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  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    I'd vote yes for both.

    Chin rules concern me most, its really easy to do more weight/reps with horrid shoulder protracted form and I don't know how to rule around this.
    conversely good form chins tend to leave the head less over the bar than bad ones, so chin over bar tends to encourage worse than better

    I would 100% be behind a keg toss or keg carry for distance lol, but probably very difficult for most of us to train for, do and film
    They’d have to start from a dead hang with locked elbows and end with chin over the bar. I’d have to get creative with chins since the only place I have to do them is on a lat pulldown station with a seat underneath. So I don’t have the leg room to use a chin/dip belt.

    Maybe I can find a backpack to put plates in. Usually I just do bodyweight pull-ups
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  2. #32
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    I used the term "big 5" loosely. I meant SBD, OHP, and weighted chins. But I'll join a Big 6 that includes row.

    Goals, I'll aim high for 6 months of glory before I crash down on my face Sept. 30.

    Sq 200
    Bp 150
    DL 227
    OHP 85x3 / 90x1
    Row 110x3 / 120x1
    WC 135x3 / 145x1
    Bodyweight <85

    DL is a big reach. Squat and bench are possible, the others might be a stretch but we'll see. Might go for singles or triples on the non-PLs.

    Programming is my own based on the Calgary templates I ran last year. Four 4-week blocks of hypertrophy training, rotating lifts until July, then increasing intensity closer to peak the last week of Sept.


    Let's f*ckin do it!!!

    Wc, weighted chin? Wtf are those numbers
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  3. #33
    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    Obviously total load Inc bw😂👌pretty strong... Explains why they where recommended..

    Chin max form? Only rules you need are dead hang to the top, no kipping.
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  4. #34
    Registered User jademonkey's Avatar
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    I think chin ups are easier to enforce than rows.
    I don't have a belt and the gym staff might be suspicious if I start loading my backpack with plates. Could hold a dumbbell with my feet though.
    Isn't including bodyweight for pull ups like including bodyweight on squats?
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    Pre-COVID..............335 / 295 / 499..............185 lbs
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  5. #35
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jademonkey View Post
    I think chin ups are easier to enforce than rows.
    I don't have a belt and the gym staff might be suspicious if I start loading my backpack with plates. Could hold a dumbbell with my feet though.
    Isn't including bodyweight for pull ups like including bodyweight on squats?
    You can also use a resistance band around the back of your neck hanging from the front for the db.
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Wc, weighted chin? Wtf are those numbers
    Weighted chins. 1rm goals in kilograms, 3rm in a few cases, as I explained in the post.

    Are you new here?
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  7. #37
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jademonkey View Post
    Isn't including bodyweight for pull ups like including bodyweight on squats?
    I thought that was standard to include total weight pulled. It isn't?

    A 60kg guy who chins +20kg pulls 80 kg total, versus an 80 kg guy who chins +20kg pulls 100 total. Are there weight classes for chins?

    As I train, I want to track total weight I pull since bodyweight changes day to day.
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  8. #38
    Registered User jademonkey's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    I thought that was standard to include total weight pulled. It isn't?

    A 60kg guy who chins +20kg pulls 80 kg total, versus an 80 kg guy who chins +20kg pulls 100 total. Are there weight classes for chins?

    As I train, I want to track total weight I pull since bodyweight changes day to day.
    I have no idea what's standard! I don't include bw in squats so I figured it would be normal to not include it for pull ups. But of course pull up total weight << squat total weight.

    I always tracked added weight in my log, because bodyweight changes, and tracking added weight is easier. Haven't done them in a while because they were aggravating my arm, so just been doing bodyweight for the past few months.
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    Pre-COVID..............335 / 295 / 499..............185 lbs
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  9. #39
    CEO 10k/year Ironface's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jademonkey View Post
    I have no idea what's standard! I don't include bw in squats so I figured it would be normal to not include it for pull ups. But of course pull up total weight << squat total weight.

    I always tracked added weight in my log, because bodyweight changes, and tracking added weight is easier. Haven't done them in a while because they were aggravating my arm, so just been doing bodyweight for the past few months.
    The difference is bodyweight works directly against you during chins. Whereas for squats it gives you a leverage advantage.

