Calling anyone interested in a friendly strength competition for this spring/summer

[ECGordyn]

Hmm, but how many of us max out every month? Last time I maxed was end of December before my cut, don't anticipate going for a max set or 1 rep effort every month.

Also what about weighted chins, OHP, rows, face pulls, calf raises, and all the other lifts we are supposed to be tracking in this thing?

Triples or singles at RPE 8 is a good estimate of strength without much fatigue cost. No need for max singles every month.

I might not do that every month, though. Maybe every 6 weeks. If I overshoot the RPE then I've gotta dig myself out of a fatigue trench for half a week, rest and eat and dial back training and otherwise nurse my 43 year old body, and that's just lost time. One obstacle to my progress last year was trying to peak every 3 months, and it interrupted momentum more than really necessary. I've been enjoying this higher rep training recently and plan to mostly continue with that with periodic checks.

Will triple DL today, run a lift report and post that as my progress check.

Edit: Harder and slower than I wanted. Hadn't pulled above 142 in 3+ months. E1RM 198

[ECGordyn]

Lift report for SBD, OHP, and Weighted Chin, plus bodyweight graph from the past year. No data for Row so that'll have to wait until next report in 6 weeks or so.

Current E1RMs:
Squat 185
Bench 127
DL 198
OHP 80
W.Chin 126

Bodyweight 82.3 on 30 April, down almost 7 kg from 89.1 on 26 Dec.

Comp. Total: 510.8 kg
Current Wilks: 342.66







All data from the RTS app.

[WolfRose7]

Lift report for SBD, OHP, and Weighted Chin, plus bodyweight graph from the past year. No data for Row so that'll have to wait until next report in 6 weeks or so.

Current E1RMs:
Squat 185
Bench 127
DL 198
OHP 80
W.Chin 126

Bodyweight 82.3 on 30 April, down almost 7 kg from 89.1 on 26 Dec.

Comp. Total: 510.8 lbs
Current Wilks: 342.66







All data from the RTS app.

I like how you've shafted your own total.

500lbs 😂

[ECGordyn]

I like how you've shafted your own total.

500lbs 😂

It was a test to check if you were paying attention.
"Dtaa dee" they say in Thailand, means "good eye."

[WolfRose7]

It was a test to check if you were paying attention.
"Dtaa dee" they say in Thailand, means "good eye."

Interesting what you say about deadlift intensity BTW, have had a few good talks in my coaching crew about individual response to high Central and high peripheral stress protocols and how reactions differ hugely between individuals and even between lifts within individuals.

Theres one elite guy who hits @9s constantly on the main lifts and if he doesn't his lifts just drop off, there's others who tank on anything above @8 and need lots more low rpe work to maintain steady progress.

And the same goes for main lift frequency and volume vs accessory work.

I'm definitely a high lift frequency guy, and seemingly favour more central stress than peripheral.

[MyEgoProblem]

High int & high freq crew! I grow like hell with very little volume for lower.. =) its great.. Singles and triples every day life. Heavy squat & Deads never fatigue me at all.

Back grows regardless of what I do for it.. But Bench... That's a different animal for me. Still haven't fully figured out what's best yet. Or if it all works just as badly given my injury history.

Ive got no time to 'compete' in anything atm sadly. I'm just riding machines at work right now and trying to squeeze in a bench or dead session when I'm awake..

Hoping work life settles in soon

[ECGordyn]

Interesting what you say about deadlift intensity BTW, have had a few good talks in my coaching crew about individual response to high Central and high peripheral stress protocols and how reactions differ hugely between individuals and even between lifts within individuals.

Theres one elite guy who hits @9s constantly on the main lifts and if he doesn't his lifts just drop off, there's others who tank on anything above @8 and need lots more low rpe work to maintain steady progress.

And the same goes for main lift frequency and volume vs accessory work.

I'm definitely a high lift frequency guy, and seemingly favour more central stress than peripheral.

