Serious question regarding USA - China

[atgbrahsrs]

Forget covid-shmovid.

Why do I see miscers calling China a communist economy?

Communism is a form of a socialist planned economy with everything fixed. China right now is more capitalist than the USA in terms of economy. The form of government has remained a one-party state, however (needed for communism).

But the economy is booming, people have gotten exceptionally richer in the past 30 years and there is a lot going on.



So, in essence, is there a difference between being a Timothy working as a software engineer in Apple in Cupertino, USA.

Versus

Being Zhang working as a software engineer in Huawei in Shenzen, China.



For like, quality of life, experiences as part of the non-elite (of any country for that matter).


No shill btw, democracy is infinitely better with no centralised power as in Europe and the USA. Pls, no attack.

(...unless we are going to pretend anyone can be president of USA )

[Glutebrahhh]

*disclaimer, I don't know chit.

I think one important thing to remember here is the difference between communism in theory and in practice. I think China is EFFECTIVELY a communist country. The government owns all the land and the government seems to regulate a lot of the market, so it is a command economy in a sense. That being said, they do still exhibit some capitalistic tendencies for their biggest corporations (tencent, huawai, etc) and give them far more freedoms than lots of other organizations get.

As far as quality of life, I agree they've grown like crazy, but I don't think I'd call their standard of living 'rich' by any means. Avg GDP per capita is still only like $10,000USD? I think. Which isn't exactly a perfect indicator of wealth, but still.. they are currently peaking. Things are only going to start chitting the bed from here, as their biggest productive labor force in history begins to retire and the consequences of the 1 child policy start being noticed.

[TomPaine]

People with any means leave and come here (the US). That should tell you everything that you need to know.

[atgbrahsrs]

*disclaimer, I don't know chit.

I think one important thing to remember here is the difference between communism in theory and in practice. I think China is EFFECTIVELY a communist country. The government owns all the land and the government seems to regulate a lot of the market, so it is a command economy in a sense. That being said, they do still exhibit some capitalistic tendencies for their biggest corporations (tencent, huawai, etc) and give them far more freedoms than lots of other organizations get.

As far as quality of life, I agree they've grown like crazy, but I don't think I'd call their standard of living 'rich' by any means. Avg GDP per capita is still only like $10,000USD? I think. Which isn't exactly a perfect indicator of wealth, but still.. they are currently peaking. Things are only going to start chitting the bed from here, as their biggest productive labor force in history begins to retire and the consequences of the 1 child policy start being noticed.

who cares when in my example you are proportionally similarly well-off in terms of jobs and skillset


is Timothy the corpie so different in the USA

[JStrez]

I've been to China. You only see what they want you to see. Hell our own guide spilled the beans when we were at the bar. You live within your means, and if you ever question authority, your ass disappears and no one asks questions.

brb living under constant fear, gtfo. Cameras are on every corner, everyone is smiling and waving, yet workers are constantly committing suicide. Seems great but when you actually look at it, it's brutal.

[tunafishha]

I've been to China. You only see what they want you to see. Hell our own guide spilled the beans when we were at the bar. You live within your means, and if you ever question authority, your ass disappears and no one asks questions.

brb living under constant fear, gtfo. Cameras are on every corner, everyone is smiling and waving, yet workers are constantly committing suicide. Seems great but when you actually look at it, it's brutal.

Lmao. Wut?

[Glutebrahhh]

who cares when in my example you are proportionally similarly well-off in terms of jobs and skillset


is Timothy the corpie so different in the USA

fuk brah idk. You want better evidence that capitalism is better than communism? You think life is China is comparable enough to the US? You should go check it out. No covid over there at least!

[RedSoxfan1978]

OP just because you can buy Starbucks and Gucci items doesn't mean you're not living in a Communist country.
China is and always has been a Communist regime that rules by force. As in they're the only ones with the guns......