    This is part of the reason why guys who get fat as hell tend to squat as much or more than what they deadlift.
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  10. #40
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    How about these standards from World Pull-up Organization? Scroll down to 4.5

    https://worldpullup.org/wp/technical...etition-rules/

    They do have weight classes in 10kg increments. To determine winner, they first consider weight added. If there's a tie, then they consider bodyweight.
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  11. #41
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ironface View Post
    Had some q’s

    - Does the bench need to be meet legal (paused)

    - Are deadlifts with straps allowed

    Just in the 1% chance I do feel up to doing this.
    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    I vote paused bench and straps OK.

    Try and you'll end up better than if you hadn't tried. Main mission for everyone here is self-improvement.
    If you can, join in Ironface. From what I can tell, looks like we have similar strength levels with the deadlift and I would enjoy the competition and encouragement from someone else who has a lot of enthusiasm for it. For whatever reason it doesn't seem to get a lot of love on this forum. And if you're not in a place where you can log your best numbers, no one is going to give you a hard time for that.

    I would also vote paused bench and that straps are okay, although as before I will be pulling raw. IMO straps are not necessary at the weight anyone here is going to attempt, but for those who don't want to use reverse grip it's understandable. That said, relying on them takes grip strength out of the equation, which is a major factor of what comprises the deadlift overall, while to the best of my knowledge pulling with a reverse grip doesn't make moving the bar any easier.

    Originally Posted by Ironface View Post
    They’d have to start from a dead hang with locked elbows and end with chin over the bar. I’d have to get creative with chins since the only place I have to do them is on a lat pulldown station with a seat underneath. So I don’t have the leg room to use a chin/dip belt.

    Maybe I can find a backpack to put plates in. Usually I just do bodyweight pull-ups
    As far as weighted chins vs rows, do you guys want to do both? Chasing a new max on three major compound pulls might be too much unspecialized back volume and start to cause each individually to suffer, but with the right balance maybe not. My money might be on the weighted chins, if we choose, since a row is going to have more overlap with deads. Assuming we do both, my goals are:

    Bench: 325
    Squat: 405
    Deadlit: 505
    OHP: 205
    Row: 265
    WC: 80 lbs added
    BW<240

    Looks like the greatest leap is going to be the squat. The deadlift has my focus but that my be closer or farther than it seems, just can't tell right now. Aiming for modest improvement on the presses but they're not the highest priority. They've had an undue focus for a while now and it's time to shore up weaknesses, particularly the legs. Not sure if the road from 335 to 405 on the squat, moving through a lot of novice territory on the way, will be more arduous than moving through the end of the 400s on DL.

    A couple questions/comments of my own:

    - Timing: if we officially start Monday, April 5 through Monday, October 4, that will give us an even 26 weeks, which is exactly half a year. A nice, clean and sizeable unit of time to apply a lot of concerted, long-term effort and realistically make a lot of progress. I'd vouch for this. Thoughts?

    - Logging: I think we should all keep track of the same, definite units and rep schemes. Obviously 1RMs, but what about also each of us logging a 5x5, max reps @ weight, etc.? Last time it was a little all over the board and if we dial in on specific number slots, it will keep things more organized and probably better for all of our progressions. Also, since strength levels aren't uniform across rep ranges and can improve/atrophy along it just as it can between exercises, keeping a holistic focus here would be better for our overall performance.

    - Uploads: For each of these agreed-upon number slots, I think an upload should be necessary and if form is wonky, take a vote on if it qualifies, and if it's clearly bad, it doesn't count. Outside of that (for just posting intervals of progress or regular workouts along the way), I'd actually prefer not uploading everything. I don't have my own equipment and workout in a gym which is sometimes crowded. It's a little pretentious and cumbersome to everyone else to film everything. That being the case, however, no officially claiming a new deadlift 5x5 if I didn't film it.