That's something I noticed last year running the Calgary 4 times, that if I didn't keep lifting fairly heavy & hard, then strength dropped off. Even in these hypertrophy blocks I feel crusty after 2 days off. Looking at the strength curves for Sq & DL in my graphs above, each peak was 3 weeks before I actually tested. Granted those are E1RMs, and I've always felt better at reps than at singles, but still.. I'll keep that in mind about that need for high int. high freq.

So peripheral fatigue is muscular fatigue, and central fatigue is CNS fatigue (?). What's the solution for each? I'd guess the solution for peripheral fatigue is just strength and hypertrophy of a muscle + greater work capacity, as a stronger bigger muscle can go longer before peripheral fatigue sets in. Is there a similar "solution" for central fatigue? Or, how to forestall central fatigue, that is, how to train longer/harder before central fatigue sets in? Maybe I'm not explaining the question very well.

[EliKoehn]

What program is that EC? That level of data piques my interest.

Curious how you'd compare the fatigue management of Calgary against Candito's 6 week program? Reading it over and watching that analysis video you referenced, it seems like balancing fatigue across a dynamic (and short) approach is its biggest selling point.

Looking at week one, for instance (and even based off of my own 1RMs) the squats look like they're going to suck up a lot of the total training volume whereas the bench looks pretty easy relative to the inputted max, probably giving it the slack for that.

I'm very curious to see how the balance between stimulus and fatigue plays out.

[ECGordyn]

What program is that EC? That level of data piques my interest.

Curious how you'd compare the fatigue management of Calgary against Candito's 6 week program? Reading it over and watching that analysis video you referenced, it seems like balancing fatigue across a dynamic (and short) approach is its biggest selling point.

Looking at week one, for instance (and even based off of my own 1RMs) the squats look like they're going to suck up a lot of the total training volume whereas the bench looks pretty easy relative to the inputted max, probably giving it the slack for that.

I'm very curious to see how the balance between stimulus and fatigue plays out.

It's the free training app on the RTS website. https://www.reactivetrainingsystems.com/AppHome/Index

Brazos Valley Barbell has a free program with similar detail built into the spreadsheet. Link through a YouTube vid couple months back. I think it's called Brazos Valley Barbell 2.0 or something.

The Calgary has better fatigue management as the lifts are spread over 3-4 days. You get about the same stimulus for squat and DL over 3 days rather than 2 days in the Candito. However, the Candito peaks you in 5-6 weeks, whereas the Calgary does it in 9-16 weeks (depending which program you run). So there's a specific benefit and trade-off to each program.

I ran the C6W 11 times in 2018-2019. 95+% of the time I felt prepared for each training session. Some days knocked me flat but I got used to that level of fatigue. There were maybe 2 training cycles that I stopped and restarted because I felt ground down from cumulative fatigue, because I never deloaded between cycles. In retrospect, one key to managing fatigue is choosing manageable weights in the open slots. For example, all the squat weights are prescribed, but about half the DL weights are your choice (the 3x8 variation slots). Same with most of the upper body lifts, they're your choice. Choose those weights with fatigue management as a big factor, and you'll do well overall.

[WolfRose7]

That's something I noticed last year running the Calgary 4 times, that if I didn't keep lifting fairly heavy & hard, then strength dropped off. Even in these hypertrophy blocks I feel crusty after 2 days off. Looking at the strength curves for Sq & DL in my graphs above, each peak was 3 weeks before I actually tested. Granted those are E1RMs, and I've always felt better at reps than at singles, but still.. I'll keep that in mind about that need for high int. high freq.

So peripheral fatigue is muscular fatigue, and central fatigue is CNS fatigue (?). What's the solution for each? I'd guess the solution for peripheral fatigue is just strength and hypertrophy of a muscle + greater work capacity, as a stronger bigger muscle can go longer before peripheral fatigue sets in. Is there a similar "solution" for central fatigue? Or, how to forestall central fatigue, that is, how to train longer/harder before central fatigue sets in? Maybe I'm not explaining the question very well.

Central is more systemic general, peripheral is more localised muscular yeah.

