Reply
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Registered User BBforum5's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2021
    Age: 51
    Posts: 10
    Rep Power: 0
    BBforum5 has a little shameless behaviour in the past. (-10) BBforum5 has a little shameless behaviour in the past. (-10) BBforum5 has a little shameless behaviour in the past. (-10) BBforum5 has a little shameless behaviour in the past. (-10) BBforum5 has a little shameless behaviour in the past. (-10) BBforum5 has a little shameless behaviour in the past. (-10) BBforum5 has a little shameless behaviour in the past. (-10) BBforum5 has a little shameless behaviour in the past. (-10) BBforum5 has a little shameless behaviour in the past. (-10) BBforum5 has a little shameless behaviour in the past. (-10) BBforum5 has a little shameless behaviour in the past. (-10)
    BBforum5 is offline

    Rear delts - push or pull ?

    Hey, i have a question. I train P/P/L split and i dont know when to train rear delts/side delts ? On pull day i do rows,chin-ups etc. and they target rear delt pretty much, but on push day, i do overhead press and it targets whole shoulders, so my question is when it is better to do if its even matter ? Thanks
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Registered User safcpaul's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2018
    Age: 51
    Posts: 1,473
    Rep Power: 20611
    safcpaul has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) safcpaul has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) safcpaul has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) safcpaul has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) safcpaul has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) safcpaul has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) safcpaul has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) safcpaul has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) safcpaul has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) safcpaul has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) safcpaul has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    safcpaul is offline
    It really doesn't matter mate. I'd personally pair them with shoulders but that's my own preference
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Registered User MG5's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2010
    Location: Baltimore, Maryland, United States
    Age: 29
    Posts: 7,373
    Rep Power: 11428
    MG5 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) MG5 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) MG5 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) MG5 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) MG5 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) MG5 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) MG5 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) MG5 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) MG5 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) MG5 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) MG5 is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    MG5 is offline
    I've always done front and medial/lateral/side (all the same area of the shoulder, different names) deltoids on push, and rear delts on pull.
    WBFF Pro Muscle Model | Questions? Send me a private message.

    Online Training/Coaching Application: https://www.gettfit.com/online-coaching/

    Instagram: mike.gettier

    Join the Facebook Group - Build Muscle, Lose Fat, and Become Stronger: https://www.facebook.com/groups/buildmusclelosefat

    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr8jYRGthLppGdQhf8mw5Mg
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 52,858
    Rep Power: 1329025
    SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz
    SuffolkPunch is offline
    You don't have to categorise everything as a push or pull. The distinction is only for convenient scheduling not because it will make a difference to results.

    I put rear delts with back trainin if you want to know my preference.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 6,128
    Rep Power: 33407
    BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    BeginnerGainz is offline
    Rear delts on pull days

    External rotation stuff on push days
    Age: 28
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 4,755
    Rep Power: 14127
    air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    air2fakie is offline
    It's a pull, but do them whenever is most convenient given your overall program. You can even do rear delts on leg day if you want.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    Sarcastic Sage PTzFree's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2010
    Location: United States
    Posts: 4,045
    Rep Power: 37400
    PTzFree has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) PTzFree has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) PTzFree has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) PTzFree has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) PTzFree has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) PTzFree has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) PTzFree has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) PTzFree has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) PTzFree has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) PTzFree has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) PTzFree has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    PTzFree is offline
    This is why one of my splits is a back and shoulders day. Those two together just make more sense to me.
    “When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful.”
    ― Eric Thomas, The Secret to Success
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Registered User jaxqen's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2016
    Age: 33
    Posts: 654
    Rep Power: 4264
    jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    jaxqen is offline
    Rear delts - pull
    Side delts - push
    Anything else is just a hybrid between blasphemy and heresy
    "Reminds me of the good ol' days back in 03-04 when ripptoes/5 by 5/hit/doggcrap reigned supreme and you did not need direct arm work for big biceps. Rows and chins were it. "Ever see a guy rowing 300+lbs with chicken arms?". Ah yes those were the days. God bless amusclehead and his twisted one dimensional views along with the rest of the former flock."
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 1,893
    Rep Power: 8805
    EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000)
    EliKoehn is offline
    They end up getting hit pretty hard with deadlifts, pullups/pulldowns, and rows anyway.

    I actually don't do reverse flies, since something always clicks in my shoulders, but have decent rear-delt development just from the above compounds it seems.

