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  1. #361
    Nihilist Karl_Hungus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    I meant the very specific disparities in health care treatment by the doctors themselves.
    Not just perceptions......
    You don't do Tuskegee experiments on people you like.
    The Tuskegee experiments also produced procedural changes and requirements for how research is conducted, so it doesn't make sense to suggest that those experiments are reflective of medical treatments today. You said that there are "very specific disparities in healthcare treatment by doctors themselves". How are doctors implementing racism?
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  2. #362
    Nihilist Karl_Hungus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Ben, how is that an example of systemic racism? Systemic Racism is the accusation where every single white person's DNA is ingrained with inherent hate, so much that all whites mean harm against all black people - so much so that all white people must be de-programmed from the womb.

    I am not saying there wasn't racism in your example.
    His example was a woman who received poor treatment which she attributed to race. It could have been racism, but it could have been something else entirely. It seems that the default in these situations is to always claim racism.
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  3. #363
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    His example was a woman who received poor treatment which she attributed to race. It could have been racism, but it could have been something else entirely. It seems that the default in these situations is to always claim racism.
    Agreed
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  4. #364
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    The cop knew Floyd, so theres more to it than everyone knows, so killing himself may not be the thing to do (maybe the crowd control guy should), but if he's smart he will join the powerlifting club.

    btw, this don't seem so bad.......

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  5. #365
    Squats and Milk Bando's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Systemic Racism is the accusation where every single white person's DNA is ingrained with inherent hate, so much that all whites mean harm against all black people - so much so that all white people must be de-programmed from the womb.
    Incorrect. The first Policemen in the USA were white escaped slave hunters. They were commissioned to capture escaped slaves and dole out punishment as they saw fit, on the spot. If you're old enough you might remember Alex Haley's "Roots" where they chopped off half of Kunta Kinte's foot. Systemic racism is not in a person's DNA, it's in the DNA of our Judicial and Legislative history. Fortunately, people like you will die off in the next 20 - 30 years and erode away at systematic racism.

    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    I am having trouble with my black neighbors over the last few weeks,
    Have you talked to them? Maybe walk over with a cold 6 pack?

    I grew up in a very tough neighborhood, I think we were the only white people. It's really easy to be divisive but it's a lot more productive to build bridges.
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  6. #366
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    Originally Posted by Bando View Post
    Incorrect. The first Policemen in the USA were white escaped slave hunters. They were commissioned to capture escaped slaves and dole out punishment as they saw fit, on the spot. If you're old enough you might remember Alex Haley's "Roots" where they chopped off half of Kunta Kinte's foot. Systemic racism is not in a person's DNA, it's in the DNA of our Judicial and Legislative history. Fortunately, people like you will die off in the next 20 - 30 years and erode away at systematic racism.
    I'm not sure where you heard that from, but that's incorrect. There were slave patrols that did that sort of thing in the South, but there was public police forces established in Boston and NYC decades before that.

    Those slave patrols actually drew more from the military as well - that's why the Citadel and Virginia Military Institute put up formal apologies for being a part of that years ago. They were pretty crappy, no doubt about that.

    Modern policing as we know it now came into effect near the end of the Civil War - Boston actually has the oldest police department in the US, they were formed in 1838.
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  7. #367
    Crawling back under rock OldFartTom's Avatar
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    I read an interesting anecdote about racism in someone's (Alan Sugar) autobiography. He says that at primary school (age 5-11) there was no racism/anti sematism, as soon as he went to secondary school (11-18) it started. His point was racism is learnt not genetic. And also demonstrates it can become part of a peer group's culture.

    Personally I'd go as far as to say that suggesting behaviour as connected to genetics... Such as saying all white people are racist, is equally racist and offensive as saying something negative about all black people.

    Don't go on looks, you must "Judge a tree by its fruit". That advice was given a couple of thousand years ago.
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  8. #368
    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bando View Post


    Have you talked to them? Maybe walk over with a cold 6 pack?

