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  1. #31
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    I dub thee Eli the Prophesized.
    And your forthcoming fitness book shall hereby be known as The Book of Eli.
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  2. #32
    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    **** training abs xD
    If I have the option of laying down and crunch or do another pissing plank... Or dying? I'd rather die.

    Id do supramax front or zercher squat walkouts instead..
    I MAY be convinced to do ab wheel rolls to at least hammer my lats and brachialis.

    The biggest problem I see is people confuse the words squat, bench and dead to only mean.....

    Back squat
    Flat bench
    Conv dead..

    And that's just not the case in 99% of conversations. Think more of patterns, as everyone's execution is different anyway.

    I think of dozens of variations, Not 3 archetypal movements.

    Bars, Dummers and bw are great because its the only real way to compare properly.. Cos machine be random as **** for loading. Who cares tho.. Hyp is easy and doesnt require comparisons of lifts with anyone, just mass results
    Last edited by MyEgoProblem; 06-02-2021 at 05:54 PM.
    FMH crew - Couch.
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    I don't always reply to threads. Cos I don't always remember I posted in the first place😅
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  3. #33
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    **** training abs xD
    If I have the option of laying down and crunch or do another pissing plank... Or dying? I'd rather die.

    Id do supramax front or zercher squat walkouts instead..
    I MAY be convinced to do ab wheel rolls to at least hammer my lats and brachialis.

    The biggest problem I see is people confuse the words squat, bench and dead to only mean.....

    Back squat
    Flat bench
    Conv dead..

    And that's just not the case in 99% of conversations. Think more of patterns, as everyone's execution is different anyway.

    I think of dozens of variations, Not 3 archetypal movements.

    Bars, Dummers and bw are great because its the only real way to compare properly.. Cos machine be random as **** for loading. Who cares tho.. Hyp is easy and doesnt require comparisons of lifts with anyone, just mass results
    I do cobra poses, reverse planks, some random rollouts here and there, and goblet squat holds for time. Grab a 100-125 and just hold there a few times for up to a minute each.
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  4. #34
    Registered User jaxqen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VTLifts View Post
    Just came across a Mark Bell podcast with Doug Brignole and ended up listening to additional interviews with him.

    www.dougbrignole.com

    I think he's 61, won Mr. Universe at 59. Been in industry for decades, so has lots of practical knowledge

    He used to train compounds, but now sticks to isolation and his core "20 exercises".

    He is entirely hypertrophy focused and approaches exercises with a pure biomechanics/physics mindset with the goal to maximize the difficulty for the specific muscle being targeted and nothing else.

    His advice is controversial as he trashes a lot of traditional thinking: i.e.:

    Hates barbell back squats, loves sissy squats and leg extensions
    Hates barbell rows, loves lat pull-ins (not pull-downs)
    Hates incline chest presses, loves decline DB
    Hates overhead pressing, etc..

    At first I thought he was just another fitness guy trying to be different just to get clicks, sell a book, etc.., but started to wonder if he's speaking some truth here as his explanations are compelling and people who have followed his methods rave about their results.

    Curious if anyone has spent more time understanding his philosophy, read his book, etc.. or just has general thoughts?
    Thoughts?

    1. First of all, what answers did you expect on this forum? "Yeah, bro, my back got huge from pull-ins too"?

    2. So if he hates a certain exercise, you must hate it too? How about try it and see how you respond to it?

    3. Decline DB press is a compound. Isn't sissy squat a compound too? Or the pull-in? You use free weight and at least two joints...

    4. I don't get this type of discussion.
    - if you want bigger legs, you need a knee bend exercise (barbell squat, leg press, kb squat, smith squat hack squat) and a hip hinge (DL, RDL, stiff DL)
    - if you want bigger back, you need some at least a type of horizontal pull (barbell, cable, machine, t-bar, whatever) and/or a vertical pull (cable, free, machine)
    - if you want bigger chest, you need a type press (barbell, dumbell, incline, decline, flat, hammer machine, whatever)
    - if you want bigger arms, you need some type of curl (hammer, barbell, preacher) and some type of extension (cable, db, bb) - unless you have EliKoehn's genetics and you can have Lee Priest arms only by doing bench and row. (kidding, dude )

