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  1. #61
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Golden era of bodybuilding used to be big on quality fat, such as those found in Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake!

    Adam chugged one and actually wrestled a bear afterwards….the bear is now his butler.
    It seemed like a better option than a slap-fight.

    He hadn't clipped his claws in years!
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  2. #62
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    It seemed like a better option than a slap-fight.

    He hadn't clipped his claws in years!
    i don't know man, i personally would NOT have tussled with one shake or no shake

    as long as he obeys hopefully you'll grant him freedom soon
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  3. #63
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    i don't know man, i personally would NOT have tussled with one shake or no shake

    as long as he obeys hopefully you'll grant him freedom soon
    Never underestimate the power of the shake

    If you fuel underfueled, try using ostrich eggs instead of chicken eggs!
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  4. #64
    Registered User Strawng's Avatar
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    Dude, check out the actual macros in an ostrich egg: https://www.nutritionix.com/i/nutrit...05bc6c163f7c50

    It's over 2k calories, 176 g of protein, 5,280 mg of cholesterol, 133 g of fat...of which 44 are SFA

    Also, where in the fuk is Mrpb?! He probably srsly knows more about this topic than Volek FFS. I want him to see this thread as bad as I didn't want him to see the other one LOL
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  5. #65
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    Dude, check out the actual macros in an ostrich egg: https://www.nutritionix.com/i/nutrit...05bc6c163f7c50

    It's over 2k calories, 176 g of protein, 5,280 mg of cholesterol, 133 g of fat...of which 44 are SFA

    Also, where in the fuk is Mrpb?! He probably srsly knows more about this topic than Volek FFS. I want him to see this thread as bad as I didn't want him to see the other one LOL
    He is probably using us as a study sample somehow.

    I keep thinking of possible ways to summon him.

    Was just thinking of making a thread on how nutrition science or sports science is bogus just to provoke him to return...
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  6. #66
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    Dude, check out the actual macros in an ostrich egg: https://www.nutritionix.com/i/nutrit...05bc6c163f7c50

    It's over 2k calories, 176 g of protein, 5,280 mg of cholesterol, 133 g of fat...of which 44 are SFA

    Also, where in the fuk is Mrpb?! He probably srsly knows more about this topic than Volek FFS. I want him to see this thread as bad as I didn't want him to see the other one LOL
    Lol holy shyt
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  7. #67
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    Dude, check out the actual macros in an ostrich egg: https://www.nutritionix.com/i/nutrit...05bc6c163f7c50

    It's over 2k calories, 176 g of protein, 5,280 mg of cholesterol, 133 g of fat...of which 44 are SFA

    Also, where in the fuk is Mrpb?! He probably srsly knows more about this topic than Volek FFS. I want him to see this thread as bad as I didn't want him to see the other one LOL
    Joe rogan ate them on fear factor, along with those Madagascar ants
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  8. #68
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Never underestimate the power of the shake

    If you fuel underfueled, try using ostrich eggs instead of chicken eggs!
    This weekend I’ll give it a shot
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  9. #69
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EiFit91 View Post
    He is probably using us as a study sample somehow.

    I keep thinking of possible ways to summon him.

    Was just thinking of making a thread on how nutrition science or sports science is bogus just to provoke him to return...
    Just say OK….that got him to keep posting links for me


    Most of the time I’m too lazy to even google
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  10. #70
    Gaintaining Mrpb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EiFit91 View Post
    But the sample size in this study was very small (12 men), and I am personally not aware of other studies of the relationship between fat sources and testosterone. How much do we really know about this topic?
    One thing I find peculiar about the Volek study that there was a guy in there with a total T of 5 nmol/L, which is too low/below the normal range. The guy was on an ultra low fat diet. If they had removed this guy from the data set (which I think they should have) I think a lot of the relations they found are close to noise.

    About the monounsaturated fat, there's more support for that it increases total T but I've also seen several studies showing that it increases SHBG. That means it won't increase free T or it won't increase it as much as SFA would. So SFA may have an edge for people that want to maximise free T.

    Not that I think it will make a big difference for most people. Although, if you're looking to maximise strength/muscle higher free T is always preferable I believe. At the same time increasing SFA is also likely to worsen lipids in most, in my opinion.
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  11. #71
    Registered User EiFit91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    One thing I find peculiar about the Volek study that there was a guy in there with a total T of 5 nmol/L, which is too low/below the normal range. The guy was on an ultra low fat diet. If they had removed this guy from the data set (which I think they should have) I think a lot of the relations they found are close to noise.

    About the monounsaturated fat, there's more support for that it increases total T but I've also seen several studies showing that it increases SHBG. That means it won't increase free T or it won't increase it as much as SFA would. So SFA may have an edge for people that want to maximise free T.

    Not that I think it will make a big difference for most people. Although, if you're looking to maximise strength/muscle higher free T is always preferable I believe. At the same time increasing SFA is also likely to worsen lipids in most, in my opinion.
    Thanks, very interesting.

    Would very much appreciate some of the sources for what you wrote in the second paragraph if you have them readily available. I suspect I would not find them on my own.

