Hitler must have hated the Japanese for kicking the hornets nest

[ghostdivision88]

For lauching the Americans into an all out war with Germany with their attack on Pearl Harbour.

Not sure how much of a difference it would have made but now Hitler is fighting the largest most powerful insustrialized nation in the world. If he could have defeated the Soviets in the east, he would have given the west really bad trouble.

There has never been a bigger If in the history of "Ifs". it also depends by when. If he defeats them before the Americans develop a toehold in North Africa then that a lot different than if he defeats them after

He could take his 3.3 million men (or whatever remained of his three army groups) his aircraft and his armour, he probably would have won another victory swiftly in North Africa, even fighting on 2 fronts he would have had so many more resources and the drain on existing resources would have been far less. I don think there has ever been, in the history of warfare any campaigne more bloody than the war in the east. Especially being in control of th oil fields in the caucuses and not having an enemy breathing down your neck, damn its scary (and really interesting) to think of what might have happened.

[Phil9]

He should have hated himself for thinking that invading the USSR while fighting wars on other fronts was a good idea.

[Roldz]

[ghostdivision88]

He should have hated himself for thinking that invading the USSR while fighting wars on other fronts was a good idea.

it was a gamble

he almost won too

if he had attacked with another half a million men 4 weeks earlier he would have had it or even another quarter million men. 2 weeks earlier, it was so close. it is only stupid in retrospect but what is truly stupid is Hitlers micromanagment, his meddling, mismanagment of military resources refusal to delegate, refusal to allow Paulus to withdraw his men from the Staligngrad pocket. The loss of practically the entire 6th Army for the pride of one man. his complete detachment from the situation on the ground. more or less refusal to face facts.

but thats beside the point

i grew up surrounded by ww2 history books and there are maybe a handful (less than 5 out of 10 thousand at least) that speak of german-japanese relations.

The silience is deafening

[Cleveland33]

Germany approached Mexico to allow them to invade the US and Mexico of course narced them out. So they kicked the hornet's nest themselves pretty hard.

[Noliberals4]

Hitler, like Trump, was too impulsive and thought he was invincible. Refused to use strategy and relied on his cult to prop him up. They both blew winnable wars.

[ghostdivision88]

Hitler, like Trump, was too impulsive and thought he was invincible. Refused to use strategy and relied on his cult to prop him up. They both blew winnable wars.

dont compare Hitler to that buffoon

Trump would have his men attacking whales in the north sea for their oil to mae sure his men had enough vitamin d

Assclown

[Dave22reborn]

You guys and your what if scenarios......

[JMath]

America would have gotten involved in Europe eventually anyway. It's not like the US said "oh those Japs attacked us, we better go fight Hitler". So if anything, it prevented the US from committing more resources to the European fight sooner. If we're not fighting Japan for 4 years, it's 4 years of more US forces helping the Allies in Europe.

[potbellymadar]

Mussolini didn’t help matters in Africa

[Mr Beer]

No, he reacted with pleasure. No-one has successfully invaded Japan in their entire existence he said, meaning he felt that he had an historically invulnerable country on his side. He was also pleased the gloves were off because he felt, not without reason, that the US was fighting a shadow war against Germany already.

[Streetbull]

Americans would have demanded we fight the Japanese and mind our own business about Germany.

The USSR was supplying him with tons of supplies before June 22, 1941. Also, few Germans wanted to move east. They thought Lebensraum was a crock.

He should have conquered North Africa, get the oil and conquered the U.K. But eventually empires crumble because all the conquered people can’t be controlled, like every empire ever.

[OttomanEmpire]

Why was the guy so fixated on taking over Stalingrad instead of just going around and taking over the North Caucasus?

[DukeOfWoodBerry]

He should have hated himself for thinking that invading the USSR while fighting wars on other fronts was a good idea.

Hitler had information that Russia was gonna to attack them, so he wanted to strike first.

Germany approached Mexico to allow them to invade the US and Mexico of course narced them out. So they kicked the hornet's nest themselves pretty hard.

That was WWI and the message was intercepted by British intelligence.

[JUSA]

wasn't he already u-bombing american vessels before that? lol. they already were at war. if anything japan made america (and britain) focus their resources elsewhere so they couldn't supply russia and britain as well as they might have.

That again might be WWI and it wasn't really on purpose. Back then the bottom of a ship all pretty much looked the same.

[DukeOfWoodBerry]

That again might be WWI and it wasn't really on purpose. Back then the bottom of a ship all pretty much looked the same.

