for extra back work. Only reason I thought of rdls cause I thought that 3x10 DLs might be too much once weights get heavy but guess that goes for squats and such too so gonna suck it up and do it. Looking forward to it. Starting next week!
    That's already built in so follow the progression instructions - your reps will decrease as you fail.
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  17. #17
    Registered User IronDwarf91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    You do realize that the T2 exercises don’t have be the same variation as the T1 exercises right?

    So for T1 bench you could flat or incline, but for the T2 it could be hammer chest presses or DB chest presses. Same thing for deadlifts, for T1 it could be a deadlift off the floor and for T2 it could be RDLs or rack pulls, so on and so forth.

    For T3, at the moment, I’d probably limit it to one back exercise. Horizontal pull one bench days, vertical pulls on OHP days.

    Pendlays are a fine exercise, but they aren’t only back exercise in existence. And with GZCLP you want to be mindful of fatigue in your lower back. So things like Pendlays, Tbar rows, Bent over rows should be put aside and you should instead focus on supported DB rows, seal rows, chest supported rows, etc.
    Basically, and kind a row that won’t put you in an unsupported hinged position.
    Yeah makes sense

    I thought adding subs of t1s is for a later time, I think if Ive read it correctly it was to make the lifter acostumed to the t1 lifts thats why I asked first cause I havent readed it first (my bad)
    I thought the pendlay kinda helped taking some pressure of the lower back compared to bent over rows but im a noob so I apparently dont know that well yet.
    So supported rows are better like cable rows and the other ones you mentioned?
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  18. #18
    Registered User IronDwarf91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    Get 125-140 grams of protein a day.
    Normally got 165g x day planned atm
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  19. #19
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IronDwarf91 View Post
    Yeah makes sense

    I thought adding subs of t1s is for a later time, I think if Ive read it correctly it was to make the lifter acostumed to the t1 lifts thats why I asked first cause I havent readed it first (my bad)
    I thought the pendlay kinda helped taking some pressure of the lower back compared to bent over rows but im a noob so I apparently dont know that well yet.
    So supported rows are better like cable rows and the other ones you mentioned?
    A seated cable row IS NOT a supported row. You have to fight to retain an upright posture. Again, I would avoid any row that requires you to maintain a leaning or hinged position. Chest supported rows (either DBs on an incline bench) or machine (weight stack or plate loaded) would be my go to. DB rows using a bench for support are great too.

    Anytime you lean at the hips, the low back is going to be called upon to stabilize that position, along with the he glutes and hamstrings. Pendlays are a little easier on the back, due to the exercise not having an eccentric component and the weight only having to travel the floor, to the upper chest then back the floor in one quick motion, but they still require you to be bent over.

    As far as the T1s go, you don’t necessarily have to stick to the back squat, conventional deadlift, standing OHP and flat bench, but as a beginner it would be wise to do these first, and build a base. Later on, you can decide if you prefer another variation(s).

    Example, if it were me, my T1s would be trap bar deads, incline bench, safety bar squats and high incline smith machine presses. YMMV.
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    What I will say, the t3 rep ranges? You may barf doing the amrap with pendlays.

    pendlays are virtually ZERO low back fatiguing tho. Unless you butcher them horrifically to the point they aren't pendlays any more.

    Low back fatigue certainly shouldn't be an issue tho if run as written, EOD.
    I got by running it 2on1off with no problems at all due to shift patterns...



    I'd seriously recommend not ****ing with any subs or protocols and actually run it as written and follow Cody's protocols for changing after a full cycle or two.

    Moving to the full gzcl framework later would be fun too. Where you are actively encouraged to pick your own stuff. GZCLP is a much more specific variant
    Last edited by MyEgoProblem; 06-24-2021 at 03:06 PM.
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  21. #21
    Registered User IronDwarf91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    What I will say, the t3 rep ranges? You may barf doing the amrap with pendlays.

    pendlays are virtually ZERO low back fatiguing tho. Unless you butcher them horrifically to the point they aren't pendlays any more.

    Low back fatigue certainly shouldn't be an issue tho if run as written, EOD.
    I got by running it 2on1off with no problems at all due to shift patterns...


    I'd seriously recommend not ****ing with any subs or protocols and actually run it as written and follow Cody's protocols for changing after a full cycle or two.

    Moving to the full gzcl framework later would be fun too. Where you are actively encouraged to pick your own stuff. GZCLP is a much more specific variant
    Thanks for your answer man

    Pendlays was gonna be an extra t2 exercise, just as assisted chin ups, d1 chinups, d2 pendlays, d3 chinups, d4 pendlays that was my plan, then as t3, face pulls on d1 and d3 and lateral raises on d2 and 4 and the rest as written. (Only thought was like I said changing dl t2 to rdls but will stick with how the program ks written on that part as im beginning. Can switch after a while I reckon, like you said, a cycle or 2)
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    Registered User IronDwarf91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    A seated cable row IS NOT a supported row. You have to fight to retain an upright posture. Again, I would avoid any row that requires you to maintain a leaning or hinged position. Chest supported rows (either DBs on an incline bench) or machine (weight stack or plate loaded) would be my go to. DB rows using a bench for support are great too.

    Anytime you lean at the hips, the low back is going to be called upon to stabilize that position, along with the he glutes and hamstrings. Pendlays are a little easier on the back, due to the exercise not having an eccentric component and the weight only having to travel the floor, to the upper chest then back the floor in one quick motion, but they still require you to be bent over.

    As far as the T1s go, you don’t necessarily have to stick to the back squat, conventional deadlift, standing OHP and flat bench, but as a beginner it would be wise to do these first, and build a base. Later on, you can decide if you prefer another variation(s).

    Example, if it were me, my T1s would be trap bar deads, incline bench, safety bar squats and high incline smith machine presses. YMMV.
    Thanks man for your help will do some supported rows then, will stick to the big 4 first and like MyEgoProblem said stick with a cycle or 2 then maybe change it up. 2 back exercises or 1 rear delt and 1 back are enough for balance right, or 2 back and 1 rear delt?
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  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by IronDwarf91 View Post
    Thanks for your answer man

    Pendlays was gonna be an extra t2 exercise, just as assisted chin ups, d1 chinups, d2 pendlays, d3 chinups, d4 pendlays that was my plan, then as t3, face pulls on d1 and d3 and lateral raises on d2 and 4 and the rest as written. (Only thought was like I said changing dl t2 to rdls but will stick with how the program ks written on that part as im beginning. Can switch after a while I reckon, like you said, a cycle or 2)
    Yeah. He says to eventually move t3 back to t2, gradually add new t3 stuff.
    Could be after 1 cycle or more.

    Its in the 'progression protocols' section
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