This was my 12th week, it's been a low stress week after performance finally started to decline last week, been yawing between sets. I remember being told here to first lift for at least 12 or so weeks before making any conclusions and that was my main focus-to show up every time and never miss a workout. First 6 or so weeks was full body 3x a week, then U/L 4x a week for the rest. I've been doing 12 sets a week for the most part. Started with 6 sets first two weeks, then 9 third week, then 12 up until 9 weeks or so. I was more or less stalling the entire time so I went down to 8 sets for these last few weeks to see what would happen, and still stalled. All in all, 3 months of stalling. Last week I added some weight and reps to all my lifts to see what would happen after lifting the same old thing forever and it ended up being a bad idea as recovery took a hit. Only change was some fat gain and that's it really. Wife said I still look the same, all my lifts have basically stayed the same (they only fluctuated due to exertion levels). Started with a 185lb squat for 10 reps, ended with a 185lb squat for 10 reps. I used to take every set to failure the first 2 weeks. People said that was terrible. So after that, I began taking every set about 2 reps shy of failure instead.
I'm thinking of avoiding grinding any reps altogether, stopping right when velocity slows as a clear marker. You would think just going in and lifting consistently would alone cause progress but not at all in this situation.
I've been considering getting on an actual routine and following it to the T to see what would happen then. The one I have in mind is the original Greyskull LP (not Phrak's), but I don't know how good it would be for hypertrophy alone since it seems to stem from powerlifting? On paper my routine more or less ended up looking like fierce 5 as far as structure goes but obviously I've been doing something wrong the entire time. This is what it looks like:
Upper A
Db bench 4
V bar pull down 4
Rope biceps/triceps 2
Face pulls/lateral raises 2
Upper B
Seated db press 4
Chest supported db row 4
Cable flyes 4
Rope biceps/triceps 2
Face pulls/lateral raises 2
Lower A
Squat 2
Rdl 2
Leg extension 2
Lying leg curl 2
Standing calf raise 3
Ab crunches 3
Lower B
Leg press 2
Rdl 2
Leg extension 2
Lying leg curl 2
Standing calf raise 3
Ab crunches 3
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05-07-2021, 05:06 AM #1
Finally 12 straight weeks of lifting done...nothing to show for it lol
Last edited by Animal2692; 05-07-2021 at 05:26 AM.
"The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization." -Sigmund Freud
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." -Leonardo da Vinci
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05-07-2021, 05:33 AM #2
Those are probably some of the places to look for making changes. You don't want to keep lifting the same amount week after week. You don't need to add sets, you should increase the weight instead while keeping the sets, reps, and exercises the same. Definitely don't work to failure frequently, only on occasion.
Lifting consistently does not cause progress, it cause stalling. Progressively overloading your lifts is what causes progress. Lifting the same weight week after week does not cause your body to adapt to higher intensity and instead your body will get used to the weight it's lifting and it can even start to feel heavier as your body basically gets lazy.
Follow a program and follow it to the T. I don't know anything about the program you mentioned, but I'm sure others will have valuable insights.
Remember, in order to make changes you need to make changes. If you're doing the same thing over and over again you can't expect to grow. Don't be discouraged, though.
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05-07-2021, 05:35 AM #3
Mate you always change chit up. What else do you expect? Why don't you just follow a simple set up and get your numbers up... Strength correlates with size.
Workout a
Bench 3x5
Rows 3x5
Squats 3x5
Calf raises 2x20
Dumbbell curls 2x10
Workout b
Overhead press 3x5
Close grip bench 3x8
Pull ups 3 x 8
Rdl 3 x 8
Rear delt flies 2x20
Do this eod or m/w/f
Eat to gain weight. You get your main lifts up while gaining weight and your whole body will hypertrophy. Grit your teeth and push through. You're complicating everything when all it takes is attention to diet and good old hard work. Do that or continue making posts that you're getting nowhere
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05-07-2021, 05:38 AM #4
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05-07-2021, 05:54 AM #5
I started at 150, ended at 160. I've been lifting the same thing not because I want to, but because it's all I could do week to week. Anytime I'd try to add anything, it would only cause that set to become an RPE 10 from an 8.5. How good is the original greyskull for hypertrophy? Is it more for powerlifters instead?