    Oh and I don't know if you saw this but there was a brief exchange between me and Strawng earlier in the thread. He thought you had shared a study implying variation in test within the normal range doesn't really matter for muscle building, and I thought the opposite - that you shared a study that suggested that even within the normal range you should expect it to matter as long as we are talking about average increases over a long period of time.
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  12. #72
    Registered User Strawng's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    One thing I find peculiar about the Volek study that there was a guy in there with a total T of 5 nmol/L, which is too low/below the normal range. The guy was on an ultra low fat diet. If they had removed this guy from the data set (which I think they should have) I think a lot of the relations they found are close to noise.

    About the monounsaturated fat, there's more support for that it increases total T but I've also seen several studies showing that it increases SHBG. That means it won't increase free T or it won't increase it as much as SFA would. So SFA may have an edge for people that want to maximise free T.

    Not that I think it will make a big difference for most people. Although, if you're looking to maximise strength/muscle higher free T is always preferable I believe. At the same time increasing SFA is also likely to worsen lipids in most, in my opinion.
    Fascinating!

    While your occasional pedantry can get annoying, this is exactly why we need you on these forums. You have an encyclopedic knowledge and an ability to see the details everyone else misses that I think is nothing short of genius. If you retire, it'll be a horrible loss for the forum. Don't leave, bro!
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    One thing I find peculiar about the Volek study that there was a guy in there with a total T of 5 nmol/L, which is too low/below the normal range. The guy was on an ultra low fat diet. If they had removed this guy from the data set (which I think they should have) I think a lot of the relations they found are close to noise.

    About the monounsaturated fat, there's more support for that it increases total T but I've also seen several studies showing that it increases SHBG. That means it won't increase free T or it won't increase it as much as SFA would. So SFA may have an edge for people that want to maximise free T.

    Not that I think it will make a big difference for most people. Although, if you're looking to maximise strength/muscle higher free T is always preferable I believe. At the same time increasing SFA is also likely to worsen lipids in most, in my opinion.
    Strawng, Adam, EiFit, and everyone else who regularly posts on this forum seems to have some kind of legitimate experience with nutrition from a scientific standpoint. I just lift and eat and draw upon layman's reading and my own experience. I appreciate the scientific exposition, and would be upset if it took a back seat to miscing.
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  14. #74
    Registered User EiFit91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    Fascinating!

    While your occasional pedantry can get annoying, this is exactly why we need you on these forums. You have an encyclopedic knowledge and an ability to see the details everyone else misses that I think is nothing short of genius. If you retire, it'll be a horrible loss for the forum. Don't leave, bro!
    Seconded.

    The reason I so much like discussing with you mrpb, and why I tend to start with the contrarian opinion, is that I know that you will wipe the floor with me in that discussion, poking out the holes in my reasoning.

    I already learned a lot from those exchanges, and I hope to learn much more.
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    bump for answers
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    Eat like a man
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    I think the can of oysters a day thing would do more for testosterone than adjusting saturated fat.
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    I think the can of oysters a day thing would do more for testosterone than adjusting saturated fat.
    oysters and a few brazil nuts

    meat and nut breakfast is the breakfast of champions (aka elite athletes)
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    It's funny nobody has mentioned that high carb diets actually tend to increase testosterone....

    Also that some studies show high protein diets tend to reduce it.

    I don't think we have a full understanding of all the mechanisms at play or if any of these changes in test would even result in a measurable benefit to muscle gain or performance.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 06-27-2021 at 12:52 PM.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    It's funny nobody has mentioned that high carb diets actually tend to increase testosterone....

    Also that some studies show high protein diets tend to reduce it.

    I don't think we have a full understanding of all the mechanisms at play or if any of these changes in test would even result in a measurable benefit to muscle gain or performance.
    this is true

    some of it is genetics/indiviual based. just like you have morning people and evening people (i like being up early).

    i have high carbs in the morning and i feel sluggish all day....i have them at night and i feel great. i'm a fan of carbs post workout. when i say carbs i'm referring to whole food carb sources, i don't expect anyone in this forum to have chocolate cake chased with a liter of cola for their pre workout meal.

    when it comes to hormones, the best way again is on an individual basis. although it would make sense if your levels are elevated vs on the lower side over an extended period of time would be beneficial. there is good reason why athletes are always looking for an edge.
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    this is true

    some of it is genetics/indiviual based. just like you have morning people and evening people (i like being up early).

    i have high carbs in the morning and i feel sluggish all day....i have them at night and i feel great. i'm a fan of carbs post workout. when i say carbs i'm referring to whole food carb sources, i don't expect anyone in this forum to have chocolate cake chased with a liter of cola for their pre workout meal.

    when it comes to hormones, the best way again is on an individual basis. although it would make sense if your levels are elevated vs on the lower side over an extended period of time would be beneficial. there is good reason why athletes are always looking for an edge.
    Certainly true.

    Insulin, stomach acidity, enzymes, gluten tolerance, a lot of things can effect the outcome of nutrition on hormones.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  22. #82
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    While there seems to be a lot we don’t know yet I think the evidence is clear that a low-fat diet is bad for testosterone levels (on average). Here is a new systematic review of intervention studies:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60076021000716

    They mention that the switch towards a low-fat diet may be a part of the reason for the drop in testosterone levels in western countries. Found that interesting.

    They also mention other evidence that MFAs increase testosterone.
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    - Richard Feynman
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