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  1. #301
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    I'm not weighing in on the lively scientific debate happening here and no offense to VG, but IMO sipping on a shake of 12 raw eggs and half-and-half throughout the day is a waste of good animal products. I could make one epic omelette out of that. But I value taste and enjoyment in food choices more than most.

  2. #302
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    I don’t know the exact reason on why he wanted it raw but I’m guessing because it’s easier to chug than just eat. Vince had protocols for specific goals. Hormone improvement, mass, cut, etc.

    This thread was only about the shake nothing more.

    I do appreciate the debating with all the members, positive or negative it doesn’t affect me or make anyone sound more intelligent.

    Vince was way ahead of his time and produced results for his clients, to deny that is ignorance.

    He had lifting routines and exercises that most bodybuilders disagreed with but his methods were bringing home the trophies. You don’t need a scientific study for that, history has already proven it for us.

    Post away with the links gents, it’s interesting reading for inquiring minds.
    my info is GOLD

  3. #303
    Registered User EiFit91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    This was a good read imo: https://journals.plos.org/plosmedici...l.pmed.0040006



    The Rouhani meta found similar results as the Weggemans meta, and that was done almost 20 years later with new data.

    The forest plot in third other meta was interesting too imo https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...ort=objectonly
    Thanks for sharing the PLOS study, very interesting!

  4. #304
    Registered User EiFit91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    I don't see them. But if you made excellent progress for your genes and the time you've been training it was most likely not because of consuming raw eggs, it was in spite of consuming raw eggs.



    Not for me, I value low LDL cholesterol. I'm 48 and like to keep my CVD risk to a minimum. I've done several tests, my LDL is higher when I eat eggs.

    My testosterone is naturally at the high end of the natural range, avoiding eggs hasn't made any difference.
    I agree that it's probably the most sensible approach to do your own tests and find out if you are a hyperresponder. I have been planning to check mine for a while. My father has been on a low carb diet eating a lot of eggs (and saturated fat) for more than a decade, and it only increased his HDL so hopefully that is going to be the case for me too. I am much more concerned with diabetes risk than heart disease though - my father has LADA diabetes which has risk factors common with type 2 diabetes. One of the risk factors is being overweight/obese, and eggs are a very effective way to regulate my appetite which is unfortunately very high. I know there are other food sources that help with satiety, but there are none that I love as much as eggs. I also eat fatty fish almost daily.

  5. #305
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    Originally Posted by EiFit91 View Post
    I agree that it's probably the most sensible approach to do your own tests and find out if you are a hyperresponder. I have been planning to check mine for a while. My father has been on a low carb diet eating a lot of eggs (and saturated fat) for more than a decade, and it only increased his HDL so hopefully that is going to be the case for me too. I am much more concerned with diabetes risk than heart disease though - my father has LADA diabetes which has risk factors common with type 2 diabetes. One of the risk factors is being overweight/obese, and eggs are a very effective way to regulate my appetite which is unfortunately very high. I know there are other food sources that help with satiety, but there are none that I love as much as eggs. I also eat fatty fish almost daily.
    This is the best approach, test yourself

    Not only do I do blood work but I’ve also had my dna raw data analyzed by dr Rhonda Patrick (have already mentioned this).

    The only things I need to be concerned about is celiac or diabetes. Cardiac my dna matches what my blood work shows, this is why when people post these studies I get it but it doesn’t have much effect on me. When mrpb tells me the eggs didn’t increase my test levels but I see that after a few months there’s an increase when I eat eggs and saturated fats then after months of eating whites and chicken breast they go down significantly there isn’t much to discuss.

    My GP has looked over my results for years, tells me insurance doesn’t cover any of these tests unless you have markers for a condition but if you have the means test yourself. I pay out of pocket for all this.
    my info is GOLD

  6. #306
    Registered User EiFit91's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    This is the best approach, test yourself
    This was an amusing read in light of the previous discussion though:

    https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr...9009.pub3/full

    "General health checks are unlikely to be beneficial."

  7. #307
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EiFit91 View Post
    This was an amusing read in light of the previous discussion though:

    https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr...9009.pub3/full

    "General health checks are unlikely to be beneficial."
    ha ha!!! so no point in ever going to the doctor

    dan pena was right, you don't need scientific studies....do what works!!!
    my info is GOLD

  8. #308
    Super Spreader desslok's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    ha ha!!! so no point in ever going to the doctor

    dan pena was right, you don't need scientific studies....do what works!!!
    If you die of CVD from 4 weeks of shakes, the only studies you need to worry about are Darwin’s.
    Superbus est, qui loquitur in prouerbiis Latinis.

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  9. #309
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by desslok View Post
    If you die of CVD from 4 weeks of shakes, the only studies you need to worry about are Darwin’s.
    Not just any shake....

    Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake!!!
    my info is GOLD

  10. #310
    Я русский TheFugitive's Avatar
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    Someone asked if Arnold is vegan now...

    He has a supplement line that offers plant based protein and whey protein. His vegan approach appears to be a safe choice for sales

    FYI: Plant based anything a incomplete protein, not saying you can't build muscle with it, but Im just not a fan
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  11. #311
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Someone asked if Arnold is vegan now...

    He has a supplement line that offers plant based protein and whey protein. His vegan approach appears to be a safe choice for sales

    FYI: Plant based anything a incomplete protein, not saying you can't build muscle with it, but Im just not a fan
    We have canines as teeth for a reason, we evolved this way.
    my info is GOLD

  12. #312
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    We have canines as teeth for a reason, we evolved this way.
    That’s actually not accurate.

    Several animals have “canine” teeth and do not consume animal flesh.

    Ever seen a hippopotamus’s teeth?

    Not to mention our jaws move back and forth (not up and down only), we have totally different intentional acidity compared to other more carnivorous animals, a relatively long digestive tract, we have flat molars for grinding plant matter...

    And even the canine teeth we do have are puny compared to other species.

    At best we evolved eating small amounts of meat with higher amounts of fruits and tubers. As opportunistic eaters, it would have taken far less energy to simply consume things that couldn’t run away from us.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 04-19-2021 at 07:52 PM.
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  13. #313
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    omfg lol i just now saw this!!!!!!!!
    my info is GOLD

  14. #314
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    That’s actually not accurate.

    Several animals have “canine” teeth and do not consume animal flesh.

    Ever seen a hippopotamus’s teeth?

    Not to mention our jaws move back and forth (not up and down only), we have totally different intentional acidity compared to other more carnivorous animals, a relatively long digestive tract, we have flat molars for grinding plant matter...

    And even the canine teeth we do have are puny compared to other species.

    At best we evolved eating small amounts of meat with higher amounts of fruits and tubers. As opportunistic eaters, it would have taken far less energy to simply consume things that couldn’t run away from us.
    yep, rent free in your head....welcome back

    you almost lasted a day, i'm pretty proud of you

    now mix yourself up a Vince Gironda's hormone precursor shake!

    it will turn you from weak and skinny to big and brawny!!!
    my info is GOLD

  15. #315
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    omfg lol i just now saw this!!!!!!!!
    Thats hilarious!
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  16. #316
    Я русский TheFugitive's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    That’s actually not accurate.

    Several animals have “canine” teeth and do not consume animal flesh.

    Ever seen a hippopotamus’s teeth?

    Not to mention our jaws move back and forth (not up and down only), we have totally different intentional acidity compared to other more carnivorous animals, a relatively long digestive tract, we have flat molars for grinding plant matter...

    And even the canine teeth we do have are puny compared to other species.

    At best we evolved eating small amounts of meat with higher amounts of fruits and tubers. As opportunistic eaters, it would have taken far less energy to simply consume things that couldn’t run away from us.
    Today the sun set in the west
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  17. #317
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Today the sun set in the west
    https://www.jdao-journal.org/article...n2010131p4.pdf
    The power of carbs compels me!

  18. #318
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    Today the sun set in the west
    it did...and ironically Vince's gym was out on the west coast
    my info is GOLD

  19. #319
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    it did...and ironically Vince's gym was out on the west coast
    That isn’t what ‘ironic’ means...

    I think you mean ‘coincidentally’.

    It’s OK, we can’t all pass 4th grade English.
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    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    That isn’t what ‘ironic’ means...

    I think you mean ‘coincidentally’.

    It’s OK, we can’t all pass 4th grade English.

    It is in the context I meant it...you’d get it if you had the proper nourishment

    And you can if you try Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake!!!
    my info is GOLD

  21. #321
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    It is in the context I meant it...you’d get it if you had the proper nourishment

    And you can if you try Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake!!!
    Then please explain how that is in any way ironic

    Sun set in west

    Gym also in the west...

    Where’s the irony ?
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  22. #322
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    omfg lol i just now saw this!!!!!!!!
    I seriously have just about every humorous, pornographic (very soft), or educational poster in all my furnished rental houses.

  23. #323
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    That’s actually not accurate.

    Several animals have “canine” teeth and do not consume animal flesh.
    I got home late last night. Was at a meeting where beer and whisky was involved. I had the food in my fridge but didn't feel like spending the time to cook it.

    So I ate about 10 ounces of raw steak. I just cut it with a steak knife and used a fork. No ill effects this morning. I was thinking about VIctor Girondas thing while eating the raw meat.

    I should make a disclaimer that a lot of the things I do are not the things a normal person would do.