American vessels were transporting arms to the allies. The Lusitania which, the vessel that caused all the outrage, was carrying weapons and ammunition. They thought they were cute sticking them on a "passenger" vessel.

[Dave22reborn]

You guys are on crack if you thought he would have won in the East.

He couldn't even conquer the UK, and they all thought that the war would be over in a few weeks after invading the Soviet Union.

[keyboardworkout]

Germany approached Mexico to allow them to invade the US and Mexico of course narced them out. So they kicked the hornet's nest themselves pretty hard.

Well, Mexico was taken by only 400 Marines.

[Streetbull]

You guys are on crack if you thought he would have won in the East.

He couldn't even conquer the UK, and they all thought that the war would be over in a few weeks after invading the Soviet Union.

The Luftwaffe was a spent force after the Battle of Britain. Yet Hitler attacked a huge country that gets wider and wider from Warsaw to the Urals (more land to have to occupy).

That’s what meth does to people, especially one diagnosed in 1918 as an hysterical psychopath lol...

[CalmWind]

There was nothing Hitler, or anyone in germany, could have done to prevent the outcome. Except reaching the A-bomb first. Aside from that, Germany was doomed and nothing would change that.

Why? :


I am convinced, that even if nobody attacked us, and both the Germans and Japanese refused to reply to our provocations... I am convinced FDR would have gotten Congress to declare war on Germany anyway. They were not going to allow Russia to gobble up Europe. Declaring war on the Western front was ideal, because German troops on the WF were outnumbered and lacked supplies. This gave us a chance to permanently eliminate Germany and then race to Berlin before the Russians gobble up Europe for themselves.

Once Hitler invaded Poland, Germany's defeat was a certainty (unless develop A-bomb first). If you studied history, you would have known that the USA was going to enter the war, regardless. Even if the American people wanted neutrality.

So the question is, how does FDR get the American people to support another war in Europe (with no Pearl Harbor)?

Well, the same way they got the American people to support WW1, or the Spanish American war, etc.... FDR would have simply done the same thing the USA did in WW1. Claim you've been attacked and provoke outrage. Just like in WW1, the U.S. would just continue sending Merchant Marine ships with supplies to help Britain, and then when any of them are sunk by German U-boats, make a grandstand of it with the U.S. Media outlets and provoke outrage and declare war, for killing american merchant sailors.


Nothing Hitler could have done would have prevented this outcome. He set Germany on the path of defeat when he invaded Poland. He did this, knowing that France and Great Britain would declare war on Germany. And if Great Britain enters the war, then you know, from a historical perspective from World War 1, just 20 years prior, that the United States would also back Great Britain and eventually enter the war. So.... Hitler doomed himself and nothing, except maybe producing the first Atomic bomb, would have changed the outcome.

The world was not going to allow anyone to conquer Europe.

[DukeOfWoodBerry]

The Luftwaffe was a spent force after the Battle of Britain. Yet Hitler attacked a huge country that gets wider and wider from Warsaw to the Urals (more land to have to occupy).

That’s what meth does to people, especially one diagnosed in 1918 as an hysterical psychopath lol...

Hitler had information that Russia was going to attack so he wanted to strike first. If his information was accurate, he had no choice.

[Dave22reborn]

Hitler had information that Russia was going to attack so he wanted to strike first. If his information was accurate, he had no choice.

The Soviets were hoping that Germany, France, and England would be going at it till 1943 or 1944.

Then they would have steam-rolled through them.

[InPhase]

Why was the guy so fixated on taking over Stalingrad instead of just going around and taking over the North Caucasus?

Stalingrad. Read that name again, and have a think about why he wanted Stalingrad so badly. It would have been the ultimate humiliation.

Probably would have succeeded too if it wasn't for the brutally cold russian winter that came early, and brought with it a heap of rain that turned the roads to mud and snow, and slowed the advance to a halt. Really should have launched the assault much earlier to avoid the crap weather.

[34erf]

There was nothing Hitler, or anyone in germany, could have done to prevent the outcome. Except reaching the A-bomb first. Aside from that, Germany was doomed and nothing would change that.

Why? :


I am convinced, that even if nobody attacked us, and both the Germans and Japanese refused to reply to our provocations... I am convinced FDR would have gotten Congress to declare war on Germany anyway. They were not going to allow Russia to gobble up Europe. Declaring war on the Western front was ideal, because German troops on the WF were outnumbered and lacked supplies. This gave us a chance to permanently eliminate Germany and then race to Berlin before the Russians gobble up Europe for themselves.

