Natural Immunity Vs Vaccine Immunity

[dabbmw2002]

About 0.4 percent of patients who previously tested positive for COVID-19 tested positive again after 90 days, according to Epic Health Research Network data released April 23.

Researchers at the Verona, Wis.-based company analyzed lab test data from 98 healthcare organizations covering 63 million patients. According to the CDC, a positive test within 90 days of initial onset of illness is more likely to represent continued viral shedding than reinfection, so researchers focused on results after 90 days.

Epic data found 396,883 patients who had at least one positive result, and 37,489 patients who had two or more positive test results during the study. Only 0.4 percent of the patients, or 1,601 patients, had a subsequent positive test at least 90 days after their initial positive test, indicating possible reinfection.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...d%20April%2023.

People who had COVID-19 had an 84% lower risk of becoming reinfected and a 93% lower risk of symptomatic infection during 7 months of follow-up, according to findings from a large, multicenter study published late last week in The Lancet.

Among the baseline-positive group, 50.3% of infections were symptomatic, with 32.3% involving usual coronavirus symptoms. Among the baseline-negative cohort, 80.3% of infections were symptomatic, 66.1% of them involving usual COVID-19 symptoms.

This bit interesting, because it shows half of reinfections dont have symptoms and of those who did get symptoms, only 32.3% had Coronavirus symptoms, meaning the rest primarily had cold symptoms.

In a commentary in the same journal, Florian Krammer, PhD, of the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City, said that although natural infection tends to induce lower and more variable antibody concentrations than COVID-19 vaccines, "the findings of the authors suggest that infection and the development of an antibody response provides protection similar to or even better than currently used SARS-CoV-2 vaccines.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...reinfection-84


Some interesting things to note. Immunity from reinfection goes down with age. Those over 65 or more susceptible to reinfection do to weaker immune system. Younger patients, especially those under 40 who an initially immune response have much stronger protection.

Why is this important? If the effectiveness of the J&J vaccine is 66%, why should younger people under 40 who have had Covid be required to vaccinate? Statistically, natural immunity is stronger than the J&J vaccine. I have no problem with vaccination however the insistence that everyone take it regardless of previous infection seems to go against the science. For elderly, I absolute support it. For the younger uninfected, I would encourage it, especially those with comorbidities. But, since we are seeing so many people getting infected despite being vaccinated, and we are seeing support groups popping up for people having lots of issues with the vaccine, I think encouraging vaccination on the previously young infected is harmful and exposes them to unnecessary risk.

[DKM89]

Thank you for this post.
My wife and I (32) both recently had covid with the typical symptoms, yet surprised to hear the push for us to get the vaccine (have been told we only need one dose, since we've already had covid.. I don't understand why). Haven't seen anyone give a reasonable explanation as to why we should still get the vaccine

[Antoine99]

Strong this, there should be something like the vaccine card but for natural immunity.

That said it's been about 7 months since I got covid hold me misc

[BeginnerGainz]

Strong this, there should be something like the vaccine card but for natural immunity.

That said it's been about 7 months since I got covid hold me misc

There shouldn’t be any cards, regardless if you had it already (I did) or got vaccinated.

The only good those cards are for is virtue signaling. Pretty soon vaxx-cels are gonna need to carry around a binder for all the boosters they are gonna have to get.

[dabbmw2002]

Strong this, there should be something like the vaccine card but for natural immunity.

That said it's been about 7 months since I got covid hold me misc

I tested antibody positive a year after my covid infection, so they are hanging in there. My sister tested positive for antibodies while giving blood, but she never had a symptom. Her last antibody test however was negative, so she is considering vaccination.

Everyone's situation is unique and people should take into consideration their own set of circumstances when choose what to do, and it should be made with coercion from any political body.

[ltsOgre]

That's insane you would rather give your older relatives covid rather than a vaccine.

[BeginnerGainz]

I tested positive a year after my covid infection, so they are hanging in there. My sister tested positive for antibodies while giving blood, but she never had a symptom. Her last antibody test however was negative, so she is considering vaccination.
No
Everyone's situation is unique and people should take into consideration their own set of circumstances when choose what to do, and it should be made with coercion from any political body.

Depending on what kind of test she had, they can have wildly different results. If they test for the spike protein binding antibodies, it can come up negative even after having Covid.

[nosirrahx]

Strong this, there should be something like the vaccine card but for natural immunity.

Its going to be the opposite.

I am already seeing my far left friends posting stuff implying that "science is going to leave our outdated immune systems behind."

Stating that "I had COVID-19 and recovered so I'm not getting vaccinated" already gets you shunned in my area. They are treating this like you said voodoo is protecting you.

