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  1. #1
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    EOMRAT: Please see this (and 7seconds).......

    Eomrat, maybe you are correct, I've grown past the Zappa guitar garbage and this his garbage that I truly love.

    I used to have little parties at my pad in my single days and I always screened this, for some, they couldn't take it, others enjoyed it.

    This is really simple stuff and that's what I like about Zappa, he takes something simple and makes it unique (not to mention he has the coolest mustache in American history), but notice his hand symbols he does an "A" for A minor and then "C" with his hands to conduct the band.

    And the there is Roy Estrada an original Mother.

    I luv this MORE than his guitar playing, I want to form a band and do this, I don't care who likes it or not.

    Watch the entire thing, this was common stuff in the early days before he disbanded his first band.....

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    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    EOMRAT- check this one out, now If I didn't like this "garbage" theres no way I'd be able to find this, you can't just type in "Mothers of Invention" and find this, I had to do specific searches.

    This is beyond his long guitar solos, and rumor has it that Zappa told Motorhead Sherwood to just blow on the sax and move your fingers fast, HA sounded genus.

    Help I'm a Rock and Hungry Freaks Live, with nice 1960's footage

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    Scared ****less eomrat's Avatar
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    Why are these your examples? You are certainly aware that Frank Zappa made serious music. You posted parodies.

    If he is as talented as you think then he must be being intentionally discordant. Either way, these two examples are just more garbage. It makes the Sex Pistols sound like the Temptations.
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    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    You are certainly aware that Frank Zappa made serious music.
    I would agree, Zappa is a seriously underrated guitar player.

    You posted parodies.
    I was wondering this myself but he posts what he enjoys, can’t really fault him for that.

    If he is as talented as you think then he must be being intentionally discordant.
    Usually I only have to look up words when reading Karl’s post but I had no clue what discordant meant.

    It makes the Sex Pistols sound like the Temptations.
    I could give you about a 500 word discussion on the Sex Pistols but that’s probably not what you are looking for.
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    Let's talk about Sex Pistols instead.
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    Why are these your examples? You are certainly aware that Frank Zappa made serious music. You posted parodies.

    If he is as talented as you think then he must be being intentionally discordant. Either way, these two examples are just more garbage. It makes the Sex Pistols sound like the Temptations.

    If the music is "original" than to me, it's serious. If Zappa wrote boring compositions that the "serious" (serious meaning boring people who analyze music for every perfect note) I most likely wouldn't find an interest in him.

    Black Napkins is good, but I wasn't thrilled when he played it on that TV show, in fact I hate the intro to "Black Napkins" on every version I hear, I also hate the intro to "Watermelon in Easter hay", but I like the little fast "garbage" solo at the end, it's short lived.
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    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Let's talk about Sex Pistols instead.
    Ok. I’m in. Sex Pistols, good band or overrated sh*t? You start.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Ok. I’m in. Sex Pistols, good band or overrated sh*t? You start.
    Well overrated probably if we're talking about talent but they appeal to my raw emotions. How about you?

    Edit: I love them
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    Scared ****less eomrat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post

    I could give you about a 500 word discussion on the Sex Pistols but that’s probably not what you are looking for.
    I am actually a fan. It require a certain mood that I am in less and less these days, but I still find need for that sort of thing from time to time.

    Also, Sex Pistols cannot be overrated for the same reason Elvis, Led Zeppelin, and Hank Williams Sr. cannot be over rated.
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Well overrated probably if we're talking about talent but they appeal to my raw emotions. How about you?

    Edit: I love them

    At face value, the Sex Pistols were a boy band whose microscopic musical catalog consists of crude songs full of filthy lyrics and simple riffs. Their manager, Malcolm McLaren, carefully crafted the band's antisocial image from the ground up. Unfortunately, the band's gimmicky stunts, along with the drama surrounding Sid Vicious, overshadowed the band's music. Instead of nurturing and growing the band, McLaren doubled down on the "punk attitude" instead of the "punk music." The Sex Pistols turned into one-note shock rockers, while The Clash and Joy Division ventured into artistic ground that the Sex Pistols barely explored.