    I grew up in a very tough neighborhood, I think we were the only white people. It's really easy to be divisive but it's a lot more productive to build bridges.
    They don't drink alcohol, only concerned with stuffing their fat asses and are lousy conversationalists, the only thing I may consider is having them as over as the guest of honor at the supper table. Pretty sure you missed the ending.
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  9. #369
    Registered User Oceanside's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    They don't drink alcohol, only concerned with stuffing their fat asses and are lousy conversationalists, the only thing I may consider is having them as over as the guest of honor at the supper table. Pretty sure you missed the ending.
    bears can't hold beer cans/bottles because of the pads on their paws .

    totally dependent on humans in that regard .
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  10. #370
    Crawling back under rock OldFartTom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oceanside View Post
    bears can't hold beer cans/bottles because of the pads on their paws ...
    I thought it was because they didn't have an opposable thumbs? Whatever the reason, we can say with certainty "bears can't hold their drink"
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  11. #371
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bando View Post
    Incorrect. The first Policemen in the USA were white escaped slave hunters. They were commissioned to capture escaped slaves and dole out punishment as they saw fit, on the spot. If you're old enough you might remember Alex Haley's "Roots" where they chopped off half of Kunta Kinte's foot. Systemic racism is not in a person's DNA, it's in the DNA of our Judicial and Legislative history. Fortunately, people like you will die off in the next 20 - 30 years and erode away at systematic racism.

    Have you talked to them? Maybe walk over with a cold 6 pack?

    I grew up in a very tough neighborhood, I think we were the only white people. It's really easy to be divisive but it's a lot more productive to build bridges.
    The DNA part wasn’t literal. It was what I thought an obvious metaphor. As such my post is accurate. You missed my point that our country is not enthralled in systemic racism.
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  12. #372
    Crawling back under rock OldFartTom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    ... but if he's smart he will join the powerlifting club....
    Sure, and B.B. King plays a concert every lunchtime. Do you think videos like this are the reality, or do you think that they get made to promote some prison governor's career?
    Can you imagine serving time if: 1) You are a cop 2) you are Chauvin. I don't think it's going to be powerlifting buddies and slaps on the back for him
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  13. #373
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    Sure, and B.B. King plays a concert every lunchtime. Do you think videos like this are the reality, or do you think that they get made to promote some prison governor's career?
    Can you imagine serving time if: 1) You are a cop 2) you are Chauvin. I don't think it's going to be powerlifting buddies and slaps on the back for him
    First, the vid could be actors?

    Second, smaller maximum security state prisons do have this sorta thing, An old strongman buddy of mine worked as the powerlifting coach in a PA prision. He said the weights kept these guys from killing guards and each other, but they had to be model prisoners in order to lift, so no gangsters chit.

    Not every prison is like that.
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  14. #374
    Registered User x-trainer ben's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Ben, how is that an example of systemic racism? Systemic Racism is the accusation where every single white person's DNA is ingrained with inherent hate, so much that all whites mean harm against all black people - so much so that all white people must be de-programmed from the womb.

    I am not saying there wasn't racism in your example.
    That isn't the dictionary definition.
    Systemic/institutional used interchangeably, is when the institutions in the country crate issues for a race.

    Wiki: Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of racism that is embedded through laws within society or an organization. It can lead to such issues as discrimination in criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power, and education, among other issues.

    The example I used is an all too common example of a pattern or practice, not just one overly sensitive woman's subjective assessment.

    Anyway,there are tons of examples, I just tried to use a less emotional topic here. 60 minutes did a special on the health care angle which is relatively new to me, but the professor has been studying it for 40 years.
    Here is the 13 minute segment.