If you step too far out of line then you are gone. Make no mistake about it China is the last strong Communist country left. Don't argue semantics over what is Communism or Socialism or Socialist etc.

Socialist are simply Communist who've not resorted to using their guns yet. History has proven that time and again.

I know, Norway and such countries. Yes, they have less people thank NYC or LA does. They've got largely homogeneous populations. Their governments don't rule them at the end of a bayonet or the barrel of an AK47.

I always tell people to move there. Go to China. I'm sure they're going to be very accepting and accommodating of you. They're not Communist after all right?? Not REALLY...

Good luck sir.

[atgbrahsrs]

OP just because you can buy Starbucks and Gucci items doesn't mean you're not living in a Communist country.
China is and always has been a Communist regime that rules by force. As in they're the only ones with the guns......

If you step too far out of line then you are gone. Make no mistake about it China is the last strong Communist country left. Don't argue semantics over what is Communism or Socialism or Socialist etc.

Socialist are simply Communist who've not resorted to using their guns yet. History has proven that time and again.

I know, Norway and such countries. Yes, they have less people thank NYC or LA does. They've got largely homogeneous populations. Their governments don't rule them at the end of a bayonet or the barrel of an AK47.

I always tell people to move there. Go to China. I'm sure they're going to be very accepting and accommodating of you. They're not Communist after all right?? Not REALLY...

Good luck sir.

Listen, I am very well aware of the ****ery of a dictatorship government - my parents were raised in the Soviet Union and a Soviet Satellite.


But you are again doing what I mentioned in the OP - mixing communist planned economy and dictatorship. Norway is a democratic country with a free-market capitalist economy, 1-1 with the USA. Always has been.

Yes, having GUCCI and Starbucks in Shanghai doesn't mean you will not disappear if you speak ill of authority. But that does not mean the economy is not capitalist. It is a open economy and people can leave.

People from North Korea cant leave, they are a true communist planned economy with a dictatorship gov. So did my parents in the Soviet Union.


All my white friends who I know IRL that went to Shanghai had this experience:

-- Got Finance internships in Private Equity and got paid equally as much as Chicago/NYC (proportional to the cost of living) and got a diverse experience

-- ****ed a ****ton of hot girls

-- Went out and ate a bunch of great food

-- Left happily


Yes, if they started protesting, bad things. Bad things if you say something about BLM in the USA as well. Who cares, if you just don't bother?

All I heard from you is "Ugh thanks for your input commie shill just lol at your high tax socialist paradise Norway". Makes no sense

[GeneralSerpant]

China simply adopted the market system and has had impressive developmental success but is known to still control it in autocratic fashion with a less than transparent type of government.

[atgbrahsrs]

China simply adopted the market system and has had impressive developmental success but is known to still control it in autocratic fashion with a less than transparent type of government.

yes EXACTLY


so now tell me how much does it matter if you are:


A Timothy working as a software engineer in Apple in Cupertino, USA.

Versus

Zhang working as a software engineer in Huawei in Shenzen, China.

[ooph]

Yes, if they started protesting, bad things. Bad things if you say something about BLM in the USA as well. Who cares, if you just don't bother?

Lmao.

First off no the government doesn't make you disappear if you speak ill of BLM.

Secondly BLM =/= The Government. LMAO. How delusional are you?

[atgbrahsrs]

Lmao.

First off no the government doesn't make you disappear if you speak ill of BLM.

Secondly BLM =/= The Government. LMAO. How delusional are you?

you know what I mean

it is bad for your mental health either way


I am just not sure what pleb Timothy enjoys better than Zhang in my example


sugar, guns, ugly/fat women does not count


anyway, GeneralSerpant kinda nailed what I was thinking

[JeepBruh]

I think they more closely resemble fascism than communism, but everyone has different definitions on what "true" communism/fascism/socialism/democracy is nowadays thanks to US schooling and propaganda.

Fascism done "right", as China is currently doing, should absolutely scare the chit out of everyone.