    I agree with the above though: they're one of the smallest muscles that you can train, so they should recovery fairly quickly. If you want to do direct work you could throw them in on literally any day.
    Bench: 320
    Squat: 375
    Deadlift: 495

    "... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 6,128
    Rep Power: 33407
    BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    BeginnerGainz is offline
    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    They end up getting hit pretty hard with deadlifts, pullups/pulldowns, and rows anyway.

    I actually don't do reverse flies, since something always clicks in my shoulders, but have decent rear-delt development just from the above compounds it seems.

    I agree with the above though: they're one of the smallest muscles that you can train, so they should recovery fairly quickly. If you want to do direct work you could throw them in on literally any day.
    You think deadlifts work the rear delts?
    Age: 28
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 1,893
    Rep Power: 8805
    EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000)
    EliKoehn is offline
    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    You think deadlifts work the rear delts?
    Isometrically, yes. Look at my avi if you doubt the results.
    Bench: 320
    Squat: 375
    Deadlift: 495

    "... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Registered User jaxqen's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2016
    Age: 33
    Posts: 654
    Rep Power: 4264
    jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    jaxqen is offline
    I don't know about deadlifts, because I don't think isometry is that good at building muscles, but rows are pretty great for rear delts. Especially barbell rows to the chest. Same for vertical pulls.

    If someday I will be a dictator... No, no, when I will be a dictator (positive thinking, always positive thinking), I will take 10 healthy untrained, young guys and put them on an only deadlift workout for a few years to see what muscle groups will they develop.

    With proper nutrition and rest, of course. And they should have a lot of rest, because I will take their wifes/girlfriends and put them into my harem, so there will be zero distractions for them.

    Needless to say that If I catch them doing any other exercises they will be severely punished.

    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    I actually don't do reverse flies, since something always clicks in my shoulders
    Those are just your shoulders longing for more reverse flies, dude!
    "Reminds me of the good ol' days back in 03-04 when ripptoes/5 by 5/hit/doggcrap reigned supreme and you did not need direct arm work for big biceps. Rows and chins were it. "Ever see a guy rowing 300+lbs with chicken arms?". Ah yes those were the days. God bless amusclehead and his twisted one dimensional views along with the rest of the former flock."
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 6,128
    Rep Power: 33407
    BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    BeginnerGainz is offline
    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Isometrically, yes. Look at my avi if you doubt the results.
    Maybe a tad if you supinate one side, but realistically none of what the rear delts are responsible for are involved in deadlifting, at all.

    Those being:
    Extension
    Transverse Extension
    Transverse Abduction
    External Rotation

    Your rear delts are acceptable, but I can guaran-damn-tee you didn’t get them from deadlifting.

    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    I don't know about deadlifts, because I don't think isometry is that good at building muscles, but rows are pretty great for rear delts. Especially barbell rows to the chest. Same for vertical pulls.

    If someday I will be a dictator... No, no, when I will be a dictator (positive thinking, always positive thinking), I will take 10 healthy untrained, young guys and put them on an only deadlift workout for a few years to see what muscle groups will they develop.

    With proper nutrition and rest, of course. And they should have a lot of rest, because I will take their wifes/girlfriends and put them into my harem, so there will be zero distractions for them.

    Needless to say that If I catch them doing any other exercises they will be severely punished.



    Those are just your shoulders longing for more reverse flies, dude!
    *isometrics

    Isometry is advanced math stuff my dude.

    And I doubt you need a study to determine what would happen if people only did one exercise, especially one that has a pretty bad risk to reward as the weights get higher. And then on top of that, do enough volume that it would take to thoroughly work all the musculature involved. Glutes and proximal hams would be fine, spinal erectors too, but the mid to upper back would surely be lacking size. Not to mention how annoying it is to take 10+ plates off a damn bar when you’re done.

    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post

    I actually don't do reverse flies, since something always clicks in my shoulders, but have decent rear-delt development just from the above compounds it seems.
    You’re probably starting the movement with the arms, which is gonna then include the front of the shoulder and that can be bad depending on how your put together.

    Make sure you’re starting with protracted shoulders, and don’t think about pulling the arms back, think about pulling the shoulder blades together. Another cue that helped people whenever I told them: move as though your pushing something away from you and to the side with both arms.

    But if that doesn’t work, there are reverse cable flies, and they’re awesome.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f5V2XHVR3Dg
    Last edited by BeginnerGainz; 06-17-2021 at 12:02 PM.
    Age: 28
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 1,893
    Rep Power: 8805
    EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000)
    EliKoehn is offline
    @Jaxqen, lol their women would thank you for their temporary incarceration, when they find that after the study these dudes are massive: jacked forearms, pyramid traps, pillars running down their back and filled out overall.