[Paul Kreul]

Yea, even the NYTimes has admitted this..

“Immunity to the Coronavirus May Last Years, New Data Hint
Blood samples from recovered patients suggest a powerful, long-lasting immune response, researchers reported.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...unity.amp.html

And another study here.

“Persistence of Antibody and Cellular Immune Responses in COVID-19 patients over Nine Months after Infection”

https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance...iab255/6274562

[Dave22reborn]

Why are they pushing for 12-15 year olds to get vaccinated?

[dabbmw2002]

Its going to be the opposite.

I am already seeing my far left friends posting stuff implying that "science is going to leave our outdated immune systems behind."

Stating that "I had COVID-19 and recovered so I'm not getting vaccinated" already gets you shunned in my area. They are treating this like you said voodoo is protecting you.

considering that immunity is superior to the J&J vaccine, you would think this would be enough. This is why I'm skeptical in part to the vaccine. People are abandoning science and rational thinking in encouraging people to get vaccinated despite not needing it and subjecting themselves to possible side effects from a vax they don't need.

Just like outdoor masks, useless, and the science says so. When the government supports things that are unscientific it undermines their credibility.

[nosirrahx]

Why are they pushing for 12-15 year olds to get vaccinated?

To normalize "the benevolent government says I need this injection."

The existing chain of events for a vaccination to come into existence was a massive PITA, so they created a "new normal".

[nosirrahx]

considering that immunity is superior to the J&J vaccine, you would think this would be enough. This is why I'm skeptical in part to the vaccine. People are abandoning science and rational thinking in encouraging people to get vaccinated despite not needing it and subjecting themselves to possible side effects from a vax they don't need.

Just like outdoor masks, useless, and the science says so. When the government supports things that are unscientific it undermines their credibility.

This is a conversation from earlier today. This is the state of the left right now:

[dabbmw2002]

This is a conversation from earlier today. This is the state of the left right now:

People have been hospitalized after second covid infection , AND after getting vaccinated. Age, comorbities, genetics and initial disease severity all play a role.

Vaccination isn't a silver bullet, and neither is natural immunity. There is no way to mitigate all risks.

[Antoine99]

I tested antibody positive a year after my covid infection, so they are hanging in there. My sister tested positive for antibodies while giving blood, but she never had a symptom. Her last antibody test however was negative, so she is considering vaccination.

Everyone's situation is unique and people should take into consideration their own set of circumstances when choose what to do, and it should be made with coercion from any political body.

Maybe if you were asymptomatic it isn't as good, I had a mild case but wasn't asymptomatic.

My father had covid and was hospitalized and I thought I could donate blood to give him some antibodies or something, but apparently it wasn't that serious.

[badreligion]

People have been hospitalized after second covid infection , AND after getting vaccinated. Age, comorbities, genetics and initial disease severity all play a role.

Vaccination isn't a silver bullet, and neither is natural immunity. There is no way to mitigate all risks.

Something that can bolster it is vitamin D.

[dabbmw2002]

Maybe if you were asymptomatic it isn't as good, I had a mild case but wasn't asymptomatic.

It isn't, but some get decent protection,some dont. For the asymptomatic crowd, whether or not to get vaccinated is tougher decision.

Edit- glad your father is alright. The therapeutic are much improved thankfully

[5x10]

Thank you for this post.
My wife and I (32) both recently had covid with the typical symptoms, yet surprised to hear the push for us to get the vaccine (have been told we only need one dose, since we've already had covid.. I don't understand why). Haven't seen anyone give a reasonable explanation as to why we should still get the vaccine

there isn’t a logical explanation

[Fishman15]

Yea, even the NYTimes has admitted this..

“Immunity to the Coronavirus May Last Years, New Data Hint
Blood samples from recovered patients suggest a powerful, long-lasting immune response, researchers reported.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...unity.amp.html

And another study here.

“Persistence of Antibody and Cellular Immune Responses in COVID-19 patients over Nine Months after Infection”

https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance...iab255/6274562

This is really going to be depressing for the left. This will need scrubbed off the internet you know like with a cloth...

[badreligion]

Yea, even the NYTimes has admitted this..

“Immunity to the Coronavirus May Last Years, New Data Hint
Blood samples from recovered patients suggest a powerful, long-lasting immune response, researchers reported.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...unity.amp.html

And another study here.

“Persistence of Antibody and Cellular Immune Responses in COVID-19 patients over Nine Months after Infection”

https://academic.oup.com/jid/advance...iab255/6274562

Makes sense, isn't the antibodies for people contracted SARS still active all these years later and some are even immune to this?

