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  1. #1
    Registered User Acromiller's Avatar
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    Modifications Post Deload?

    Coming up on a year of working out. I started with the Fierce 5 full body 3 day split and ran it for about 3-4 months and decided to move on to the intermediate upper/lower split to add more training time into my weekly routine. Now I'm on my second deload of running this 4 day upper/lower split and I'm curious if there are modifications I can add in or swap out to keep things fresh and revitalize my training.

    Upper 1:
    Bench 3x5
    Incline Bench 3x5
    Lat Pulldown 3x8
    Bent Over Rows 3x8
    Curls 3x10 / Reverse Flies 3x12 superset

    Lower 1:
    Squat 3x5
    Good Mornings 3x8
    Bulgarian Split Squat 3x10
    Hamstring Curls 3x10
    Abs 3x15 / Calf Raises 3x12 Superset

    Upper 2:
    Bench 3x5
    OHP 3x5
    Flies 3x10
    Pullups 3x8
    Pendlay Rows 3x8
    Face Pulls 3x12 / Tricep Pushdowns 3x10

    Lower 2:
    Pause Squat 3x5
    RDL 3x8
    Leg Extension 3x10
    Hamstring Curls 3x10
    Abs 3x15 / Calf Raises 3x12

    I've made solid strength gains on my compounds. About 100lbs from where I started and the rest have been increasing incrementally based off of the progression the fierce 5 program stated. 5lbs for upper and 10lbs for lower every two weeks. I'm just wondering if there are some new movements I could add in addition into my training to add some variety or swap out some of the stuff I've been doing. I should also mention I'm not training to get super strong I'm actually more interested in losing fat and working on building the muscle size. I know the fat part is mostly diet but when it comes to weight/reps I'm unsure on how to proceed. I want to build a larger back and shoulders and I've just been following this program religiously. So I can either continue with the reps and sets the way I have them or maybe go higher reps lighter weight.

    In conclusion: Working out has been a great change for me this past year. Seeing my body start to fill out more and be less jiggly has been a great confidence booster. I'm wanting to take my training to the next level and focus on building larger muscle mass vs strength training and add more variety to keep things from getting stale. Going for ectomorph physique but obviously not at a professional level.

    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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  2. #2
    Rows Could've Saved Jack Camarija's Avatar
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    You are asking for advice on program changes with the following goals / parameters:
    1. Training for physique, not strength.
    2. Want to lose fat.
    3. Want to gain muscle.

    1. Have you been tracking your physique progress throughout your training? For example, have you been keeping a log of your weight, body fat estimates, lean muscle mass estimates, even body part measurements throughout your journey? If no, then it will be a bit difficult to judge physique progress accurately. If yes, then is the program still yielding physique progress? If yes, then you probably shouldn't kill the goose. Stick with it until it stops yielding physique results. If no, then it's time to change up your programming.

    2. There are a myriad of ways to change your programming if you're looking to surpass plateaus in physique progress. The main variables will be volume, intensity, and frequency. For example, you could change your programming where your first Upper and Lower days are heavier days with more intensity, and your second Upper and Lower days are lighter days with less intensity but more volume. You could experiment with adding volume/intensity/frequency where you want to make progress in a way that still allows you to recover in time for your next session.

    3. This brings me to my next point. How much is too much volume / frequency / intensity for the purposes of physique training? The simple answer is that it depends on YOU and YOUR recovery. There are however a wealth of resources available for free, which I will link here for your discretion:
    On Maintenance Volume, Minimum Effective Volume, Maximum Adaptive Volume, and Maximum Recoverable Volume.
    On hypertrophy training for different muscle groups with recommendations on volume, intensity, and frequency.

    4. With regards to your goals of losing fat and gaining muscle, I think the jury is still out on whether recomping is ideal, or the traditional bulking and cutting methods are preferred, but I'll give you some recommendations on the latter.

    If you're looking to gain muscle:


    If you're looking to lose fat:
    Aim for weight loss of 0.5% - 1.0% bodyweight per week.

    optimal amounts 0.40–0.55 g/kg per meal and distributed evenly throughout the day (3–6 meals) including within 1–2 hours pre- and post-training.

    For a more complete nutrition guide that has served me well on both cuts and bulks, check this out!!

    Cheers bro! Keep at it!!!
    ► Intermediate Bodybuilding Classic Physique ► Renaissance Periodization Programming
    ► https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=180349883
    ► Progress Pictures
    ► https://i.ibb.co/r6RKF4p/Progress-Pictures.png
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  3. #3
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    I wouldn't change too much about Davis's program, it's really solid. But you could change rep ranges on Days 2, and do variations on Days 2.

    Rep ranges on Days 2 you could do 3x8-10.

    Variations of the exercises are also fun to do. Keep the basic movement in once a week, and then on day 2 do a variation exercise.

    Constant Tension Squat
    Front Squat
    Platz Squat
    Close Grip Bench
    Larsen Bench
    Spoto Bench
    Long Pause Bench
    Swap Good Morning for one of these:
    Straight Leg DL
    Snatch Grip DL
    Heavy DL from the floor

    Candito Linear strength/hypertrophy is a similar program, but with higher rep ranges on 2 days.
    2020 maxes
    Squat 185
    Bench 137
    DL 205
    above @ bw 88.5 age 43

    Workout Journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175647011&p=1630928323&viewfull=1#post1630928323
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  4. #4
    Registered User Acromiller's Avatar
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    I really like the idea of changing up the volume/intensity on other days but since my days aren't identical and have different movements could this be expanded to a weekly change? Follow the weight/reps for one whole week and then the following week drop the weight a bit on everything but increase the reps? I always hear about drop sets and how you should really train your muscles to failure. Following this program has allowed me to stay within a window to where I get all my sets finished but I may still have a rep or two in the tank. So I'm interested in performing drop sets to really burn out anything I have left if it's appropriate.
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  5. #5
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Acromiller View Post
    I really like the idea of changing up the volume/intensity on other days but since my days aren't identical and have different movements could this be expanded to a weekly change? Follow the weight/reps for one whole week and then the following week drop the weight a bit on everything but increase the reps? I always hear about drop sets and how you should really train your muscles to failure. Following this program has allowed me to stay within a window to where I get all my sets finished but I may still have a rep or two in the tank. So I'm interested in performing drop sets to really burn out anything I have left if it's appropriate.
    Training to failure consistently is actually counterproductive as it causes too much fatigue without enough time for adequate recovery. Nothing really wrong with training to failure for 1 week and then backing off the following week. But it's not necessary by any means.

    It also doesn't much matter that the movements aren't identical within a week, since you're still training the same muscle groups. The quads don't know the difference between a squat and a leg press, for example. The leg press is easier so it's good for accumulating volume, whereas tons of volume on squat would be more fatiguing than necessary.
    2020 maxes
    Squat 185
    Bench 137
    DL 205
    above @ bw 88.5 age 43

    Workout Journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175647011&p=1630928323&viewfull=1#post1630928323
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