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  1. #1
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
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    Need an intermediate deadlift program - unsure which to choose

    I am plateaued just beneath five plates on my deadlift and I have a competition/log thread going, aiming to get above 500 in half a year.

    As a novice, simply going in, changing it up occasionally while making sure to challenge my limits and put in legitimate effort has been sufficient to get where I am, but I've never followed a formal, structured program and I think it's time for that now.

    There are several and honestly I have no idea which one I should choose. Basically my informal approach is just to switch around between 5 x 5s, singles, and high volume days, trying to add weight each time I redo the cycle.

    If possible, I'm looking for a deadlift specific program, as that's what I'm most focused on improving.

    EDIT: I faintly recall asking a similar question some months ago but am having a lapse of memory. I don't think it was this specific question pertaining to choosing between programs, but my bad for any overlap as I don't mean to spam.
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  2. #2
    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    Candito has a free deadlift program out there.
    http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-programs/

    A lot of the other programs out there can be kinda crappy..

    But you don't really need a named program.
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  3. #3
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    Calgary 16.

    Not a deadlift program. But then 1 lift templates are kinda balls anyway. Mostly

    It is a very deadlift focused template in general. You could even sub the third squat for a deadlift accessory
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    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    Candito 12 week--9 week without the optional high volume phase--or Calgary 16 or 8 week. Even the Candito 6 week is good for DL.

    Candito's progs characteristically push you. Maybe you're young enough to handle that. Calgary's spread out the volume.
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  5. #5
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. I looked at Candito's spreadsheet and I'm not sure how to evaluate it. Obviously the people who designed it and several who have followed it know what they're doing and are stronger than me, but I just don't know how to read it to discern strengths or weaknesses (which goes along with not knowing how to program informally beyond the common sense of balancing progressive overload with subjectively-perceived recovery).

    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    Candito 12 week--9 week without the optional high volume phase--or Calgary 16 or 8 week. Even the Candito 6 week is good for DL.

    Candito's progs characteristically push you. Maybe you're young enough to handle that. Calgary's spread out the volume.
    I'm 24. It's easy to bite off more than you can chew on the front side, but I don't mind approaching something notoriously challenging. While I haven't exactly been spinning my wheels the past couple of years, I also haven't really dialed in to see what my potential is. So are you saying Calgary's is easier and less ambitious, or does it simply take a different approach?
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  6. #6
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Thanks guys. I looked at Candito's spreadsheet and I'm not sure how to evaluate it. Obviously the people who designed it and several who have followed it know what they're doing and are stronger than me, but I just don't know how to read it to discern strengths or weaknesses (which goes along with not knowing how to program informally beyond the common sense of balancing progressive overload with subjectively-perceived recovery).



    I'm 24. It's easy to bite off more than you can chew on the front side, but I don't mind approaching something notoriously challenging. While I haven't exactly been spinning my wheels the past couple of years, I also haven't really dialed in to see what my potential is. So are you saying Calgary's is easier and less ambitious, or does it simply take a different approach?
    Calgary's just takes a different approach, but to me it feels easier because the volume is spread over 3 days rather than 2 in Candito. It also doesn't push the higher %s the way Candito's push 70-80+%. At 24, you can probably handle it. I can't remember ATM how the tonnage (total weekly volume) compares. Calgary's is more sets of fewer reps of heavier weight, whereas Candito's is fewer sets of more reps of lighter weight. Probably Candito's has higher tonnage.

    Strengths and weaknesses? Do you mean good and bad points of the programs? They're both great programmers. In my experience the Candito programs are very good for their specific goal and timeframe, i.e., peaking for a meet on a specific date x weeks out. Calgary's is more sustainable long-term and very much a learning experience.

    If you've never run a structured program, either one will work.

    If you've never really learned about periodization, pick the Candito 6 Week. It's a straightforward practical introduction to periodization. Same for the DL program.

    If you've got a handle on periodization and want something a bit more advanced, pick the Calgary. That program will teach you a lot.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    Calgary's just takes a different approach, but to me it feels easier because the volume is spread over 3 days rather than 2 in Candito. It also doesn't push the higher %s the way Candito's push 70-80+%. At 24, you can probably handle it. I can't remember ATM how the tonnage (total weekly volume) compares. Calgary's is more sets of fewer reps of heavier weight, whereas Candito's is fewer sets of more reps of lighter weight. Probably Candito's has higher tonnage.

    Strengths and weaknesses? Do you mean good and bad points of the programs? They're both great programmers. In my experience the Candito programs are very good for their specific goal and timeframe, i.e., peaking for a meet on a specific date x weeks out. Calgary's is more sustainable long-term and very much a learning experience.

    If you've never run a structured program, either one will work.

    If you've never really learned about periodization, pick the Candito 6 Week. It's a straightforward practical introduction to periodization. Same for the DL program.

    If you've got a handle on periodization and want something a bit more advanced, pick the Calgary. That program will teach you a lot.
    Huh, aren't one's peak strength years the late 20s/early 30s?

    Well, since the challenge thread will go for another six months, perhaps I'll do the Candito 6 week as an introduction to periodization and to condition for something long term, recoup for a week, then jump on Calgary for the remainder of the time.

    I seem to do better with higher volume and struggle more at the lower rep-ranges (could rep 225 on the bench for over 12 for several months before I could get 315 once despite attempting it frequently, for instance), but as an intermediate still, that might simply reflect the way I'm training and not bespeak any kind of natural proclivity.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Huh, aren't one's peak strength years the late 20s/early 30s?

