Vince gironda’s hormone precursor shake

[Bosko]

I'd substitute the whole thing and have a ribeye and a baked potato...call me fukin silly....

[ManwittaPlan]

Right, and it was the raw egg shakes that got them there. Uh huh.

Gironda died in the previous century. Science has come a long way. We now know that raw eggs are a poor source of protein and that eating 12 eggs a day increases LDL in most people + their risk of salmonella poisoning.

Most people? You sure about that ?

[ManwittaPlan]

I'd substitute the whole thing and have a ribeye and a baked potato...call me fukin silly....

Ribeye is what I had for breakfast...with 4 eggs

Much better than ANY shake

[AdamWW]

Most people? You sure about that ?

Yes, obviously.

You’re talking about eating over 7 times the daily upper recommendation for cholesterol and a LOT of saturated fat all in one drink.... not to mention all the other sources during the day.

I would suggest spending less time listening to the fringe opinions of classical gym bros who themselves died of heart disease and more time reading scientific literature.

[ManwittaPlan]

No, it’s opinion.

If I said I think the moon is made of blue cheese that doesn’t mean it’s true or based in science.

How far has your science brought you towards your goals ?

[ManwittaPlan]

Yes, obviously.

You’re talking about eating over 7 times the daily upper recommendation for cholesterol and a LOT of saturated fat all in one drink.... not to mention all the other sources during the day.

I would suggest spending less time listening to the fringe opinions of classical gym bros who themselves died of heart disease and more time reading scientific literature.

Show me a link to the obviously please

[paulinkansas]

AdamWW and Manwittaplan should have their own discussion forum in the stickies.

[Bosko]

Not sure many of the greats had a science lesson ......

[AdamWW]

How far has your science brought you towards your goals ?

Extremely far, because the information I’m talking about is related to health, and my health markers are excellent.

[ManwittaPlan]

Not sure many of the greats had a science lesson ......

They did what worked for them

[ManwittaPlan]

Extremely far, because the information I’m talking about is related to health, and my health markers are excellent.

Extremely, that’s a lot

[Mrpb]

Most people? You sure about that ?

It's what the systematic reviews show.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32635569/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29111915/

[AdamWW]

Show me a link to the obviously please

I’ve shared these with you before

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29111915/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11333841/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32428300/



You can find plenty of info by simply googling “eggs ldl meta analysis” or similar phrases for diabetes / saturated fats.

[AdamWW]

They did what worked for them

That is perhaps the weakest and most vague logic available

[ManwittaPlan]

That is perhaps the weakest and most vague logic available

Results are everything

[AdamWW]

Results are everything

Again, died of heart disease along with Poliquin, and you’re ONLY looking at appearance.

Being lean and/or having muscle tissue does not mean healthy.

They could have had the same visual appearance and better health by eating more sensibly... MOST of the best and longest living natural athletes do it this way.

Why are you choosing to follow in the footsteps of a select few people who didn’t even live very long?

[ManwittaPlan]

Again, died of heart disease along with Poliquin, and you’re ONLY looking at appearance.

Being lean and/or having muscle tissue does not mean healthy.

They could have had the same visual appearance and better health by eating more sensibly... MOST of the best and longest living natural athletes do it this way.

Why are you choosing to follow in the footsteps of a select few people who didn’t even live very long?

Pioneers

And plenty still alive, Arnold’s doing pretty good

[AdamWW]

Pioneers

And plenty still alive, Arnold’s doing pretty good

Bro, Arnold has had MAJOR heart surgery... he’s not a picture of health.

That’s like saying Ronnie Coleman is doing well.

Compare that to someone like Jack LaLanne who lived to 96 years old and was active well into his elderly years.

Being a ‘pioneer’ doesn’t mean anything if you’re pioneering bad information or practices

[ManwittaPlan]

Bro, Arnold has had MAJOR heart surgery... he’s not a picture of health.

That’s like saying Ronnie Coleman is doing well.

Compare that to someone like Jack LaLanne who lived to 96 years old and was active well into his elderly years.

Bodybuilding forum

[AdamWW]

Bodybuilding forum

Nutrition section

[ManwittaPlan]

Nutrition section

For bodybuilding .com

[AdamWW]

For bodybuilding .com

Your counter-arguments are related to more than just anabolism.

If you want to claim something will build muscle, provide evidence.

If you want to deny it is not a healthy approach, provide evidence.

Saying “this guy did it” is not evidence.

[snailsrus]

His ideas are so dumb he produced a few mr Olympias

Your credentials please ?

-pro cards in npc bikini and figure
-records and golds in uspa powerlifting

Butttt honestly the guy who made this whole thing up is just trying to sell his protein. You could make a much lower cholesterol shake with full fat Greek yogurt, oats, whey and peanut butter

But really the best thing is just to snack and have meals with calorically dense foods.

Most bodybuilders from the 80’s died in their 50’s from heart problems

[ManwittaPlan]

Your counter-arguments are related to more than just anabolism.

If you want to claim something will build muscle, provide evidence.

If you want to deny it is not a healthy approach, provide evidence.

Saying “this guy did it” is not evidence.

Been doing it for years. Optimal in all areas. I share what works for me.

[AdamWW]

Been doing it for years. Optimal in all areas. I share what works for me.

Then you should be transparent and say you’re purely basing everything you say on anecdotes so everyone knows to ignore it.

[snailsrus]

Been doing it for years. Optimal in all areas. I share what works for me.

well if you have good health now, I’d get a nice life insurance plan

[ManwittaPlan]

Then you should be transparent and say you’re purely basing everything you say on anecdotes so everyone knows to ignore it.

I’ll do my thing you have the power to do what you want

[ManwittaPlan]

well if you have good health now, I’d get a nice life insurance plan

Everyone should

[EliKoehn]

If there's one theme spending lots of time on this forum over the past couple of years that I've seen as an increasingly valuable concept, is the importance of protecting long-term health.

The classical understanding of health was to protect and maintain it, remedy being for the most part taken as evidence of prior shortcomings. I think we would all do well to have more of that Hippocratic view.

ManWittaplan, have you read Arnold's Encyclopedia? I have, and even if it was just ghost-written (mentions nothing of his own steroid use and says precious little about them at all, for instance), even Arnold's own how-to from the 90s recommends caution against overdoing cholesterol, and to derive most daily protein from fish, poultry, and legumes/nuts.

[AdamWW]

If there's one theme spending lots of time on this forum over the past couple of years that I've seen as an increasingly valuable concept, is the importance of protecting long-term health.

The classical understanding of health was to protect and maintain it, remedy being for the most part taken as evidence of prior shortcomings. I think we would all do well to have more of that Hippocratic view.

ManWittaplan, have you read Arnold's Encyclopedia? I have, and even if it was just ghost-written (mentions nothing of his own steroid use and says precious little about them at all, for instance), even Arnold's own how-to from the 90s recommends caution against overdoing cholesterol, and to derive most daily protein from fish, poultry, and legumes/nuts.

And let's not forget how his health turned out even with that:





And nowadays, he doesn't even follow that kind of extreme diet he used to... he completely overhauled his diet because of health concerns.