[atgbrahsrs]

I think they more closely resemble fascism than communism, but everyone has different definitions on what "true" communism/fascism/socialism/democracy is nowadays thanks to US schooling and propaganda.

Fascism done "right", as China is currently doing, should absolutely scare the chit out of everyone.

no I love my 500 grams of sugar per day and fat women

america number 1

[Retoaded]

Because the Chinese government owns the means of production of most of the country's industries. You also cannot own property in China, which is all owned by the government. Its basically the definition of communism.

[FitnessEmperor]

It's a hybrid economy, there are still state owned companies, some censorship and the government still owns all the property technically, but capitalism & large multinational corporations have been given free rein to do business since Deng Xiaoping, but as long as they don't mess with the overall planned economy and goals of the party.

[tk217]

China isn't capitalist.

China's centralized financial hub controls everything.

They can wipe you and your business away at a stroke of a pen with no recourse.

[Glutebrahhh]

you know what I mean

it is bad for your mental health either way


I am just not sure what pleb Timothy enjoys better than Zhang in my example


sugar, guns, ugly/fat women does not count


anyway, GeneralSerpant kinda nailed what I was thinking

It seems like you're already decided and more interested in arguing than discussing. If you believe that quality of life is equal (which I would disagree with, but I don't have any first hand experience, and only limited anecdotal experience) then what are we really talking about? Is the nature of the life that a person experiences? Whether or not they have pride in their work, pride in their country?

If Timothy and Zheng work the same job making the same money, maybe their lives are equal in all material respects. Is it worth considering people who are not highly educated, working in specialized industries? 1.4 billion vs 350 million? Poverty in america is still wealthy as fck in most 3rd world countries. What is a poverty lifestyle in China? How prevalent is it?

Maybe you can restate your OP in more specific terms, are you just unhappy with people pegging China as communist?

[GooBaaa]

If it's so great, go move there

[RedSoxfan1978]

Listen, I am very well aware of the ****ery of a dictatorship government - my parents were raised in the Soviet Union and a Soviet Satellite.


But you are again doing what I mentioned in the OP - mixing communist planned economy and dictatorship. Norway is a democratic country with a free-market capitalist economy, 1-1 with the USA. Always has been.

Yes, having GUCCI and Starbucks in Shanghai doesn't mean you will not disappear if you speak ill of authority. But that does not mean the economy is not capitalist. It is a open economy and people can leave.

People from North Korea cant leave, they are a true communist planned economy with a dictatorship gov. So did my parents in the Soviet Union.


All my white friends who I know IRL that went to Shanghai had this experience:

-- Got Finance internships in Private Equity and got paid equally as much as Chicago/NYC (proportional to the cost of living) and got a diverse experience

-- ****ed a ****ton of hot girls

-- Went out and ate a bunch of great food

-- Left happily


Yes, if they started protesting, bad things. Bad things if you say something about BLM in the USA as well. Who cares, if you just don't bother?

All I heard from you is "Ugh thanks for your input commie shill just lol at your high tax socialist paradise Norway". Makes no sense

Well then you know Communism is trash. As far as the rest of your post goes, you can pick out something good about almost anywhere. I wouldn't go to China. Just my personal views. It's interesting that you make note of the BLM and mass media bias here regarding it. Ask your parents about it. This right now in America is how Communism begins. I wasn't calling you a Commie at all. I just take a very dim view of China and such countries in general.

If you're Zhang in China and piss them off they'll likely shoot you and send a bill to your family for the bullets they used LOL. Stay in the West brah!!! We're all gonna make it.

[GeneralSerpant]

yes EXACTLY


so now tell me how much does it matter if you are:


A Timothy working as a software engineer in Apple in Cupertino, USA.

Versus

Zhang working as a software engineer in Huawei in Shenzen, China.

Not sure why you're comparing two workers lol. That's not what US vs China economic affairs is about.