    Well, since the challenge thread will go for another six months, perhaps I'll do the Candito 6 week as an introduction to periodization and to condition for something long term, recoup for a week, then jump on Calgary for the remainder of the time.

    I seem to do better with higher volume and struggle more at the lower rep-ranges (could rep 225 on the bench for over 12 for several months before I could get 315 once despite attempting it frequently, for instance), but as an intermediate still, that might simply reflect the way I'm training and not bespeak any kind of natural proclivity.
    That may also just reflect bench and not other lifts.
    My bench reacts pretty differently to squat or dead volume and intensity
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Huh, aren't one's peak strength years the late 20s/early 30s?

    Well, since the challenge thread will go for another six months, perhaps I'll do the Candito 6 week as an introduction to periodization and to condition for something long term, recoup for a week, then jump on Calgary for the remainder of the time.

    I seem to do better with higher volume and struggle more at the lower rep-ranges (could rep 225 on the bench for over 12 for several months before I could get 315 once despite attempting it frequently, for instance), but as an intermediate still, that might simply reflect the way I'm training and not bespeak any kind of natural proclivity.
    alot of people will lose athleticism and "power" by their early 30s, however plenty people hitting all-time strength numbers in their 30s and even in their 50s. It's probably why olympic weightlifters peak in their mid-late 20s where the average powerlifter peaks in their mid-late 30s.

    sounds like calgary is a good call, don't think you really need anything deadlift specific. if anything it seems like your squat is lagging behind unless you've had some pre-existing injury.
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    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
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    ^^ Yes, squat is certainly lagging behind. No preexisting injury, either. Ultimately I haven't worked hard enough at it.

    I highly doubt honestly following a respected powerlifting program won't fundamentally reverse that, however.
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    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    ^^ Yes, squat is certainly lagging behind. No preexisting injury, either. Ultimately I have just f*cked around at it.

    I highly doubt honestly following a respected powerlifting program won't fundamentally reverse that, however.
    Fixed mate

    The Candito 6 Week will get you squatting like a soldier. Take a look at week 2. Enjoy lol

    Any solid program will work, it's mainly a question of how you recover from it at different training ages.
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    I think Ed Coan has a deadlift program that's supposed to be pretty good.

    https://liftvault.com/programs/power...e-spreadsheet/
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    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    At first I remembered the Coan too but decided to suggest natty programs.

    Eli, this is a good review of the C6Week

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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    At first I remembered the Coan too but decided to suggest natty programs.

    Eli, this is a good review of the C6Week

    It's not like it was Coans program, just has his name on it.

    Coan just ran the classic 1 deadlift day for his entire time.
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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    Fixed mate

    The Candito 6 Week will get you squatting like a soldier. Take a look at week 2. Enjoy lol

    Any solid program will work, it's mainly a question of how you recover from it at different training ages.
    Hey, hey - you're catching up, but just remember I've still got you beat on the other 2.

    Good watch on that video, by the way. Thanks. I'm finding the technical aspects of powerlifting increasingly interesting, coupled with a mild sense of waste that I haven't buckled down more seriously earlier on. Where I haven't fallen short on effort and dedication, I've lacked in approach and deliberation. More than a grain of truth in your comment, seriously. Showing up and just shuffling around your lifts will get you so far, but at a certain point it demonstrates that the one doing it is only so serious about improvement. Goes to show some of the psychological transformation one undergoes in their lifting journey, as well as the physical.

    Introspectively, there's definitely been a Dunning-Kruger effect for me on my subjective sense of being strong. In addition to thinking myself stronger than I actually was the weaker I actually was, the aspects of strength and physique that I ruminated on has followed an amusing pattern.

    At 17, I thought I was strong because I could curl 40s for a rep or two with leaning and wonky from - the teenager we all make a joke of now. Then I thought if I just threw in some cables and machines here and there it would pretty much cover it. Avoided all barbell exercises as "unnecessary." I was a runner and relatively lean so the little bit of muscle I had made me think I had a great physique. First roommate in college was jacked AF and convinced me that it's impossible to be big unless you actually lift (duh). My older brother was also huge (but he ended up getting onto gear, which I'm going to avoid). My dad has good genetics and a big bench, also, so I felt the need to live up to their example. Quickly realized I was weak as hell and humbled. So, there was a good 2-3 years of potentially excellent progress down the drain because I thought curls and machines were it.

    Once I had finally realized that barbell lifts were indispensable, I thought the 1000 pound club was impressively strong. Benches and deads were regular, but I avoided squats, wide pullups and rows. It's funny because I can clearly trace a fixation in my mind from the biceps, to the chest, then to the posterior chain activated by the deadlift, and now only very recently to the hip flexors and leg musculature of the squat, musing about the lifts for each and pondering the muscles involved. Now I'm far more conscious of the guys that squat four plates for reps, or pull six, or bench four, and realize that I've seen all of this with people I know, an incredibly small microcosm of the whole world that lifts.

    That aside, I really do have an enthusiasm and sincere enjoyment with lifting, and find myself thinking at length about it - at work I've filled pages of my notebook designing workouts and trying to beat a time with them at the gym, and that's just me playing around, so getting a familiarity with real, tested programming is exciting.
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