We don't need a solution per say, we want both types of stress, different people react more positively or negatively to different amounts of each.

So the solution isn't forestalling either but getting the right balance of each for the intended goals, in both dev blocks and pivot blocks

[WolfRose7]

What program is that EC? That level of data piques my interest.

Curious how you'd compare the fatigue management of Calgary against Candito's 6 week program? Reading it over and watching that analysis video you referenced, it seems like balancing fatigue across a dynamic (and short) approach is its biggest selling point.

Looking at week one, for instance (and even based off of my own 1RMs) the squats look like they're going to suck up a lot of the total training volume whereas the bench looks pretty easy relative to the inputted max, probably giving it the slack for that.

I'm very curious to see how the balance between stimulus and fatigue plays out.

Slight personal gripe with Candito, I think he low balls bench stress in general for most serious lifters.

[EliKoehn]

Slight personal gripe with Candito, I think he low balls bench stress in general for most serious lifters.

For me, this is actually probably a good thing.

My squat is disproportionately weak by a large margin and my deadlift is what I am most interested in improving this year, anyway. If it's the old Pick 2, for a few months I don't mind leaving bench on the back burner. At least for a little bit to even things out.

Moving into a longer-term program I wouldn't want it to be underworked, though.

[WolfRose7]

For me, this is actually probably a good thing.

My squat is disproportionately weak by a large margin and my deadlift is what I am most interested in improving this year, anyway. If it's the old Pick 2, for a few months I don't mind leaving bench on the back burner. At least for a little bit to even things out.

Moving into a longer-term program I wouldn't want it to be underworked, though.

It might differ too, some people do get by on less work for it, but it's certainly not the norm from What I've seen.

Only 6 weeks so not a bad thing to focus s n d.
Calgary hits all 3 well IMO too so if you test that post you'll be great

[EliKoehn]

It might differ too, some people do get by on less work for it, but it's certainly not the norm from What I've seen.

Only 6 weeks so not a bad thing to focus s n d.
Calgary hits all 3 well IMO too so if you test that post you'll be great

Let's hope! While I'd like to get to where I can put up three any given week I'm fresh and max out a little above that with some specialized training, beyond that I'd be content with bench until squat and deadlift are more than intermediate for my bodyweight.

Just looked it up and, amazingly, the tested IPF raw bench record for my state is only 385 for my weight class. I've seen 405 done in person so I guess not many of the truly strong are interested in competition.

https://uspa.net/drug-tested-oklahom...ench-only.html

[jademonkey]

Let's hope! While I'd like to get to where I can put up three any given week I'm fresh and max out a little above that with some specialized training, beyond that I'd be content with bench until squat and deadlift are more than intermediate for my bodyweight.

Just looked it up and, amazingly, the tested IPF raw bench record for my state is only 385 for my weight class. I've seen 405 done in person so I guess not many of the truly strong are interested in competition.

https://uspa.net/drug-tested-oklahom...ench-only.html

Yeah, but... Oklahoma. The raw drug tested record in my state for my weight class is 420. Fitting, for California.

[WolfRose7]

Let's hope! While I'd like to get to where I can put up three any given week I'm fresh and max out a little above that with some specialized training, beyond that I'd be content with bench until squat and deadlift are more than intermediate for my bodyweight.

Just looked it up and, amazingly, the tested IPF raw bench record for my state is only 385 for my weight class. I've seen 405 done in person so I guess not many of the truly strong are interested in competition.

https://uspa.net/drug-tested-oklahom...ench-only.html

I'm never coming close to Wales bench haha, the record at 90kg by Hubbard is 215kg.
Although hilariously, that record beats all the above classes up to 140+ which is still only 10kg higher

I notice someone took offense to my ugly sheet 😂

[ECGordyn]

maybe a google sheet with breakpoints every 4-6 weeks or so, input columns and +kgs/lbs gained column

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

There ya go, easy enough to add lifts etc.