"The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization." -Sigmund Freud
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." -Leonardo da Vinci
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05-07-2021, 05:58 AM #6
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05-07-2021, 06:02 AM #7
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05-07-2021, 06:09 AM #8
- Join Date: Jan 2007
- Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Posts: 54,513
- Rep Power: 1338185
From a PM I sent you some time ago which may bear repeating in case you didn't try this out:
perhaps RPE is not where you think it is. Squats never feel easy exactly but you might be a lot further from true failure than you think. I would suggest verifying your own assumptions by occasionally doing a true maximal set.
Perhaps you should try a radical shift of parameters. Perhaps first try a powerlifting oriented routine and focus on getting strength up. If that doesn't work, try the BB route again but with like 16 sets per BP per week...
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05-07-2021, 06:12 AM #9
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05-07-2021, 06:17 AM #10
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05-07-2021, 06:19 AM #11
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05-07-2021, 06:27 AM #12
I tried pushing harder on everything especially squats. I was doing 185 for 10, went up to 195 for 10 and was closer to failure. Did that for a few weeks, then went to 205 where the last rep was more or less 1 rep from failure. Next lower body workout I was still feeling drained so I went back to 195 knowing I wouldn't be able to handle 205.
"The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization." -Sigmund Freud
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." -Leonardo da Vinci
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05-07-2021, 06:31 AM #13
- Join Date: Jan 2007
- Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Posts: 54,513
- Rep Power: 1338185
It would have been better if you did AMRAP with 185 - then you would know your true RIR. Nothing magic about 10 reps. I bet you could have got 15-18...
If you do follow a routine like Greyskull, you'll actually find it less exhausting to do high RPE with lower reps - even though the weight is heavier.
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05-07-2021, 06:46 AM #14
1- nothing wrong with training to failure. Did it every workout for 40 years.
2- what are you eating?
3- try lower reps, I know that my own body responds much better and much faster to 5-6 rep sets vs 8-10.
4- what are you eating?"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Old Guy deadlifting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zMrim-0Dks
bench press https://youtu.be/GaRzfueJVJQ
Every workout is GAME DAY!
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05-07-2021, 07:15 AM #15
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05-07-2021, 08:34 AM #16
Well, you’re going to get many different suggestions.
Fact is, none of this stuff makes you smaller or weaker but not all will make you bigger and stronger.
8-12 sets per body part, every set to failure, anywhere from 3-12 reps. Hitting each body part twice in an 8 day period, eating enough to add half a pound per week at 1 G protein per lb wb is simple enough.
If you’re not pushing for more weight and or more reps it’s all gonna grind to a halt.
Focus on big pushes and big pulls and big compounds for the lower body too....rest, eat, sleep, grow.
It’s not all that difficult and there’s little mystery behind progression in weights, reps and food."A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Old Guy deadlifting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zMrim-0Dks
bench press https://youtu.be/GaRzfueJVJQ
Every workout is GAME DAY!
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05-07-2021, 09:10 AM #17
For me, that progression would be too fast. Maybe it's suitable for you? Can't tell directly for sure from your post, but it sounds like you started doing 12 sets in the 4th week. You did 6 sets the first 2 weeks. 9 sets the 3rd week. Then 12 sets starting the 4th week. There is no way I could double my volume in a month. Maybe in 4-6 months, but not one month. I would stall faster than a lead zeppelin.
Zeppelin def: A Zeppelin is a type of rigid airship named after the German inventor Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin.
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05-07-2021, 10:45 AM #18
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05-07-2021, 11:04 AM #19
- Join Date: Jun 2016
- Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 31
- Posts: 11,166
- Rep Power: 52549
It's hard to add weight to sets of 10, definitely not a rep range you choose for getting stronger specifically.
In terms of hypertrophy. Statistically significant hypertrophy doesn't show for 8 weeks on average, and that's statistically significant, with full body comp measurements, you're not going to notice hypertrophy changes in 3 months...