    But they were very influential. Check out the the Lesser Free Trade Hall concert on YouTube. It’s said only 40 turned up...but in that 40 you got:

    The Smiths, Magazine, Joy Division, Mark E Smith/The Fall, The Buzzcocks Founders of Factory Records and the Hacienda.

    Later gigs you can see members of: X-Ray Specs, The Pogues, Big Audio Dynamite, XTC, The Cure,Souxsie and the Banshees.

    That being said they made a f*cking outstanding record. It changed popular music.
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    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    I am actually a fan. It require a certain mood that I am in less and less these days, but I still find need for that sort of thing from time to time.

    Also, Sex Pistols cannot be overrated for the same reason Elvis, Led Zeppelin, and Hank Williams Sr. cannot be over rated.
    True.. Except for Elvis. Elvis is overrated. Beatles is NOT!
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  12. #12
    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    At face value, the Sex Pistols were a boy band whose microscopic musical catalog consists of crude songs full of filthy lyrics and simple riffs. Their manager, Malcolm McLaren, carefully crafted the band's antisocial image from the ground up. Unfortunately, the band's gimmicky stunts, along with the drama surrounding Sid Vicious, overshadowed the band's music. Instead of nurturing and growing the band, McLaren doubled down on the "punk attitude" instead of the "punk music." The Sex Pistols turned into one-note shock rockers, while The Clash and Joy Division ventured into artistic ground that the Sex Pistols barely explored.

    But they were very influential. Check out the the Lesser Free Trade Hall concert on YouTube. It’s said only 40 turned up...but in that 40 you got:

    The Smiths, Magazine, Joy Division, Mark E Smith/The Fall, The Buzzcocks Founders of Factory Records and the Hacienda.

    Later gigs you can see members of: X-Ray Specs, The Pogues, Big Audio Dynamite, XTC, The Cure,Souxsie and the Banshees.

    That being said they made a f*cking outstanding record. It changed popular music.
    Yeah I know it was kinda manufactured by that McLaren guy, didn't they find them just hanging out in front of some clothing store?
    However, there was real anger and desperation, especially the drama with Sid Vicious makes it more real.and I like the simple riffs and the songs that just stay in your head.
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    True.. Except for Elvis. Elvis is overrated. Beatles is NOT!

    Those two where the same at one point, they both released pop BS written by someone else. So what's the story with the Beatles? they were a fake teenager BS band, then they became fake hippies, but the question is did John Lennon and the group write their own hippy type music? IDK, I'm asking, but the "I wanna hold your hand", was all sellout BS, similar to Elvis.

    Zappa was none of that, he was no hippy, but as a struggling music dude working for independence, he lived like a "real" hippy, bills not paid, people living in the house, music auditions in the house all night long.

    Beatles always were rich, but were they "controlled"?

    Another reason why Zappa was more fascinating, he worked for himself.
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Yeah I know it was kinda manufactured by that McLaren guy, didn't they find them just hanging out in front of some clothing store?
    Jones and Cook were already a band (The Strand) and asked McLaren to manage, Glen Matlock was brought in as bass guitarist as he worked at the shop McLaren owned and later Jonny Rotten (who was at Central St Martins with Matlock) came in afterwards (he used to hang out at McLaren’s first shop which sold Teddy Boy clothing then later turn into ‘Sex’ where the band got there look from).

    However, there was real anger and desperation, especially the drama with Sid Vicious makes it more real.and I like the simple riffs and the songs that just stay in your head.

    I have heard it referred to as stylized ugliness. The simplicity of of the the music leaves plenty of room for Lydon to sneer, cackle, whine, and shout his screeds about abortion, the royals, the communist bloc, etc. The way the record is mixed, it sounds better as you turn it up.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    So what's the story with the Beatles?