I'm never coming close to Wales bench haha, the record at 90kg by Hubbard is 215kg.
Although hilariously, that record beats all the above classes up to 140+ which is still only 10kg higher

I notice someone took offense to my ugly sheet ������

Bumping sheet onto this page. Yeah I added a kg->lbs conversion and colored some of the cells, makes it easier to read.

[ECGordyn]

Slight personal gripe with Candito, I think he low balls bench stress in general for most serious lifters.

For me, this is actually probably a good thing.

My squat is disproportionately weak by a large margin and my deadlift is what I am most interested in improving this year, anyway. If it's the old Pick 2, for a few months I don't mind leaving bench on the back burner. At least for a little bit to even things out.

Moving into a longer-term program I wouldn't want it to be underworked, though.

That's true about the C6W bench, but the benefit is that you finish the program resensitized to higher volume, which the Calgary will hit you with and make you grow. I actually compared the tonnage of the working sets in the first 5 weeks of both programs. With a Bench TM of 265, the Candito has about 40,000 total pounds lifted over 5 weeks, where the Calgary has 106,000. That's a massive difference in benching volume.

In Thailand I could just set a national record in the TPF if I went to compete in the 83kg weight class Masters 1 division. Not saying much as the TPF is fairly new here, and there aren't many Masters competitors, but still.
https://www.thaipowerliftingfederati...l-records-men/

[MyEgoProblem]

Re; candy toe 6week strength

A lot of people who think they need more volume plug in smolov Jr or his adv bench setup for the bench portion of the 6w

I'd say about 30% of people who the program is intended for might need more volume than he gives in 6ws.

It's intended to follow his LP or other LP really. much like a texas method would slot in. So early intermediate. And the majority of people who are the right avatar to run it don't need more volume.

Never heard a single complaint about the s&d portion from anyone tho 😂

[CW47]

There's also a squat thread if you've got time to add to that
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1637333633

Your goal numbers are very realistic with the right programming. You look taller than 5'5.5" in your vids

I saw the squat thread. Online time is extremely limited right now, and I've basically only been posting updates in my log. I will jump into the squat thread if that changes later this year.

And yeah, the only reason I'm not super confident about hitting those numbers is because I'm cutting weight at the same time. It will be interesting to see if I'm able to drop 20 pounds while increasing my lifts by that amount. May be possible since I should be nowhere near by ceiling on any of the lifts, but definitely would be easier if I was bulking or maintaining instead of cutting, lol.

Interesting discussion on how individuals react differently to things. I was always afraid of maxing out because of how much I read about the fatigue and wear and tear that can cause. And now that I've been doing it regularly for about 9 month I've found that I can handle it easily. That obviously may change as my max's increase, but right now I honestly feel like I could max out in every workout without overfatiguing myself. What really gets me is high rep sets (over 10 reps) of squats and deads, and AMRAP sets on anything. Even 5x5's are much harder on me than working up to and hitting a max.

Having said that, I definitely need most of those set/rep ranges in my training to continue progressing. It's just a matter of finding the right balance, which is something I'm still ironing out.

[ECGordyn]

Never heard a single complaint about the s&d portion from anyone tho 😂

The results of s&d, not the process. Secretly ppl cry like babies over Wk 2, me included. Wk4 D2 is pretty hard too.



Edit: That was the program that really made me enjoy squats, and made me feel like a real, serious lifter. Before it I was stuck at 255x8, grinding away on LP, never thought I'd hit 2 and a half plates. 5 weeks of submax training, some of which was tough, smoked 285x4, and that was pretty cool in the end.

[MyEgoProblem]

The results of s&d, not the process. Secretly ppl cry like babies over Wk 2, me included. Wk4 D2 is pretty hard too.



Edit: That was the program that really made me enjoy squats, and made me feel like a real, serious lifter. Before it I was stuck at 255x8, grinding away on LP, never thought I'd hit 2 and a half plates. 5 weeks of submax training, some of which was tough, smoked 285x4, and that was pretty cool in the end.

Nice bro.
I just squatted every day.. Then I loved em.
Now I dont really do em.

