Why do vaccinated people care that non vaccinated people aren’t getting vaccinated?

[tunejunkie]

Why do they care? They’re protected.

[Dave22reborn]

Like women, they just need something to bitch about.....

[Bushmaster]

Been kinda wondering that myself... On one hand they'll tell you "You do you!"

While on the other they shiit their fuking pants over people not wearing masks or getting vaccinated.

[leafs43]

Because they are self centered narcissistic little chits who believe everyone needs to conform to their whims that are fueled by their feelings.

[ItsJamesthefin]

I always lol at libs who tell me I need to get vaccinated. I'll take my chances. Ill be curious to see if in a few years cancer and autoimmune rates rise.

[DeshaunWatson]

They’re a cult. Mentally ill cult.







Baaaahhhhhh

[Droopdx]

Still trying to wrap my mind around it.

I guess their argument is that you can spread corona to someone who can’t get the vaccine for whatever reason, but you can still have the vaccine and spread covid, so???

[Rabbitjb]

Herd immunity you abject morons

[tunejunkie]

Herd immunity you abject morons

Lol no. If you get the vaccine you’re protected right? At that point the spread is a moot point

[Rabbitjb]

Lol no. If you get the vaccine you’re protected right? At that point the spread is a moot point

How to explain to someone that they should give a fuk about other people, the society they live in and getting restrictions rescinded

Try not sucking so hard

[kusok]

Herd immunity you abject morons

Can you explain this further?

[katya422]

Why do they care? They’re protected.

Admit that I don't get it either.

- We know generally which people aren't likely to become seriously ill even if they do not get the vaccine.

- We know that getting the vaccine doesn't prevent getting the virus or spreading the virus to other people.

- Presently the virus is changing a lot and there seems to be a consensus building that to avoid infection one will have to continue getting new injections for the new varieties.

Herd immunity you abject morons

Hey Rabbit, been a long time bby.



Guess I'm a moron. Herd immunity isn't going to happen IMO. The virus is changing too quickly.

[ezmac31]

How to explain to someone that they should give a fuk about other people, the society they live in and getting restrictions rescinded

Try not sucking so hard

Unalienable rights cannot be taken and thus cannot be rescinded. The health of the individual is the responsibility of that individual only. If you’re scared, stay home.

Probably hard for an obedient little government shill to understand

[Rabbitjb]

Hey Katya, hows it going

Coronaviruses, like flus always mutate, doesn’t mean that a decent vaccination programme doesn’t protect the wider community

Anyway bored chitless of Covid, we are coming out of 2nd peak and life is going back to normal thankfully

[Bushmaster]

How to explain to someone that they should give a fuk about other people, the society they live in and getting restrictions rescinded

Try not sucking so hard

Damn bro, nobody said you had to drink ALL the Kool-Aid!

[Droopdx]

Admit that I don't get it either.

- We know generally which people aren't likely to become seriously ill even if they do not get the vaccine.

- We know that getting the vaccine doesn't prevent getting the virus or spreading the virus to other people.

- Presently the virus is changing a lot and there seems to be a consensus building that to avoid infection one will have to continue getting new injections for the new varieties.



Hey Rabbit, been a long time bby.



Guess I'm a moron. Herd immunity isn't going to happen IMO. The virus is changing too quickly.

Yeah... the people screeching about others getting the vaccine want this to be a group project so bad, but it’s clearly a solo project.

[Rabbitjb]

Unalienable rights cannot be taken and thus cannot be rescinded. The health of the individual is the responsibility of that individual only. If you’re scared, stay home.

Probably hard for an obedient little government shill to understand

You aren’t an island

You’re a part of society

It doesn’t make you big or clever to pretend, or to actually, not give a chit about other people. It makes you a sociopath

[nctarheels21]

Here's a simple how to:

-walk into store without a mask
-Employee says "sir can you please put on a mask"
-Me: "Oh I'm vaccinated "
-"You still have to wear a mask!"
-"Why? does the vaccine not work?!"

Boom.

[Droopdx]

You aren’t an island

You’re a part of society

It doesn’t make you big or clever to pretend, or to actually, not give a chit about other people. It makes you a sociopath

Only need 70% for herd immunity? He’s 38 and in good shape according to his avi. Wouldn’t that put him in the 30% that don’t need to get it?

[Rabbitjb]

Only need 70% for herd immunity? He’s 38 and in good shape according to his avi. Wouldn’t that put him in the 30% that don’t need to get it?

And...that’s not how it works.gif

[tunejunkie]

How to explain to someone that they should give a fuk about other people, the society they live in and getting restrictions rescinded

Try not sucking so hard

Everyone has made their choice. They either get vaccinated or they don’t.

It’s not about caring about other people. It’s an individual choice. They’ve made their choice for their own lives. So life moves on.

If someone chooses to get the vax they know the risks.

If someone chooses not to get the vax they know the risks.

Why is there this obsession with wanting someone go one way or the other.