  24. #324
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    I got home late last night. Was at a meeting where beer and whisky was involved. I had the food in my fridge but didn't feel like spending the time to cook it.

    So I ate about 10 ounces of raw steak. I just cut it with a steak knife and used a fork. No ill effects this morning. I was thinking about VIctor Girondas thing while eating the raw meat.

    I should make a disclaimer that a lot of the things I do are not the things a normal person would do.
    You’re alright Paul
    The power of carbs compels me!

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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    I should make a disclaimer that a lot of the things I do are not the things a normal person would do.
    I don’t think that disclaimer has been needed in years
    Superbus est, qui loquitur in prouerbiis Latinis.

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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    At best we evolved eating small amounts of meat with higher amounts of fruits and tubers. As opportunistic eaters, it would have taken far less energy to simply consume things that couldn’t run away from us.
    https://time.com/4252373/meat-eating...ism-evolution/

    https://www.nature.com/scitable/know...ans-103874273/

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nature16990

    "Overall, Zink and Lieberman concluded, a diet that was one-third animal protein and two-thirds OSUs would have saved early humans about two million chews per year—a 13% reduction—meaning a commensurate savings in time and calorie-burning effort just to get dinner down.

    That mattered for reasons that went beyond just giving our ancient ancestors a few extra free hours in their days. A brain is a very nutritionally demanding organ, and if you want to grow a big one, eating at least some meat will provide you far more calories with far less effort than a meatless menu will. What’s more, while animal muscle eaten straight from the carcass requires a lot of ripping and tearing—which demands big, sharp teeth and a powerful bite—once we learned to process our meat, we could do away with some of that, developing smaller teeth and a less pronounced and muscular jaw. This, in turn, may have led to other changes in the skull and neck, favoring a larger brain, better thermoregulation and more advanced speech organs."
    Last edited by EiFit91; 04-19-2021 at 10:39 PM.

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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Then please explain how that is in any way ironic

    Sun set in west

    Gym also in the west...

    Where’s the irony ?
    Because the sun setting in the west....you’d get it if you were sharp. You’re the guy that you have to be told when to laugh. It’s funny...I’m not straying off subject much I’d rather focus on Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake
    my info is GOLD

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    This morning I had a Vince Gironda’s hormone precursor shake and while shopping at Walmart I had every Women over the age of 60 look at me in such a way I felt it move.
    Also... some on the way out gave me all their loose change.....
    Retired...no smartphone....no neighbors......just holes...

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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    I got home late last night. Was at a meeting where beer and whisky was involved. I had the food in my fridge but didn't feel like spending the time to cook it.

    So I ate about 10 ounces of raw steak. I just cut it with a steak knife and used a fork. No ill effects this morning. I was thinking about VIctor Girondas thing while eating the raw meat.

    I should make a disclaimer that a lot of the things I do are not the things a normal person would do.
    I’d be honored to be a tenant, it’s cool to see humorous things like that posted, unfortunately in the area where I live everyone is so sensitive and pc.

    The most raw I’d go is tartar steak, it’s easy to eat because it’s already ground...traditionally you add an egg to it.

    I’ve never done straight raw steak like that, only rare a few times but I prefer medium rare. There’s a certain part of us as men that craves that, you are one of few nowadays. There is an Eastern European community near where I live, you’ll see the old school war veterans from there areas and their big thing is raw meat. You wonder how they make it so long when clearly they’re into their 70’s and 80’s even yet they eat opposite of what the studies recommend.

    I do notice one trend though, nothing processed (I look at my dad). He’s never had cereal for breakfast or tried McDonald’s. Everything is from a whole food sources.
    And
    my info is GOLD

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    Originally Posted by EiFit91 View Post
    https://time.com/4252373/meat-eating...ism-evolution/

    https://www.nature.com/scitable/know...ans-103874273/

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nature16990

    "Overall, Zink and Lieberman concluded, a diet that was one-third animal protein and two-thirds OSUs would have saved early humans about two million chews per year—a 13% reduction—meaning a commensurate savings in time and calorie-burning effort just to get dinner down.

    That mattered for reasons that went beyond just giving our ancient ancestors a few extra free hours in their days. A brain is a very nutritionally demanding organ, and if you want to grow a big one, eating at least some meat will provide you far more calories with far less effort than a meatless menu will. What’s more, while animal muscle eaten straight from the carcass requires a lot of ripping and tearing—which demands big, sharp teeth and a powerful bite—once we learned to process our meat, we could do away with some of that, developing smaller teeth and a less pronounced and muscular jaw. This, in turn, may have led to other changes in the skull and neck, favoring a larger brain, better thermoregulation and more advanced speech organs."
    I had read either this article or something similar to it before, great read!!
    my info is GOLD

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