And yeah.i meant the Results 😂

[WolfRose7]

I saw the squat thread. Online time is extremely limited right now, and I've basically only been posting updates in my log. I will jump into the squat thread if that changes later this year.

And yeah, the only reason I'm not super confident about hitting those numbers is because I'm cutting weight at the same time. It will be interesting to see if I'm able to drop 20 pounds while increasing my lifts by that amount. May be possible since I should be nowhere near by ceiling on any of the lifts, but definitely would be easier if I was bulking or maintaining instead of cutting, lol.

Interesting discussion on how individuals react differently to things. I was always afraid of maxing out because of how much I read about the fatigue and wear and tear that can cause. And now that I've been doing it regularly for about 9 month I've found that I can handle it easily. That obviously may change as my max's increase, but right now I honestly feel like I could max out in every workout without overfatiguing myself. What really gets me is high rep sets (over 10 reps) of squats and deads, and AMRAP sets on anything. Even 5x5's are much harder on me than working up to and hitting a max.

Having said that, I definitely need most of those set/rep ranges in my training to continue progressing. It's just a matter of finding the right balance, which is something I'm still ironing out.

Stealing coaches principles.

This would indicate you need to be somewhat careful with peripheral stress volume, but still utilise it in development blocks, while having more licence to push to things like sets of 3,2 and 1 up to @9s regulary.

You'd probably want to drop peripheral very low for pivots/Deloads but maintain some amount central, and you'd definitely want to do similar if you peaked for a test/meet.

[WolfRose7]

Annoying top set of bench, hit the j hooks on the 1st rep and added an rpe to the set easily.




Decent top double for squats, edging back to PR territory


We trending okay too,
Green end of last block, red start of block 2

Spoiler!

[ECGordyn]

Annoying top set of bench, hit the j hooks on the 1st rep and added an rpe to the set easily.




Decent top double for squats, edging back to PR territory


We trending okay too,
Green end of last block, red start of block 2

Spoiler!

Good tracking man. Looks like Squat & Bench have had similar strength curves since 28 Mar. Any reason why?

@Eli, Found this vid about bench ROM: the PL arch or the Bodybuilding arch. He doesn't give a clear answer about which is better universally, only that each serves a particular purpose. The PL arch makes the lifter stronger for utilizing more upper body musculature, for reducing ROM, and for leveraging the body into the strongest position. Those are all necessary for executing maximum strength, in a meet or in a contest or whatever. While the BB flat arch is necessary for building up the musculature needed to move heavy weights. Longer ROM and disadvantaged position build a wider base so that the peak strength can be higher next test day.

TLDR: Bodybuilding flat arch builds muscle better than the powerlifting arch, but the PL arch demonstrates strength better.

[CW47]

Stealing coaches principles.

This would indicate you need to be somewhat careful with peripheral stress volume, but still utilise it in development blocks, while having more licence to push to things like sets of 3,2 and 1 up to @9s regulary.

You'd probably want to drop peripheral very low for pivots/Deloads but maintain some amount central, and you'd definitely want to do similar if you peaked for a test/meet.

Sounds like great advice to me. Thank you!

I'm curious to hear more of your thoughts on development and pivot blocks, because I hear people talk about them but it seems like they mean different things to different people. To you, what are the general purposes of development and pivot blocks? And what type of work do they consist of (more high rep work, more non-specific lifts)?


Looks like you're making very good progress on your bench and squat.
I wish J-Hooks could just disappear while a person is benching, lol. I have a tendency to hit them way too often, and that can definitely throw everything off.

[CW47]

I typically do my Max Effort work on Saturday and Sunday. Did my Max Lower today. I'm in the final week of this cycle. I test my max's on Squat and Bench in the first week of the new cycle, so I typically try to take it easy on the last Max Effort of the previous cycle. Focus is generally on doing partial ranges of motion and/or 3 rep max's instead of 1RM's.