    - Scoring: to what extent do you all want to make this actually competitive, rather than just a mutual log for our own self improvement? I actually like the idea of a friendly competition, myself. Scoring takes variables into account and it makes it both more fun and incentivizes harder work. To that end I think one of us should (perhaps monthly) post a scoreboard, taking note of all marginal changes.

    - People joining later? - Since this is a fairly long-term deal, some people might want to jump in later. That's just fine with me as the ground covered for your own goals is self-defined whereas the end results are the end results, either way. I'd say nothing is finalized until the end and people can jump in whenever.
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  12. #42
    Registered User jademonkey's Avatar
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    testing

    F***ing "access denied"

    Looks like it didn't like the quote. Posted now.
    April 2021.................16 week cut.................168 lbs
    2020......................375 / 285 / 505..............186 lbs
    Pre-COVID..............335 / 295 / 499..............185 lbs
    July 1, 2019................9 week cut.................164 lbs
    Late April 2019.........285 / 275 / 440.............178 lbs
    Oct, 2018..............175x6 / 145x6 / 275x5......163 lbs
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  13. #43
    Registered User jademonkey's Avatar
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    I'm a fan of raw pulls without straps, but last time I needed grips because I dislocated a finger and grip strength was shot. It's getting stronger and I'll likely pull without straps, but I don't see a problem with allowing them.

    I'm with you an 3 pulls being a bit much - I'd probably not focus on rows (too much variability in weight based on how much momentum is used). Weighted chin ups I like. Haven't done in a while and it would be good to add them back in.

    I also workout in a gym and don't like videoing lifts often.

    I don't have a good gage for goals, as it's been sooo long since I've bulked and will probably be doing a slow bulk for the last few months. But I would love a 315 bench and 405 squat. 200 is a nice round number for press. +100 is a nice round number for weighted chin up. Deadlift - Idk. Maybe 545? (5 plates + 25s).

    Will keep cutting to ~169, then probably be up to 175+ again by the end.
    April 2021.................16 week cut.................168 lbs
    2020......................375 / 285 / 505..............186 lbs
    Pre-COVID..............335 / 295 / 499..............185 lbs
    July 1, 2019................9 week cut.................164 lbs
    Late April 2019.........285 / 275 / 440.............178 lbs
    Oct, 2018..............175x6 / 145x6 / 275x5......163 lbs
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  14. #44
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    A couple questions/comments of my own:

    - Timing: if we officially start Monday, April 5 through Monday, October 4, that will give us an even 26 weeks, which is exactly half a year. A nice, clean and sizeable unit of time to apply a lot of concerted, long-term effort and realistically make a lot of progress. I'd vouch for this. Thoughts?

    - Logging: I think we should all keep track of the same, definite units and rep schemes. Obviously 1RMs, but what about also each of us logging a 5x5, max reps @ weight, etc.? Last time it was a little all over the board and if we dial in on specific number slots, it will keep things more organized and probably better for all of our progressions. Also, since strength levels aren't uniform across rep ranges and can improve/atrophy along it just as it can between exercises, keeping a holistic focus here would be better for our overall performance.

    - Uploads: For each of these agreed-upon number slots, I think an upload should be necessary and if form is wonky, take a vote on if it qualifies, and if it's clearly bad, it doesn't count. Outside of that (for just posting intervals of progress or regular workouts along the way), I'd actually prefer not uploading everything. I don't have my own equipment and workout in a gym which is sometimes crowded. It's a little pretentious and cumbersome to everyone else to film everything. That being the case, however, no officially claiming a new deadlift 5x5 if I didn't film it.

    - Scoring: to what extent do you all want to make this actually competitive, rather than just a mutual log for our own self improvement? I actually like the idea of a friendly competition, myself. Scoring takes variables into account and it makes it both more fun and incentivizes harder work. To that end I think one of us should (perhaps monthly) post a scoreboard, taking note of all marginal changes.

    - People joining later? - Since this is a fairly long-term deal, some people might want to jump in later. That's just fine with me as the ground covered for your own goals is self-defined whereas the end results are the end results, either way. I'd say nothing is finalized until the end and people can jump in whenever.
    I've already started.