Once Hitler invaded Poland, Germany's defeat was a certainty (unless develop A-bomb first). If you studied history, you would have known that the USA was going to enter the war, regardless. Even if the American people wanted neutrality.

So the question is, how does FDR get the American people to support another war in Europe (with no Pearl Harbor)?

Well, the same way they got the American people to support WW1, or the Spanish American war, etc.... FDR would have simply done the same thing the USA did in WW1. Claim you've been attacked and provoke outrage. Just like in WW1, the U.S. would just continue sending Merchant Marine ships with supplies to help Britain, and then when any of them are sunk by German U-boats, make a grandstand of it with the U.S. Media outlets and provoke outrage and declare war, for killing american merchant sailors.


Nothing Hitler could have done would have prevented this outcome. He set Germany on the path of defeat when he invaded Poland. He did this, knowing that France and Great Britain would declare war on Germany. And if Great Britain enters the war, then you know, from a historical perspective from World War 1, just 20 years prior, that the United States would also back Great Britain and eventually enter the war. So.... Hitler doomed himself and nothing, except maybe producing the first Atomic bomb, would have changed the outcome.

The world was not going to allow anyone to conquer Europe.

didnt hitler have einstein and other genius's in his pocket. if he had more time they would have had the atom bomb & america wouldnt. he could have took out the US in one strike. Especially no one knowing wtf would hit them. Also didnt all these scientists have access/or created other crazy inventions? imagine if that UFO that they supposedly created was real lmao

[XterraRob]

For lauching the Americans into an all out war with Germany with their attack on Pearl Harbour.

Not sure how much of a difference it would have made but now Hitler is fighting the largest most powerful insustrialized nation in the world. If he could have defeated the Soviets in the east, he would have given the west really bad trouble.

There has never been a bigger If in the history of "Ifs". it also depends by when. If he defeats them before the Americans develop a toehold in North Africa then that a lot different than if he defeats them after

He could take his 3.3 million men (or whatever remained of his three army groups) his aircraft and his armour, he probably would have won another victory swiftly in North Africa, even fighting on 2 fronts he would have had so many more resources and the drain on existing resources would have been far less. I don think there has ever been, in the history of warfare any campaigne more bloody than the war in the east. Especially being in control of th oil fields in the caucuses and not having an enemy breathing down your neck, damn its scary (and really interesting) to think of what might have happened.

American's manufacturing industry wasn't too bright in the early stages.

[jesterstear]

Why was the guy so fixated on taking over Stalingrad instead of just going around and taking over the North Caucasus?

Because Stalingrad was named for Stalin, so Hitler wanted to make a point by taking it. (srs)

[ghostdivision88]

Mussolini didn’t help matters in Africa

He would have fit in today.

Hell, they would hail him and a nobel peaceprize winner.

[ghostdivision88]

No, he reacted with pleasure. No-one has successfully invaded Japan in their entire existence he said, meaning he felt that he had an historically invulnerable country on his side. He was also pleased the gloves were off because he felt, not without reason, that the US was fighting a shadow war against Germany already.

Well yes they were.

If by shadow war you mean sending huge tonnages over the Atlantic to help out the British and the Communists.

Also, i believe several American ships were sunk and/or damaged and American civilians killed even before Pearl Harbor happened,

[ghostdivision88]

Why was the guy so fixated on taking over Stalingrad instead of just going around and taking over the North Caucasus?

Ego

Stalingrad. Just the name probably pissed off Hitler, and everything he so despised about socialism, which was so much the opposite of his beloved nationalism.

With a name like that its a very tempting prize. all he had to do was encircle and beseige the city and leave a token force to ensure it wasnt too heavily resupplied since it was sitting on the Volga, one of Russians largest and most important rivers and a very obvious means of resupply for the red army.

If he had encircled and consolidated, then moved on to the caucauses, and driven through south to the arab nations he would have saved time, men, and material and could have taken the weakened city in the spring as reinforcement were brought over. As it was he used up vast reserves attacking stalingrad when a siege would have proved much more effective

[devopsengineer]

Attacking USA was Japan's own decision. It was retaliation to anti-japanese sanctions imposed by USA. Hitler has nothing to do with it. At the time, USA was funding Hitler trough corporations like International Bussiness Machines and tycoons like Prescot Bush, so it would be idiotic for Hitler to ask Japan to attack USA

Hitler was asctually lobbying USA to attack Britain. Everyone in USA except Rosevelt were pro-hitler.