[ohiostate124]

Herd immunity you abject morons

Thats not what herd immunity actually means bud

[tunejunkie]

Thats not what herd immunity actually means bud

Exactly lol. Was gonna bring this up also lol

[Droopdx]

And...that’s not how it works.gif

K. Trying to understand.

[katya422]

Hey Katya, hows it going

Coronaviruses, like flus always mutate, doesn’t mean that a decent vaccination programme doesn’t protect the wider community

Anyway bored chitless of Covid, we are coming out of 2nd peak and life is going back to normal thankfully

I think everyone is bored chitless of Covid. Except for poor India right now.

I get the community thing. If you are old/fat/in poor health then you should probably get the vaccination so that at least there is less chance you will be an unnecessary burden on the health system.

Right now here they are starting to push having people under 18 get stuck and it doesn't make sense to me.

If getting vaccinated would prevent you getting ill or spreading the virus to other people then I could see it- by being vaccinated you would reduce overall infection rates in your community.

But they say it doesn't do that. Just CA has reported over 3,000 breakthrough cases in fully vaccinated people. We were fairly sure previously that a lot of people who get infected and are ill are never actually tested because they don't seek out testing or their symptoms are quite mild.

And last I read we would have to have 80% vaccinated or some such for herd immunity. Until another variant takes over and it needs to be done again.

[EdwardTheGreat]

Herd immunity you abject morons

So since the vaccines available do not provide immunity, how are we going to reach that?

As someone who has had covid, why do I need to get this vax? I have natural immunity now, don't I? And since vaccination doesn't prevent you from getting or spreading covid, how does getting vaxxed offer anything other than potentially reduced severity of symptoms for the person who got vaxxed, and nothing else?

[Rabbitjb]

So since the vaccines available do not provide immunity, how are we going to reach that?

As someone who has had covid, why do I need to get this vax? I have natural immunity now, don't I? And since vaccination doesn't prevent you from getting or spreading covid, how does getting vaxxed offer anything other than potentially reduced severity of symptoms for the person who got vaxxed, and nothing else?

You can get covid twice, vaccination can only boost your immunity and nobody knows how long your immunity might last

I worked out today, why would I work out again?

Anyhoo you do boo

Tired of boors

[jtaylor2010]

Hey Katya, hows it going

Coronaviruses, like flus always mutate, doesn’t mean that a decent vaccination programme doesn’t protect the wider community

Anyway bored chitless of Covid, we are coming out of 2nd peak and life is going back to normal thankfully

It’s quite possible that the vaccines are simply putting a very specific evolutionary pressure on the virus which is encouraging it to mutate in a certain way. So there’s a good chance everyone who gets vaccinated is just increasing the likelihood that a vaccine resistant variant will emerge(spoiler....it will). If you think you need to get vaccinated then go right ahead, but just lol at saying “anyone who doesn’t get vaccinated doesn’t care about other people”.

[jtaylor2010]

Also feel like this deserves a spot in this thread since the other thread died







Geert Vanden Bossche received his DVM from the University of Ghent, Belgium, and his PhD degree in Virology from the University of Hohenheim, Germany. He held adjunct faculty appointments at universities in Belgium and Germany. After his career in Academia, Geert joined several vaccine companies (GSK Biologicals, Novartis Vaccines, Solvay Biologicals) to serve various roles in vaccine R&D as well as in late vaccine development. Geert then moved on to join the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s Global Health Discovery team in Seattle (USA) as Senior Program Officer; he then worked with the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization (GAVI) in Geneva as Senior Ebola Program Manager. At GAVI he tracked efforts to develop an Ebola vaccine. He also represented GAVI in fora with other partners, including WHO, to review progress on the fight against Ebola and to build plans for global pandemic preparedness. Back in 2015, Geert scrutinized and questioned the safety of the Ebola vaccine that was used in ring vaccination trials conducted by WHO in Guinea. His critical scientific analysis and report on the data published by WHO in the Lancet in 2015 was sent to all international health and regulatory authorities involved in the Ebola vaccination program. After working for GAVI, Geert joined the German Center for Infection Research in Cologne as Head of the Vaccine Development Office. He is at present primarily serving as a Biotech/ Vaccine consultant while also conducting his own research on Natural Killer cell-based vaccines.






https://37b32f5a-6ed9-4d6d-b3e1-5ec6...707c64b79d.pdf


Why do Covid-19 mass vaccinaton campaigns promote dominance of selectve immune escape variants?
- Geert Vanden Bossche

"Mass vaccinaton campaigns can substantally reduce infecton rates and hence, the emergence of new viral variants. So, enhancement of vaccinaton campaigns should be able to prevent circulaton of additonal variants." Why is this simplistc postulate fundamentally wrong?