    The Beatles are a case where they were so integral in laying the foundation of music to come that their very own sound now is seemingly "outclassed" by those who have had the advantage of hindsight and specialization. When a band is so influential that it ends up sounding "generic" that is merely a testament to how often they have been emulated that the original now seems cliche-like in comparison. The very fact that a band's sound has been used as a framework for those who came after them to springboard into a more nuanced style - that may very well be subjectively better- speaks volumes about how good they were. And it is worth noting that every adjustment and addition to the formula inherently leads to the product sound having a more specialized and niche appeal. The Beatles are literally the worlds most popular band, even decades after the height of their careers. That alone should tell you something.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    The Beatles are a case where they were so integral in laying the foundation of music to come that their very own sound now is seemingly "outclassed" by those who have had the advantage of hindsight and specialization. When a band is so influential that it ends up sounding "generic" that is merely a testament to how often they have been emulated that the original now seems cliche-like in comparison. The very fact that a band's sound has been used as a framework for those who came after them to springboard into a more nuanced style - that may very well be subjectively better- speaks volumes about how good they were. And it is worth noting that every adjustment and addition to the formula inherently leads to the product sound having a more specialized and niche appeal. The Beatles are literally the worlds most popular band, even decades after the height of their careers. That alone should tell you something.
    And don't forget that Kanye made Paul McCartney famous. You know that guy who used to play in the Monkees.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    The Beatles are a case where they were so integral in laying the foundation of music to come that their very own sound now is seemingly "outclassed" by those who have had the advantage of hindsight and specialization. When a band is so influential that it ends up sounding "generic" that is merely a testament to how often they have been emulated that the original now seems cliche-like in comparison. The very fact that a band's sound has been used as a framework for those who came after them to springboard into a more nuanced style - that may very well be subjectively better- speaks volumes about how good they were. And it is worth noting that every adjustment and addition to the formula inherently leads to the product sound having a more specialized and niche appeal. The Beatles are literally the worlds most popular band, even decades after the height of their careers. That alone should tell you something.
    well composed and presented.

    As for Cass, I don't know wtf she talkingaboot.

    EDIT: Woman; wtf u talkingaboot???
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    And don't forget that Kanye made Paul McCartney famous. You know that guy who used to play in the Monkees.
    I wasn’t familiar with your reference, so I googled it. Kanye and Monkee is not a very effective search. Eventually I did find an article from years ago where McCartney said writing with Kanye was like writing with Lennon. That was surprising.

    I tried for a long time to hate Kanye. In the end I couldn’t.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    The Beatles are a case where they were so integral in laying the foundation of music to come that their very own sound now is seemingly "outclassed" by those who have had the advantage of hindsight and specialization. When a band is so influential that it ends up sounding "generic" that is merely a testament to how often they have been emulated that the original now seems cliche-like in comparison. The very fact that a band's sound has been used as a framework for those who came after them to springboard into a more nuanced style - that may very well be subjectively better- speaks volumes about how good they were. And it is worth noting that every adjustment and addition to the formula inherently leads to the product sound having a more specialized and niche appeal. The Beatles are literally the worlds most popular band, even decades after the height of their careers. That alone should tell you something.


    Is that because they were rich from selling teenage pop songs, and who wrote those tunes? And because they are so "popular" is why I really don't care for the majority of their music, there are a couple tunes that I like though, but the majority of it, naw, things that are popular with the majority I find I don't like.
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    Originally Posted by ChazWood View Post
    well composed and presented.

    As for Cass, I don't know wtf she talkingaboot.

    EDIT: Woman; wtf u talkingaboot???
    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    I wasn’t familiar with your reference, so I googled it. Kanye and Monkee is not a very effective search. Eventually I did find an article from years ago where McCartney said writing with Kanye was like writing with Lennon. That was surprising.