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minu...021-04-18/#app

    Here is another example, the black farmers in the USA. Look at the timeline.

    https://www.ewg.org/research/black-f...usda-timeline/

    My only point is that it exists in different areas.
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults.
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  15. #375
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Ben, I respect your opinion. I don’t refer to the dictionary or Wiki for definitions for both of us to interpret. The entire point is that yes, racism exists and it is horrible. But, our country is not experiencing systemic racism which is that racism is so pervasive and ingrained in our entire society that everything we do and everything we think about is based on what how we can keep a race down.

    I accept there is racism. I do not accept every buzzword or phrase that the politicians and MSM promote to make our country more divided. That is worse than racism.
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  16. #376
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Ben, I respect your opinion. I don’t refer to the dictionary or Wiki for definitions for both of us to interpret. The entire point is that yes, racism exists and it is horrible. But, our country is not experiencing systemic racism which is that racism is so pervasive and ingrained in our entire society that everything we do and everything we think about is based on what how we can keep a race down.

    I accept there is racism. I do not accept every buzzword or phrase that the politicians and MSM promote to make our country more divided. That is worse than racism.
    Its an old term, much much older than me.
    The degree to which it exists has changed.... for the better, yes, thank god, but i thought i read in an earlier post that it did not exist.
    I was simply arguing that it did, and still does exist in many varying areas.
    It isn't about pop culture/main stream media/politics for me because i am not a TV guy, i like fresh air and activity, but it is about historic trends and tendencies.
    Redlining is another example.
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults.
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  17. #377
    Nihilist Karl_Hungus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    That isn't the dictionary definition.
    Systemic/institutional used interchangeably, is when the institutions in the country crate issues for a race.

    Wiki: Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of racism that is embedded through laws within society or an organization. It can lead to such issues as discrimination in criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power, and education, among other issues.

    The example I used is an all too common example of a pattern or practice, not just one overly sensitive woman's subjective assessment.

    Anyway,there are tons of examples, I just tried to use a less emotional topic here. 60 minutes did a special on the health care angle which is relatively new to me, but the professor has been studying it for 40 years.
    Here is the 13 minute segment.


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minu...021-04-18/#app

    Here is another example, the black farmers in the USA. Look at the timeline.

    https://www.ewg.org/research/black-f...usda-timeline/

    My only point is that it exists in different areas.
    Watched the 60 minutes video, and I still see no real examples of systematic racism. Simply having a disparity is not evidence of racism.
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    Watched the 60 minutes video, and I still see no real examples of systematic racism. Simply having a disparity is not evidence of racism.
    Then your goal is to not see racism at all, it's ok too.
    The R word isn't a word that i throw around lightly, it is ONLY TO BE USED when it actually exists.
    To each is own as granny used to say, maybe your definition is much higher than what is contained in dictionaries.
    Agree to disagree, that is what adults do.
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults.
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Its an old term, much much older than me.
    The degree to which it exists has changed.... for the better, yes, thank god, but i thought i read in an earlier post that it did not exist.
    I was simply arguing that it did, and still does exist in many varying areas.
    It isn't about pop culture/main stream media/politics for me because i am not a TV guy, i like fresh air and activity, but it is about historic trends and tendencies.
    Redlining is another example.
    Thanks. If you broke it down, systemic racism may exist in certain segments of our society, but that can be debated, as well and IMO would still be a stretch from concluding it as racism. If that were the case as a scenario, then it would be easier to find a solution, as opposed to blanket statements about our country. Not referring to you or anyone else here.
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    I read an interesting anecdote about racism in someone's (Alan Sugar) autobiography. He says that at primary school (age 5-11) there was no racism/anti sematism, as soon as he went to secondary school (11-18) it started. His point was racism is learnt not genetic. And also demonstrates it can become part of a peer group's culture.

    Personally I'd go as far as to say that suggesting behaviour as connected to genetics... Such as saying all white people are racist, is equally racist and offensive as saying something negative about all black people.

    Don't go on looks, you must "Judge a tree by its fruit". That advice was given a couple of thousand years ago.

    Trying to reply getting the access denied message. Finally got it to take, and it was my parentheses that seemed to be the issue.