First, in order for emerging more infectous variants to enhance their potency and become well established, they must adapt to the suboptmal immune pressure they escaped from. To adapt viruses to grow at high infectous tters under suboptmal conditons1, it is critcal to passage the virus repeatedly under the same ‘stress’ conditons. Likewise, repeated person-to-person transmission of a highly mutable virus under similarly selectve, suboptmal immune pressure would enable ‘training’ of selected immune escape variants. This will ultmately result in adaptaton of the viral variant and thereby enable full-fedged replicaton under conditons which initally restricted its replicaton. All more infectous Sars-CoV-2 variants are characterized by mutatons that are directed at spike S protein -herein called: ‘S variants’. Selecton of S-directed mutatons enables enhanced binding of these variants to the ACE-2 cell receptor. By virtue of their enhanced binding to cell receptors on respiratory epithelial cells, S variants are able to overcome limitatons in infectousness imposed by S-specifc antbodies.

In the absence of infecton preventon measures or mass vaccinaton campaigns, spontaneously occurring S variants have no opportunity to compete with circulatng wild virus as there is no selectve immune pressure mechanism promotng their adaptaton to the human host. In case of de novo infecton of a seronegatve populaton with Sars-CoV-2, there is no selectve immune pressure that could promote replicaton and propagaton of immune escape S variants. In case subjects have previously been primed as a result of infecton with wild type Sars-CoV-2, their later exposure to variant S antgen (S’) will recall a strong response mounted by Abs that efectvely recognize both S and S’

htps://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/03/24/science.abg9175

Lastly, subjects who are in the process of seroconvertng as a result of Coronavirus (CoV) infecton will not be susceptble to re-infecton by another CoV due to antviral innate immunity. So, in none of the above-mentoned cases do S variants have an opportunity to repeatedly replicate and propagate under suboptmal selectve immune pressure. This is to say that under conditons of natural infecton, adaptaton of S-selectve immune escape variants does not usually occur. This seems to be confrmed by the results from virus characterizaton on archival autopsy samples from subjects who succumbed to Infuenza during the pandemic of 1918. Samples isolated during the second, most severe, wave did not indicate any contributon from variant strains (htps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/artcles/PMC3291398/).
1Suboptmal conditons occur when the virus is, for example, inoculated on host cells that are not usually permissive to the virus or when it is grown on cell culture at suboptmal temperature or in the presence of subneutralizing antbodies.


In case of mass vaccinaton, however, there is plenty of opportunity for spontaneously occurring S variants to experience selectve immune pressure. Mass vaccinaton campaigns will cause large, not previously primed cohorts of the populaton to seroconvert against S protein and to even maintain suboptmal Abs for quite some tme (e.g., in those waitng for the second dose of a 2-shot vaccine) while being exposed to spontaneously emerging viral variants. Such cohorts include people who have not previously been infected at all as well as subjects who have been asymptomatcally infected and only exhibited short-lived Ab tters, presumably due to lack of adequate priming htps://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.18.20248447v1 ; htps://www.nature.com/artcles/s41392-021-00525-3

Mass vaccinaton of vulnerable groups does not abrupt viral transmission chains but increasingly redirects transmission events to asymptomatc carriers (i.e., vaccinated subjects as well as not yet vaccinated young and healthy people, several of whom experienced asymptomatc infecton without mountng long-lived Ab tters2). As ongoing mass vaccinaton campaigns are shifing the ‘reservoir’ of viral transmission to asymptomatcally infected subjects (whether vaccinated or not), the likelihood for unvaccinated, previously asymptomatcally infected subjects to experience re-infecton with Sars-CoV-2 while being endowed with suboptmal and short-lived ant-S Abs substantally increases. This is to say that within the populaton that is now most actvely involved in viral transmission, new, spontaneously emerging S variants have plenty of opportunity to train under suboptmal immune pressure such as to ultmately adapt to the human host and become part of the dominant circulatng Sars-Cov-2 populaton. This is how - afer inital breeding of selected viral variants as a direct result of infecton preventon measures - subsequent mass vaccinaton campaigns will drive enhanced circulaton of additonal, more infectous viral S variants. ‘Training’ of such more infectous immune escape variants is thought to be refected by the plateau that follows the vaccine-mediated decline in cases and the height of which exceeds the one following the previous wave of cases.

As mass vaccinaton campaigns have started in the vulnerable populaton, not only vaccinated subjects but also not yet vaccinated younger age groups will become a breeding ground for new infectous variants. There can be no doubt that contnued mass vaccinaton campaigns will enable new, more infectous viral variants to become increasingly dominant and ultmately result in a dramatc incline in new cases despite enhanced vaccine coverage rates. There can be no doubt either that this situaton will soon lead to complete resistance of circulatng variants to the current vaccines. This is certainly not what would be expected by those who claim that enhanced and accelerated mass vaccinaton is going to diminish circulaton of new dominant variants and will, therefore, further reduce viral infecton rates and flatten morbidity and mortality curves.

[InVentive44]

You can get covid twice, vaccination can only boost your immunity and nobody knows how long your immunity might last

I worked out today, why would I work out again?

Anyhoo you do boo

Tired of boors

LOL stay in your lane. Let people make their own individual choices, stop whining.