    I tried for a long time to hate Kanye. In the end I couldn’t.
    My bad. Long story short: years ago bodyhard said on his Facebook something about Kanye discovering Paul McCartney and his Facebook blew up everyone posting how do you not know who Beatles was etc. etc.

    Soo..recently in a thread I said something about it and bodyhard said that he knows now who Paul McCartney is and that he's from the band called Monkeys. I mean if it were anyone else, you'd think it was a joke.
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    My bad. Long story short: years ago bodyhard said on his Facebook something about Kanye discovering Paul McCartney and his Facebook blew up everyone posting how do you not know who Beatles was etc. etc.

    Soo..recently in a thread I said something about it and bodyhard said that he knows now who Paul McCartney is and that he's from the band called Monkeys. I mean if it were anyone else, you'd think it was a joke.
    haha! Classic BH. Dude is so money.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    I wasn’t familiar with your reference, so I googled it. Kanye and Monkee is not a very effective search. Eventually I did find an article from years ago where McCartney said writing with Kanye was like writing with Lennon. That was surprising.

    I tried for a long time to hate Kanye. In the end I couldn’t.
    I've never "got" Kayne and tend to separate the artist from the art, so I dont care aboot his personal life drama stuff.

    The only tune of his I like so far is the "Diamonds" remix by Ratatat.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Is that because they were rich from selling teenage pop songs, and who wrote those tunes?
    Lennon and McCartney wrote almost all of the songs. I think Paul was the better songwriter and John the better lyricist. Harrison wrote some pretty good songs as well.
    As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. Jump. It is not as wide as you think.
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    I don't really get Kanye, there so many other rappers and hip hoppers that are better IMO but I don't dislike him. One I cannot listen to is Cardi B. Yuck.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Lennon and McCartney wrote almost all of the songs. I think Paul was the better songwriter and John the better lyricist. Harrison wrote some pretty good songs as well.
    Pretty good?? George wrote amazing songs. "Something" is my fav.
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    Originally Posted by ChazWood View Post
    I've never "got" Kayne and tend to separate the artist from the art, so I dont care aboot his personal life drama stuff.

    The only tune of his I like so far is the "Diamonds" remix by Ratatat.
    Solid producer, mid-tier rapper.

    College Dropout, Late Registration, and Kids See Ghosts are pretty good stuff.



    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Pretty good?? George wrote amazing songs. "Something" is my fav.
    No you’re right, he wrote amazing songs. One of my favorites that wasn’t a Beatles song.


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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    No you’re right, he wrote amazing songs. One of my favorites that wasn’t a Beatles song.





    Alright, EMORAT is correct, but what he's wrong about is, if that above is serious music, well than I like Garbage, because I don't like the above at all.

    But again, even a parady can be original, and if it's original, to me it's serious. Weird Al was only original in lyrics, the music was not, he stole his tunes.

    "Were Only In It For The Money" is an entire parady album, to me it genius album. Ray Collins quit the band when Frank recorded it, he manipulated that album so well I had no clue Frank was the vocals for every single track, and then the last track is a freaky instrumental that I must revisit, there is NOTHING else like that album ever, pure originality.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Alright, EMORAT is correct, but what he's wrong about is, if that above is serious music, well than I like Garbage, because I don't like the above at all.

    But again, even a parady can be original, and if it's original, to me it's serious. Weird Al was only original in lyrics, the music was not, he stole his tunes.

    "Were Only In It For The Money" is an entire parady album, to me it genius album. Ray Collins quit the band when Frank recorded it, he manipulated that album so well I had no clue Frank was the vocals for every single track, and then the last track is a freaky instrumental that I must revisit, there is NOTHING else like that album ever, pure originality.
    In my teens I was an angry young man who liked his music in the same manner; punk, thrash, violence, things like that. When I was around 18 years old I went to a bar in Greenville NC and saw this guy.



    Just a guy with a guitar. Amazing show. Perhaps one day you will like him as well.
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