    In all seriousness I'd love to see a study like this.

    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    You’re probably starting the movement with the arms, which is gonna then include the front of the shoulder and that can be bad depending on how your put together.

    Make sure you’re starting with protracted shoulders, and don’t think about pulling the arms back, think about pulling the shoulder blades together. Another cue that helped people whenever I told them: move as though your pushing something away from you and to the side with both arms.

    But if that doesn’t work, there are reverse cable flies, and they’re awesome.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f5V2XHVR3Dg
    Yeah I should give them another try. Haven't seriously incorporated them in years, and back when I did them, I didn't really know what I was doing overall. It's possible that whatever didn't feel right has been outgrown/remedied since then.

    Going to switch to a more bodybuilding-oriented routine the next couple of months for a mini-cut so now would probably be a good time for direct work.
    Bench: 320
    Squat: 375
    Deadlift: 495

    "... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
    Reply With Quote

  15. #15
    Registered User jaxqen's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2016
    Age: 33
    Posts: 654
    Rep Power: 4264
    jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) jaxqen is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    jaxqen is offline
    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    @Jaxqen, lol their women would thank you for their temporary incarceration, when they find that after the study these dudes are massive: jacked forearms, pyramid traps, pillars running down their back and filled out overall.

    In all seriousness I'd love to see a study like this.
    I think they would be very asymmetrical.
    No quads, no chest.
    Probably lacking arms.
    But yeah, forearms like Popeye and big traps. Also, glutes and hams.

    This reminded me about a guy' photos from years ago.
    He was a very skinny guy and he lifted at home only for arms and shoulders for 3-4 years.
    The most asymmetrical guy I've seen when it comes to upper body.
    Big bis, quite impressive, especially for him, decent triceps, good shoulder development (front and side, he has no photos of his back & rear delts)
    No chest at all (just a little on that upper clavicle, probably front front raises). No lats. No core. People told him he is asymmetrical, but he considered them jealous.

    Oh, and recently when i went running I've seen this guy with huge legs like a powerlifter. Small arms. Some lat development and he didn't look like he had a chest. He didn't seem at all like the runner type but he was going for a semi-marathon or more. I wonder what sport he did. he also looked very asymmetrical.
    "Reminds me of the good ol' days back in 03-04 when ripptoes/5 by 5/hit/doggcrap reigned supreme and you did not need direct arm work for big biceps. Rows and chins were it. "Ever see a guy rowing 300+lbs with chicken arms?". Ah yes those were the days. God bless amusclehead and his twisted one dimensional views along with the rest of the former flock."
    Reply With Quote

  16. #16
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2019
    Age: 51
    Posts: 1,893
    Rep Power: 8805
    EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000) EliKoehn is a name known to all. (+5000)
    EliKoehn is offline
    Yeah, certainly if someone only deadlifted they would look weird and not have a chest and their quads would probably be flat. Just making a lighthearted joke since the deadlift is I think a little underappreciated by many who regularly post here.

    That guy probably did squats for endurance carryover, if I had to guess.
    Bench: 320
    Squat: 375
    Deadlift: 495

    "... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
    Reply With Quote

  17. #17
    Registered User jademonkey's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2019
    Posts: 1,266
    Rep Power: 2423
    jademonkey is just really nice. (+1000) jademonkey is just really nice. (+1000) jademonkey is just really nice. (+1000) jademonkey is just really nice. (+1000) jademonkey is just really nice. (+1000) jademonkey is just really nice. (+1000) jademonkey is just really nice. (+1000) jademonkey is just really nice. (+1000) jademonkey is just really nice. (+1000) jademonkey is just really nice. (+1000) jademonkey is just really nice. (+1000)
    jademonkey is offline
    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    Oh, and recently when i went running I've seen this guy with huge legs like a powerlifter. Small arms. Some lat development and he didn't look like he had a chest. He didn't seem at all like the runner type but he was going for a semi-marathon or more. I wonder what sport he did. he also looked very asymmetrical.
    Maybe track sprinter. The bike kind. Or even crit racer.
    April 2021.................16 week cut.................168 lbs
    2020......................375 / 285 / 505..............186 lbs
    Pre-COVID..............335 / 295 / 499..............185 lbs
    July 1, 2019................9 week cut.................164 lbs
    Late April 2019.........285 / 275 / 440.............178 lbs
    Oct, 2018..............175x6 / 145x6 / 275x5......163 lbs
    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts