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  1. #121
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    No ill effects on me, hence me saying to have metabolic flexibility and everyone can see what works for them.

    We can start a smokers forum if you’d like but this is a nutrition sub forum.
    So you’re saying you drank 12 eggs in 12oz of half and half over a long period and measured both baseline and post-exposure lipids?

    I find this very hard to believe.

    BTW, metabolic flexibility isn’t something we’re talking about
    The power of carbs compels me!

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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    So you’re saying you drank 12 eggs in 12oz of half and half over a long period and measured both baseline and post-exposure lipids?

    I find this very hard to believe.

    BTW, metabolic flexibility isn’t something we’re talking about
    No...in response to your eggs/saturated fat comment I wrote how I had checked blood lipids (and had an annual wellness check) after 3 months of doing the steak and eggs diet. I also mentioned my c reactive protein had improved. Had never done before and after labs for Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake.

    When I used to do the shakes I was aiming to put on weight (in my 20’s now 40’s), the steak and eggs diet is to lose bodyfat while maintaining muscle averaging a dozen eggs a day, lots of butter and red meat as my staple. Even before a t booster, being well into my 40s I was still able to maintain blood t levels near 1000 on less than average (for me) sleep.

    And yes this is metabolic flexibility you’re talking about because you’re making a comparison on a different way of eating. Mark Sisson elaborates on this on his site in a very easy and simple to understand format.
    my info is GOLD

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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Chicken eggs are an affordable source of protein and other nutrients. They're also naturally high in cholesterol.
    But the cholesterol in eggs doesn't seem to raise cholesterol levels the way other cholesterol-containing foods do, such as trans fats and saturated fats.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...turated%20fats.
    The article you're linking to is recommending a max of 1 egg per day.

    It's pretty clear what eggs do to lipids.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32635569/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29111915/

    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Vince Gironda’s steak and eggs diet for 3 months, carbing up once a week on as much as I could possibly stuff in my face without vomiting.

    Total cholesterol went up about 20 points
    , hdl went up, triglycerides went down.
    What was your LDL number?

  4. #124
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    The article you're linking to is recommending a max of 1 egg per day.

    It's pretty clear what eggs do to lipids.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32635569/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29111915/


    What was your LDL number?
    After the 3 months 99
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  5. #125
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    No...in response to your eggs/saturated fat comment I wrote how I had checked blood lipids (and had an annual wellness check) after 3 months of doing the steak and eggs diet. I also mentioned my c reactive protein had improved. Had never done before and after labs for Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake.

    When I used to do the shakes I was aiming to put on weight (in my 20’s now 40’s), the steak and eggs diet is to lose bodyfat while maintaining muscle averaging a dozen eggs a day, lots of butter and red meat as my staple. Even before a t booster, being well into my 40s I was still able to maintain blood t levels near 1000 on less than average (for me) sleep.

    And yes this is metabolic flexibility you’re talking about because you’re making a comparison on a different way of eating. Mark Sisson elaborates on this on his site in a very easy and simple to understand format.
    Weight loss/calorie deficit mitigates the negative impacts on lipids... if someone is BULKING, they will have poorer outcomes
    The power of carbs compels me!

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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Weight loss/calorie deficit mitigates the negative impacts on lipids... if someone is BULKING, they will have poorer outcomes
    Ah perfect then!!!

    So a dozen eggs a day is about 850 calories, with your logic you can spike your hormones AND get shredded!

    You just figured out what Vince did 60 years ago yeeehaawwww!!!
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    This thread is entertaining.

    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    The article you're linking to is recommending a max of 1 egg per day.

    It's pretty clear what eggs do to lipids.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32635569/
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29111915/



    What was your LDL number?
    In all seriousness though, the difference between "daily consumption of eggs is healthy" and "drink a dozen daily" aside, if the daily recommendation is one per day, why is it that so many people consume 3-4 almost every day and end up with perfectly healthy bloodwork?

    Sounds like the recommendation generalizes to account for people with sensitivity.

    Seriously, ONE egg being 63% of the RDA for cholesterol? Not arguing with the stat, but many people who maintain balanced, nutritious diets are still most likely going to exceed that considerably, even if they literally only had one egg daily besides everything else. And if you're only going to have one egg for fear of overdoing cholesterol, it doesn't make so much sense from a macronutrional point of view to consume more than half of your RDA for 5g fat and 6g protein, or thereabout.

    I think if you're trying to stay within the RDA it's probably better to avoid eggs altogether and then get plenty of protein instead with the allocated cholesterol.

    While totally going ham with cholesterol is another thing entirely, I personally take the position of not being concerned with eating a few eggs every day and am going to happily keep doing it. If that ends up being a problem, oh well. I have no known history of heart disease in my family and it seems to be no issue for so many.
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  8. #128
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    This thread is entertaining.



    In all seriousness though, the difference between "daily consumption of eggs is healthy" and "drink a dozen daily" aside, if the daily recommendation is one per day, why is it that so many people consume 3-4 almost every day and end up with perfectly healthy bloodwork?

    Sounds like the recommendation generalizes to account for people with sensitivity.

    Seriously, ONE egg being 63% of the RDA for cholesterol? Not arguing with the stat, but many people who maintain balanced, nutritious diets are still most likely going to exceed that considerably, even if they literally only had one egg daily besides everything else. And if you're only going to have one egg for fear of overdoing cholesterol, it doesn't make so much sense from a macronutrional point of view to consume more than half of your RDA for 5g fat and 6g protein, or thereabout.

    I think if you're trying to stay within the RDA it's probably better to avoid eggs altogether and then get plenty of protein instead with the allocated cholesterol.

    While totally going ham with cholesterol is another thing entirely, I personally take the position of not being concerned with eating a few eggs every day and am going to happily keep doing it. If that ends up being a problem, oh well. I have no known history of heart disease in my family and it seems to be no issue for so many.
    One of the biggest issues with studies on eggs or dietary cholesterol in general is a lack of true baseline numbers.

    Essentially everyone - except vegans - already consumes cholesterol on a daily basis, usually between 100 and 500mg or so.

    That being the case, almost everyone has already slightly elevated their levels somewhat AND the standard American already has a poor diet anyway. So really, it’s hard to isolate the effect on a highly nutritious diet with zero eggs or cholesterol after adding in 1-3 per day.

    I’m not of the opinion that having a couple eggs is going to harm everyone at all, but would it HELP them? Probably no also... and certainly 12 eggs mixed with half and half will be a problem for 99%+ of people.
    The power of carbs compels me!

  9. #129
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    In all seriousness though, the difference between "daily consumption of eggs is healthy" and "drink a dozen daily" aside, if the daily recommendation is one per day, why is it that so many people consume 3-4 almost every day and end up with perfectly healthy bloodwork?
    It's usually because opinions vary on what entails 'perfect bloodwork'. It's likely that their blood work would be better without the 4 eggs. Consuming several eggs per day increased LDL somewhat in most people. In some people a lot.

    It's not everyone's goal to keep LDL as low as possible. However, if you want to keep your risk for CVD as low as possible it is probably a good idea.

    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    After the 3 months 99
    Probably because of the calorie deficit as Adam mentioned.

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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Did you read the studies I posted? Conflicting information by science. Here's a simple way to find out for yourself, eat eggs daily for two moths and go have your lipids checked

    Trust yourself not an article
    This. Studies are great but the reality is people are different and its more complicated and nothing is as good as just testing yourself. I've seen testimony of people doubling their LDL in a few weeks eating as few as 3 eggs a day and I have seen people who eat insane amounts of eggs with perfect LDL and HDL numbers. I think its a bit disingenuous and hyperbolic to compare eating eggs to smoking which has zero health benefits. That being said drinking 12 eggs daily would have a very high chance of spiking LDL and I would recommend anyone doing something like that go get bloods done. The brass tacs seems to be that some of the best foods for recovery and muscle growth like red meat and eggs may not be the optimal choice for long term heart health. I don't think the OP is suggesting people eat 12 eggs a day everyday forever and I doubt drinking one of these is worse than going out for a night of binge drinking. While study's trump anecdote I don't think they trump personal anecdote IE eating more eggs and doing bloods before and after. As with most things I think moderation is probably good in fact why that other study is nice. 2-4 eggs a few times a week for breakfast and your probably A ok. The real issue I see with this shake is I think it would taste terrible XD. So I will continue to enjoy my eggs when I want them and will not try this shake purely because it sounds like it tastes nasty.

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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    It's usually because opinions vary on what entails 'perfect bloodwork'. It's likely that their blood work would be better without the 4 eggs. Consuming several eggs per day increased LDL somewhat in most people. In some people a lot.

    It's not everyone's goal to keep LDL as low as possible. However, if you want to keep your risk for CVD as low as possible it is probably a good idea.



    Probably because of the calorie deficit as Adam mentioned.
    Probably...or probably not.

    When I’ve fattened up and eaten garbage for months at a time my levels were about the same with my hdl being lower and triglycerides a little higher.

    So far I’ve never recommended anyone do this permanently, it’s a tool for a specific job.
    my info is GOLD

  12. #132
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by XinXom View Post
    This. Studies are great but the reality is people are different and its more complicated and nothing is as good as just testing yourself. I've seen testimony of people doubling their LDL in a few weeks eating as few as 3 eggs a day and I have seen people who eat insane amounts of eggs with perfect LDL and HDL numbers. I think its a bit disingenuous and hyperbolic to compare eating eggs to smoking which has zero health benefits. That being said drinking 12 eggs daily would have a very high chance of spiking LDL and I would recommend anyone doing something like that go get bloods done. The brass tacs seems to be that some of the best foods for recovery and muscle growth like red meat and eggs may not be the optimal choice for long term heart health. I don't think the OP is suggesting people eat 12 eggs a day everyday forever and I doubt drinking one of these is worse than going out for a night of binge drinking. While study's trump anecdote I don't think they trump personal anecdote IE eating more eggs and doing bloods before and after. As with most things I think moderation is probably good in fact why that other study is nice. 2-4 eggs a few times a week for breakfast and your probably A ok. The real issue I see with this shake is I think it would taste terrible XD. So I will continue to enjoy my eggs when I want them and will not try this shake purely because it sounds like it tastes nasty.
    Every food choice has it's trade-offs

    Not everything I consume is helpful for my health either... it's all a balancing act.

    The most eggs i've consumed regularly was 3 a day for 3 months.

    My LDL went from about 75 to 103... is that dangerous? I don't know, but 75 is definitely better than 103.

    My HDL did increase as well, but studies have shown HDL does not have a strong protective effect on the negative issues with LDL.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 04-16-2021 at 09:19 AM.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Every food choice has it's trade-offs

    Not everything I consume is helpful for my health either... it's all a balancing act.

    The most eggs i've consumed regularly was 3 a day for 3 months.

    My LDL went from about 75 to 103... is that dangerous? I don't know, but 75 is definitely better than 103.

    My HDL did increase as well, but studies have shown HDL does not have a strong protective effect on the negative issues with LDL.
    That’s a significant increase, guessing you were still having grains and sugar the entire time.
    my info is GOLD

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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    That’s a significant increase, guessing you were still having grains and sugar the entire time.
    What do grains have to do with it?

    Whole grains are shown to lower LDL, and I consume very very little added sugar. Most the sugar I get is from berries or sweet potato + vegetables... maybe 10g of added sugar a day on average, and a LOT of fiber.

    I was consuming the same diet outside the addition of eggs... it was a well controlled self experiment. I also included about 1g of n3 per day.


    I also went on a 100% vegan diet for almost three years. My LDL got as low as 70. Eggs seem to be the largest impact on my LDL levels, whereas meats don’t seem to do much at all. Triglycerides seem to stay basically the same regardless of my diet... always 50-80.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    What do grains have to do with it?

    Whole grains are shown to lower LDL, and I consume very very little added sugar. Most the sugar I get is from berries or sweet potato + vegetables... maybe 10g of added sugar a day on average, and a LOT of fiber.

    I was consuming the same diet outside the addition of eggs... it was a well controlled self experiment. I also included about 1g of n3 per day.


    I also went on a 100% vegan diet for almost three years. My LDL got as low as 70. Eggs seem to be the largest impact on my LDL levels, whereas meats don’t seem to do much at all. Triglycerides seem to stay basically the same regardless of my diet... always 50-80.
    Inflammatory response, you can manipulate your body through diet but it seems like your chemistry doesn’t do good with added cholesterol and some types of carbs. Had you been doing eggs meat and veggies only id be surprised if the same thing happened.
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Inflammatory response, you can manipulate your body through diet but it seems like your chemistry doesn’t do good with added cholesterol and some types of carbs. Had you been doing eggs meat and veggies only id be surprised if the same thing happened.
    whole grains don't cause inflammation in people who aren't allergic to them....


    I have no desire to remove carbs.

    My c-reaction protein is undetectable, always has been.
    The power of carbs compels me!

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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    whole grains don't cause inflammation in people who aren't allergic to them....


    I have no desire to remove carbs.

    My c-reaction protein is undetectable, always has been.
    Nice
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Nice
    Why did you even suggest I don't do well with 'some kinds of carbs'?

    My c-reactive protein, fasting glucose, HBA1C, lipid levels, everything has always been great regardless of my carb intake. Where did you get that idea from?
    The power of carbs compels me!

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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Why did you even suggest I don't do well with 'some kinds of carbs'?

    My c-reactive protein, fasting glucose, HBA1C, lipid levels, everything has always been great regardless of my carb intake. Where did you get that idea from?
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705319/
    my info is GOLD

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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    What does that have to do with me tho? You specifically said it sounds like I don't deal well with certain carbs...

    From the study:

    "In CD and gluten-sensitive individuals, adverse reactions to the intake of wheat, rye and barley are clinically apparent; however, it is important to gain better insights on the effects of the consumption of these cereal grains in other groups of patients and in healthy individuals."


    That study isn't even about LDL..
    The power of carbs compels me!

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    It least it isn't about India.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    What does that have to do with me tho? You specifically said it sounds like I don't deal well with certain carbs...

    From the study:

    "In CD and gluten-sensitive individuals, adverse reactions to the intake of wheat, rye and barley are clinically apparent; however, it is important to gain better insights on the effects of the consumption of these cereal grains in other groups of patients and in healthy individuals."


    That study isn't even about LDL..
    There is nothing anyone can do for you, you’ll have to live a restricted dietary lifestyle forever
    my info is GOLD

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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    It least it isn't about India.
    Ha ha!!!
    my info is GOLD

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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    There is nothing anyone can do for you, you’ll have to live a restricted dietary lifestyle forever
    I enjoy my diet very much... i don't feel restricted at all

    Though technically, everyone pretty much chooses to restrict on some level.

    Otherwise i'd eat nothing but peanut butter, carrot cake, sushi, salmon teriyaki, pizza, and reese's most of the time.
    The power of carbs compels me!

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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    I enjoy my diet very much... i don't feel restricted at all

    Though technically, everyone pretty much chooses to restrict on some level.

    Otherwise i'd eat nothing but peanut butter, carrot cake, sushi, salmon teriyaki, pizza, and reese's most of the time.
    That’s perfect and that all sounds really good.

    This thread was created for Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake and what kind of benefits it can offer to those that would like to give it a go.
    my info is GOLD

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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post

    This thread was created for Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake and what kind of benefits it can offer to those that would like to give it a go.
    And yet this thread got side tracked
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    That’s perfect and that all sounds really good.

    This thread was created for Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake and what kind of benefits it can offer to those that would like to give it a go.
    You yourself have deviated plenty of times so it's fair to say the original theme no longer stands alone.

    That being said, let's look at that again:

    "For the “before” picture weakling or anyone needing a kickstart to girly man hormone levels.

    Try this and see if you get bigger and feel better.


    12 raw fertile eggs, 1/3 cup of milk-egg protein powder, 12 ounces of half-and-half and a banana (skip banana if on low carb or ketogenic diet, its only for taste).

    Sip between meals throughout the day.


    Way more info can be found online, posted this in case people haven’t heard of the Iron Guru"


    Do you have specific information that suggests:

    - 12 eggs + 12oz of half and half etc will help with hormone levels
    - This will make someone 'feel better'
    The power of carbs compels me!

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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    You yourself have deviated plenty of times so it's fair to say the original theme no longer stands alone.

    That being said, let's look at that again:

    "For the “before” picture weakling or anyone needing a kickstart to girly man hormone levels.

    Try this and see if you get bigger and feel better.


    12 raw fertile eggs, 1/3 cup of milk-egg protein powder, 12 ounces of half-and-half and a banana (skip banana if on low carb or ketogenic diet, its only for taste).

    Sip between meals throughout the day.


    Way more info can be found online, posted this in case people haven’t heard of the Iron Guru"


    Do you have specific information that suggests:

    - 12 eggs + 12oz of half and half etc will help with hormone levels
    - This will make someone 'feel better'
    The only way to know for certain is to try it

    If you don’t want to you don’t want to

    Worked great for me
    my info is GOLD

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    Originally Posted by Bosko View Post
    And yet this thread got side tracked
    It did...it also happens to be the hottest thread in the nutrition section by far.

    People must really, REALLY love Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake!
    my info is GOLD

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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post

    People must really, REALLY love Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake!
    It's a beautiful thing....


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