    Agree that racism as we usually discuss it - specifically negative attitudes/behaviors towards a particular people group - is NOT genetic. Having spent half my life in other cultures than the US around the world - the observation that negative attitudes towards others is learned is an accurate one.

    I'm speaking here from personal experience, but having done my research/dissertation and many years in my profession in cross-cultural research - there's plenty of data to back this up too...

    However, the tendency to see out-groups people unlike me as a threat and in-groups as safe IS VERY ingrained in our genetics. This lends to very easily developing racist beliefs and behaviors, and efforts must be conscious and intentional to avoid developing them.
    Last edited by PhDPepper1111; 04-23-2021 at 09:27 AM.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    I am having trouble with my ...
    I'm disturbed by your neighbor attitude, the way you categorize them in terms of blacks and browns and attribute this negative talk, threatening to shoot them, just sickening.
    Brando's suggestion, surprised me. So.. when are you going over there with some beers and give them a big old bear hug and make your peace.
    You mentioned them before in other posts. Have you got any pics of your neighbors close up, especially one of your brown friends, they can be some big mean f*****s right, worse than blacks?
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Its an old term, much much older than me.
    The degree to which it exists has changed.... for the better, yes, thank god, but i thought i read in an earlier post that it did not exist.
    I was simply arguing that it did, and still does exist in many varying areas.
    It isn't about pop culture/main stream media/politics for me because i am not a TV guy, i like fresh air and activity, but it is about historic trends and tendencies.
    Redlining is another example.


    Here’s where you/they are wrong, you guys NEVER point out that there are places white people cant go. It’s like you guys think whites can go anywhere, well let me tell you something amigo, as an outsider, we can’t be just walking down a st in Baltimore city unless we got some business there.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Here’s where you/they are wrong, you guys NEVER point out that there are places white people cant go. It’s like you guys think whites can go anywhere, well let me tell you something amigo, as an outsider, we can’t be just walking down a st in Baltimore city unless we got some business there.
    Must be nice to have an option not to go where you don't want to go?
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    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Here’s where you/they are wrong, you guys NEVER point out that there are places white people cant go. It’s like you guys think whites can go anywhere, well let me tell you something amigo, as an outsider, we can’t be just walking down a st in Baltimore city unless we got some business there.

    Your tactic don't work there?


    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Must be nice to have an option not to go where you don't want to go?

    Really, why don’t you tell that to the truck driver who got his skull cracked open just doing his job.

    You think that’s a joke? How dare he try and provide for his family.
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Then your goal is to not see racism at all, it's ok too.
    The R word isn't a word that i throw around lightly, it is ONLY TO BE USED when it actually exists.
    To each is own as granny used to say, maybe your definition is much higher than what is contained in dictionaries.
    Agree to disagree, that is what adults do.
    My only goal is to see things accurately, and recognize that it doesn't make sense from a data perspective to draw associations and then assign racism as the default explanation. Just as an example, if I describe two groups of people: Group A and Group B. Group B is more likely to get convicted of a violent crime, spend time in prison, be treated as suspects by the police, use drugs, get kicked out of school, suffer from health problems like cancer, cardiovascular disease, kidney disease, liver disease, die due to gun violence, die in a car crash, and die at a younger age. Just looking at these associations might make you think that Group B is suffering at the hands of an oppressive society. That is until I define the groups......


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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Really, why don’t you tell that to the truck driver who got his skull cracked open just doing his job.

    You think that’s a joke? How dare he try and provide for his family.
    Whats the story on this trucker? I can't recall it
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Marky -I'm not naming any names but you know who you are - Marks.
    I believe in systemic love. Will that catch on? I think not.



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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Whats the story on this trucker? I can't recall it
    Of course the white man gets forgotten, think real hard, he got pulled out of his rig while driving it and got his head split by a brick while multiple people stomped him for driving while white!!!!!!
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