    There are some accesories, like leg extensions, which can clearly help, but not as much as a leg press. Or cable flyes, but I doubt one can built a chest only with them. But the base is: hip hinge, knee bend, horizontall pull, horizontall push, vertical pull, vertical push. Some prefer barbell, some cables, some machines, but this is the base. Some prefer doing the standard exercises (barbell row, flat bench), some prefer variations (t-bar row, decline db bench). But again, the base is the same. I would add a seventh one: a rotational type of exercise, but that is extremely important for power/athletics/mma, for hypertrophy doesn't really matter.
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  5. #35
    Registered User jaxqen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Narrator02 View Post
    It's debatable if he's enhanced. He's been lifting for many years and he's not a mass monster at all. Very muscular and symmetrical but not massive.
    I've read his stuff and he bases his movements off the way he interprets muscle movement and function. He feels that his way is the most efficient to build muscle. Even if you don't agree with his theories, it's still an interesting read.
    It's not debatable. If that guy is natural, then:
    - Jeff Cavaliere can deadlift how much he said he can deadlift;
    - Jeff Nippard is a at least medium height person;
    - Greg Nuckols is a shredded handsome guy;

    And his natural status doesn't really matter. It can be an interesting read, then you can apply it in your gym. If it works for you, that's great. If not, move on!
    For me, I don't think cable pull-ins could replace rows. You can definitely feel some upper lats, but it's not a row. But if it works for him.
    Fo me, I've tried decline db press, doesn't work as good as a flat bb bench press.

    Also, his concept is not that new or different.
    Vince Gironda, Vince Taylor and others, all had similar ideas.
    And they looked great.
    Gironda looked f***** amazing before the juice era, the photoshop, the camera shots and many other things.
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  6. #36
    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    I was thinking about this more and while above I made a case that I believe is legitimate for why leg extensions can be used to fully stimulate the quadriceps muscles, I'm curious if there could be non-muscular factors that play a role as well. I have never come across any evidence to indicate this, but perhaps significant axial loading with squats would somehow cause the release of hypertrophic paracrine factors from the bones or connective tissue that? If that's the case then some significant weight-bearing exercise would be required to maximize hypertrophy. Just speculation.
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  7. #37
    CEO 10k/year Ironface's Avatar
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    A few things to consider:

    - What works for enhanced trainees won’t necessarily work for a natty

    - Isolation only training can only be done on a bro split. Forget doing full body or U/L with only isolations. You’re going to be in the gym for hours.

    - You’re going to have to spend more time in the gym throughout the week. Isolations lose to compounds in terms of time economy

    - It’s harder to progressively overload on isolations. Taking your deadlift from 365lbs to 370lbs is alot easier than taking your hamstring curl from 60lbs to 65lbs (or however much people do on them, I haven’t done a hamstring curl in years). You’re working progressive overload with smaller percentages, and you have more muscles contributing to the movement.

    By all means experiment, but I don’t think it’s a good idea. It’s certainly not ideal for strength.
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  8. #38
    Registered User jaxqen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ironface View Post
    You’re going to be in the gym for hours.
    .
    Short rests and/or myo-reps implemented could shorten the time.
    But yeah, it will take longer.
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  9. #39
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    There's the issue of untrained or incompetently trained individuals, where compounds are basically more telling of strength competency and an indication for projecting future lifts.

    Then there's the chemical energy factor I think. If all you're doing is compounds then you need a lot more strength per workout. Then again time as indicated by IronFace might balance that out. The extra energy isn't going into localized muscle hypertrophy but stabilizer tension.

    I'm not perfect at this obviously, but I think this guy was more in the latter camp.
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  10. #40
    Registered User Garage Rat's Avatar
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    He's enhanced.
    He admits it and believes in it for the older lifter.
    I believe he talks about it on "Rick's Corner"on youtube.
    What don't like is he won the recent AAU Mr Universe last year which is suppose to be a drug free contest as far as i know.
    So much for drug testing.
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  11. #41
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Garage Rat View Post
    He's enhanced.
    He admits it and believes in it for the older lifter.
    I believe he talks about it on "Rick's Corner"on youtube.
    What don't like is he won the recent AAU Mr Universe last year which is suppose to be a drug free contest as far as i know.
    So much for drug testing.
    If you’re at the top level of any strength or physique sport, you’re on something. No way around it.
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  12. #42
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    If you’re at the top level of any strength or physique sport, you’re on something. No way around it.
    Or you give bad advice intentionally to throw your enemies off your trail.
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  13. #43
    on probation weiss1967's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VTLifts View Post
    Hates incline chest presses, loves decline DB
    it shows! The lack of his upper chest is so pronounced that it is ridiculous. There is literally an impression where there should have been a bump. I mean, on some pictures there is a shadow like moon crater or something. How can accomplished lifter hate some exercises and love other ones? The whole idea of building, sculpting the body is about doing exercises that you hate the most, because this is where you definitely lack and need to pick up.
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  14. #44
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    by the way, there are many good comments on this thread, if I did not rep means I am on spread
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  15. #45
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by weiss1967 View Post
    it shows! The lack of his upper chest is so pronounced that it is ridiculous. There is literally an impression where there should have been a bump. I mean, on some pictures there is a shadow like moon crater or something. How can accomplished lifter hate some exercises and love other ones? The whole idea of building, sculpting the body is about doing exercises that you hate the most, because this is where you definitely lack and need to pick up.
    Apparently, and there have been numerous studies on this, is that incline doesn’t really do all that much for upper chest hypertrophy. And those same studies say decline works it just as much, if not more.