Block Pull - 12 Inch: 445 x 3 [PR]
This was not even a true 3 rep max. The most I can put on my bar is 485 (because that's all the weight I own right now) and I'm pretty sure I could've done that for 3 reps today. But as I said above, I typically try not to push too hard on this final week of the cycle. The 12 inch block makes the range of motion disgustingly short, but it's as low as my adjustable plyo boxes go. It actually hammered my mid/upper back far more than I was expecting.
Though this was 20 pounds more than my previous max on this (and easier than that previous max as well) I really can't take much away from this. I don't believe it's a direct indicator of improving in any of the core lifts. If anything it just shows that my general strength is increasing.

Video shows the block pulls. It also shows a set of Paused Squats which I did for a 5x5 today.

[MyEgoProblem]

Good tracking man. Looks like Squat & Bench have had similar strength curves since 28 Mar. Any reason why?

@Eli, Found this vid about bench ROM: the PL arch or the Bodybuilding arch. He doesn't give a clear answer about which is better universally, only that each serves a particular purpose. The PL arch makes the lifter stronger for utilizing more upper body musculature, for reducing ROM, and for leveraging the body into the strongest position. Those are all necessary for executing maximum strength, in a meet or in a contest or whatever. While the BB flat arch is necessary for building up the musculature needed to move heavy weights. Longer ROM and disadvantaged position build a wider base so that the peak strength can be higher next test day.

TLDR: Bodybuilding flat arch builds muscle better than the powerlifting arch, but the PL arch demonstrates strength better.

Bromleys bench is mediocre at Best and he has no pecs.
Typical strongman.
Frequently missing the mark in his videos since he started shilling his book hard.

[WolfRose7]

Too much qords to quote.

EC between the red and green dot was 2 weeks pivot, which I guess is why we see the strength curves so similar, even though protocols were fairly different for squat and bench.


CW keep in mind my training and principles is biased using emerging strategies 1 repeated weekly microcycle with minimal changes until the pivot, so this does effect my response compared to say, a variable block with different movements each week.

A development block for me is a strength and size focused block where we want to see some sort of trend towards better ERMs as well as work on muscle groups that might need bring up for certain lifts.
It could also be a pure size block, though unlikely for my goals and satisfaction personally.

A pivot is a 1-2 week recovery where we try and drop as much of the but fatigue as possible while losing as little ERM as possible doing so.
How you run a pivot varies wildly depending on how people react to types of stress and time off, some people do great just dropping all main movements and running stuff like single leg and dB only for 1-2 weeks, some still need a dose of main movmenets to maintain strength levels and not fall off a cliff.
For the latter we might do more 1@6 top sets, then maybe some very challenging variation that still goes to a decent rpe but Is a very low % of the main movement. 530 tempo for example.

[CW47]

CW keep in mind my training and principles is biased using emerging strategies 1 repeated weekly microcycle with minimal changes until the pivot, so this does effect my response compared to say, a variable block with different movements each week.

A development block for me is a strength and size focused block where we want to see some sort of trend towards better ERMs as well as work on muscle groups that might need bring up for certain lifts.
It could also be a pure size block, though unlikely for my goals and satisfaction personally.

A pivot is a 1-2 week recovery where we try and drop as much of the but fatigue as possible while losing as little ERM as possible doing so.
How you run a pivot varies wildly depending on how people react to types of stress and time off, some people do great just dropping all main movements and running stuff like single leg and dB only for 1-2 weeks, some still need a dose of main movmenets to maintain strength levels and not fall off a cliff.
For the latter we might do more 1@6 top sets, then maybe some very challenging variation that still goes to a decent rpe but Is a very low % of the main movement. 530 tempo for example.

NIce! I totally get that what you're describing is in the context of your own training, and that's why I want to be sure I understand it at least at a basic level, so I can get some kind of idea how it may translate to my own training method. I really appreciate the explanation, it's very helpful.

That's essentially what I was thinking regarding the Development blocks, but not what I was expecting to hear regarding the Pivot blocks. It brings up another question then. How do Pivot Blocks and Deloads differ? Because what you're describing as a Pivot is pretty similar to how I would approach a Deload.