[Antoine99]

It isn't, but some get decent protection,some dont. For the asymptomatic crowd, whether or not to get vaccinated is tougher decision.

Edit- glad your father is alright. Are therapeutic are much improved thankfully

Thanks, I wonder what they treated him with. He won't say he probably doesn't even know.

[Jayarbie]

https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...d%20April%2023.


This bit interesting, because it shows half of reinfections dont have symptoms and of those who did get symptoms, only 32.3% had Coronavirus symptoms, meaning the rest primarily had cold symptoms.




https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...reinfection-84


Some interesting things to note. Immunity from reinfection goes down with age. Those over 65 or more susceptible to reinfection do to weaker immune system. Younger patients, especially those under 40 who an initially immune response have much stronger protection.

Why is this important? If the effectiveness of the J&J vaccine is 66%, why should younger people under 40 who have had Covid be required to vaccinate? Statistically, natural immunity is stronger than the J&J vaccine. I have no problem with vaccination however the insistence that everyone take it regardless of previous infection seems to go against the science. For elderly, I absolute support it. For the younger uninfected, I would encourage it, especially those with comorbidities. But, since we are so many people getting infected despite being vaccinated, and we are seeing support groups popping for people having lots of issues with the vaccine, I think encouraging vaccination on the previously young infected is harmful and exposes them to unnecessary risk.

It's not surprising that reinfections tend to be less severe or asymptomatic regardless of antibodies. People produce T-cells to fight infections, and they last much longer than antibodies. T-cells don't work as well as antibodies because they fight off the virus after infection instead of preventing the infection altogether, but if the correct T-cells are present, they will mitigate the infection much more quickly, so that reinfections are much less severe than the first infection. I haven't seen anything yet about whether the vaccines stimulate the production of T-cells or not. I suspect that traditional vaccines like the JnJ or AstraZeneca probably do since those introduce weaker viruses into the body to stimulate immunity defenses. I'm not sure if the mRNA vaccines would do that or not.

[Paul Kreul]

It's not surprising that reinfections tend to be less severe or asymptomatic regardless of antibodies. People produce T-cells to fight infections, and they last much longer than antibodies. T-cells don't work as well as antibodies because they fight off the virus after infection instead of preventing the infection altogether, but if the correct T-cells are present, they will mitigate the infection much more quickly, so that reinfections are much less severe than the first infection. I haven't seen anything yet about whether the vaccines stimulate the production of T-cells or not. I suspect that traditional vaccines like the JnJ or AstraZeneca probably do since those introduce weaker viruses into the body to stimulate immunity defenses. I'm not sure if the mRNA vaccines would do that or not.

Ubiquitous viruses are fought and defeated primarily by the T-Cell lymphocytes within our immune systems, Not from natural or artificially implanted antibodies..which is evident in the links I posted above.

[chaunce54]

This bit interesting, because it shows half of reinfections dont have symptoms and of those who did get symptoms, only 32.3% had Coronavirus symptoms, meaning the rest primarily had cold symptoms.

Well, it is a common cold virus...

[Jayarbie]

Well, it is a common cold virus...

Sort of. It's from a family of cold viruses, but calling it a "common cold virus" is like calling Spanish Flu a "normal flu virus". It behaves like other viruses of its type, but is a far, far more severe variant.

[Skwidward]

There shouldn’t be any cards, regardless if you had it already (I did) or got vaccinated.

The only good those cards are for is virtue signaling. Pretty soon vaxx-cels are gonna need to carry around a binder for all the boosters they are gonna have to get.

Google “shot records”

It’s quite a common thing. I have a pile of papers with all my immunizations and titers in it.

[chaunce54]

Sort of. It's from a family of cold viruses, but calling it a "common cold virus" is like calling Spanish Flu a "normal flu virus". It behaves like other viruses of its type, but is a far, far more severe variant.

Yeah, for like one year...

[chaunce54]

Google “shot records”

It’s quite a common thing. I have a pile of papers with all my immunizations and titers in it.

And do you carry them around with you so you can present them on demand?

[Skwidward]

And do you carry them around with you so you can present them on demand?

Not on my person, but yes. That’s why I, and the rest of the civilized world, keep shot records... lol

[Jayarbie]

Yeah, for like one year...

Spanish flu, Asian flu, and Hong Kong flu all had 2 full winter peaks before mutating to be less severe. It's unknown with this whether last March was the first peak and this winter the second or if there will be another peak coming up this fall/winter, too. Regardless, like all of the other viral pandemics, it should calm down over the summer and restrictions should be lifted now for at least until the fall (or permanently if there is no new big spike of hospitalizations and serious cases in the fall).