That's the main reason logical hypertrophy training still uses progressive overload as a guide that hypertrophy has possibly occurred.
Finally, whether this is actually relevant or not.
I ****ing hate adding sets weekly, especially several sets a week. You're starting to low and wasting time, and then adding loads of fatigue that you never give yourself time to adjust too, burn out. Deload to much and start to low again?.
A lot of Dr israetel fans do this and suffer because of it Id say, personally I don't think you sjpild volume ramp at all, but if you are then keep it to 1 set a week.
I'll also add, some training blocks are as much learning what not to do as what works.
My last dev block of bench did almost nothing for it, high volume low rpe seemed to not be the way to go, at least at the moment.
By contrast I added weight to my squat damn near every week and continue to do so this week, but my squat was easy to pin down.
Heavy moderate intensity comp and hard direct assistance and quad and glute hypertrophy to supplement.
If I'd only done 10s and no direct assistance my squat would suck (ever more so)5 day full body crew
FMH Crew, Sandbagging Mike Tuscherer Wannabee
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05-07-2021, 11:10 AM #20
I like that set up actually. I could use a change anyways and go back to lower reps for compounds and back to barbell movements. Is there supposed to be a rep range of say 5-7 or you just stick with sets across?
I'm thinking that dynamic double progression has been making me constantly overreach which has been causing the non-stop stalling whereas with sets across, you're essentially sandbagging until the last couple sets or so.Last edited by Animal2692; 05-07-2021 at 11:19 AM.
"The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization." -Sigmund Freud
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." -Leonardo da Vinci
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05-07-2021, 11:17 AM #21
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05-07-2021, 11:21 AM #22
There’s nothing wrong with adding sets and having a week or 2 with lower sets isn’t wasting time if you’re working in the proper RIR/RPE.
Also the whole notion of “too low” of sets isn’t super accurate I’d say. If someone has an MEV of 13-16 sets for a body part and what’s where you start and then ramp up to like 17-19 I don’t see an issue with that.
Sometimes adding reps or load can be tough, but adding an extra set can be done.
I train this way so take my words with a caveat of course.
I personally have always responded well to accumulation/overreaching and then backing off.
Even back when I trained strictly for strength I saw the best benefits from it and for hypertrophy too.
In the end the ramping of sets isn’t that different from other methods provided someone isn’t an idiot.the latest and greatest in training...or whatever.
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177744461&page=3
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05-07-2021, 11:22 AM #23
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05-07-2021, 11:24 AM #24
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05-07-2021, 11:25 AM #25
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05-07-2021, 11:28 AM #26
- Join Date: Jun 2016
- Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Age: 31
- Posts: 11,166
- Rep Power: 52549
The debate rages on, I won't do it the justice others have so I'll just refer anyone to the Helms Israetel debates on this..
I'm very much with Helms and your with Israetel on it, and that's okay, we have both found what works for us, for the msot part and thats the main battle.5 day full body crew
FMH Crew, Sandbagging Mike Tuscherer Wannabee
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05-07-2021, 11:28 AM #27
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05-07-2021, 11:29 AM #28
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05-07-2021, 11:34 AM #29
Honestly, maybe DDP has something to do with 12 straight weeks of stalling. Even though it's very autoregulated, the exertion levels stay the same regardless of whether you're fatigued or not. Even without going to failure, every single set is still pretty damn hard. Because I've tried different weekly volumes (nothing above 12) and that didn't seem to fix the problem. I went down to 8 sets from 12 and my performance has decreased last week which is very strange as a decrease in volume should improve recovery...so I had to strip some weight this week and take it easy.
"The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization." -Sigmund Freud
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." -Leonardo da Vinci
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05-07-2021, 11:37 AM #30
I'm a big believer in pushing through and if you're feeling fatigued take an extra day off rather than lowering intensity. You're not at the stage where you need to complicate stuff. You need to just grit your teeth and grind your numbers up. Expect it to be hard every time you train with the aim of lifting more. It doesn't matter what progression you use as long as you're progressing but save the rir for when you're more advanced. It's just a recipe for going through the motions
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