    My go to exercises for upper chest are reverse grip DB presses on a flat bench and underhand front raises.
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  16. #46
    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Apparently, and there have been numerous studies on this, is that incline doesn’t really do all that much for upper chest hypertrophy. And those same studies say decline works it just as much, if not more.
    Per this study published last year 30 degrees incline has more activation of the upper chest than 0/15/45/60 degrees. https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/19/7339

    I haven't read that study and to be honest I don't like EMG for this type of thing (despite it being used frequently in this field); this would be a good topic for a separate thread.
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  17. #47
    Registered User damnyankee20's Avatar
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    As I have taken gross anatomy in medical school, his approach is correct.

    For the ultimate contraction of any muscle, the lever (arm, leg, etc) must move the weight ALONG THE DIRECTION OF THE MUSCLE FIBERS to the point of the muscle's origin (which is usually the bones of greater mass along the axis of the skeleton or towards the axis of the skeleton).

    If that doesn't make sense, look at muscle anatomy charts online. Follow the muscle fibers and note that's the direction the weight you are lifting should be moving (both positive and negatives).

    There are better exercises than squats, barbell presses, etc that will equally load up those muscles at a fraction of the weight AND will save your back and joints.
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  18. #48
    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by damnyankee20 View Post
    As I have taken gross anatomy in medical school, his approach is correct.

    For the ultimate contraction of any muscle, the lever (arm, leg, etc) must move the weight ALONG THE DIRECTION OF THE MUSCLE FIBERS to the point of the muscle's origin (which is usually the bones of greater mass along the axis of the skeleton or towards the axis of the skeleton).

    If that doesn't make sense, look at muscle anatomy charts online. Follow the muscle fibers and note that's the direction the weight you are lifting should be moving (both positive and negatives).

    There are better exercises than squats, barbell presses, etc that will equally load up those muscles at a fraction of the weight AND will save your back and joints.
    I am a doctor myself. You need to seriously question your medical education if you are learning that squats and barbell presses are bad for the joints. Also, do not overlook the load-bearing benefits of free weight compound movements for bone mineral density, balance/proprioception, etc.
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  19. #49
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    I am a doctor myself. You need to seriously question your medical education if you are learning that squats and barbell presses are bad for the joints. Also, do not overlook the load-bearing benefits of free weight compound movements for bone mineral density, balance/proprioception, etc.
    I’d like to think he means that there are better ways to work certain muscle groups without just plugging away at “the big 4” and he would be right.

    They go a long way especially for a beginner but at some point, you’re gonna have to move on to harder variations, and different movements altogether, if you want to keep building muscle.
    Last edited by BeginnerGainz; 09-20-2021 at 07:35 AM.
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    CEO 10k/year Ironface's Avatar
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    It’s fukking retarded

    hope this helps
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  21. #51
    You mirin? VTLifts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by damnyankee20 View Post
    As I have taken gross anatomy in medical school, his approach is correct.

    For the ultimate contraction of any muscle, the lever (arm, leg, etc) must move the weight ALONG THE DIRECTION OF THE MUSCLE FIBERS to the point of the muscle's origin (which is usually the bones of greater mass along the axis of the skeleton or towards the axis of the skeleton).

    If that doesn't make sense, look at muscle anatomy charts online. Follow the muscle fibers and note that's the direction the weight you are lifting should be moving (both positive and negatives).

    There are better exercises than squats, barbell presses, etc that will equally load up those muscles at a fraction of the weight AND will save your back and joints.
    Doug, is that you?


    But good debate / critiques in this thread.
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