    I'm not a fan of doing the same programming for everyone. IMO it's more productive and more fun to do what works for yourself, plus you see more variety of programming strategies and learn more from seeing others' styles. That said, there could be periodic check-ins with the same standards.

    Yeah, only need to upload the most important lifts, or when you want to. For final scoring and check-ins, vids are necessary.

    Scoring could have a 1-10 rating system if there's any question. Anyone with a trustworthy presence on this forum could rate the lift (?). Rating of 10, the lifter claims 100% of weight lifted. Rating of 8.5, he claims 85%. Etc. Good or bad idea?

    I guess there will be 1 winner for the highest score? What about smaller classifications? Best squat? Best big 3? Best Row? Best improved? Etc.

    A scoreboard or leaderboard is a good idea if we can standardize it. We could rotate that task monthly.

    I'm fine with people joining later, unless it's within the last 4 weeks and/or from a dodgy poster. How to judge "dodgy" is open to question. (Red rep, less than 50 posts, etc.)

    We would need to agree on the rules for each lift. I'm good with doing all 6, though of course as training goes on I'll prioritize the lifts that are most important to me, and take the loss on the others. Standards for SBD are obvious (comp. standards). Row might be the most problematic (back angle? how much hitching? etc.) Strict Pendlay is boss, but requires much lighter weight and stricter standards.
    2020 maxes
    Squat 185
    Bench 137
    DL 205
    bw 88.5 age 43

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  15. #45
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
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    Pending a headcount and possibly a separate thread for this, officially, here is a simple, preliminary workout for me of just deadlifting since improving that is priority one.

    Conventional Deadlift:
    1 x 1 at 455
    9 x 1 at 405

    Notes:

    Read a hefty chunk of this article today (https://www.strongerbyscience.com/how-to-deadlift/). Thank you to Suffolk Punch for making me aware of this site. I didn't have enough time to read the whole thing today, but it in particular gave an excellent overview of the specific physics involved, muscular anatomy, and how they combine mechanically in the deadlift itself. Couple of interesting tips I hadn't thought of before (try to jump as high as you can to get an idea of your ideal natural foot width, don't hold the bar deep in your hand or the bar will simply slide down to the rim of your callouses anyway, et al.)

    - Bracing still does not feel automatic, and were I not being careful to keep good form, I would approach the bar with less tension and tightness than I ought to. In particular, breathing "into the stomach" so to speak, feels awkward and will take some practice to gain familiarity.

    - This was my first time pulling more than 405 for months and I can feel the steepness of the difficulty curve. For the singles at four plates, my aim was to choose something relatively heavy (four plates being @ RPE 7 or 8 for me when I am feeling strong) and hone in on the form. In this regard I think I hit the mark. Didn't want to bring my phone in and film but asked an experienced lifter to keep an eye on my form, and he said it looked great, and that my back was as straight as an arrow. Also got my hips appropriately low from the start by touching my shins to the bar before pulling the slack out of it. Not incredibly hard but I could palpably feel the way the load was shifted more to the hamstrings and glutes away from the lumbar spine.

    Was very tempted to bench or OHP today but that wouldn't leave me with a profitable workout tomorrow, and in the time I was thinking about it someone else took each spot respectively.
    Bench: 315
    Squat: 335
    Deadlift: 475

    "... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
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  16. #46
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    I MAY post some of my 'comeback' lowerbody stuff when gym is open/I'm back at work (same place)

    I Haven't actually "trained" legs this year so will be super detrained.. Don't expect big numbers, I'll be in a big defecit and I don't train Limit sets and seeing the %/@ of them, you wouldnt guess what my max actually is.

    Have I been a lazy leg skipper? Or is it that I refuse to deadlift in my house cos floorboards and I'm not paying to fix up a rental. It's both 😏
    And I don't enjoy squatting enough for its own sake when I'm not deadlifting too.
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  17. #47
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    Workout 2...

    Same mentality. Sub-maximal singles to maintain pressing strength above 275. All were about @ RPE 7 or 8; form felt completely controlled and the bar moved smoothly on each rep.

    Flat Bench:
    10 x 1 at 285
    Bench: 315
    Squat: 335
    Deadlift: 475

    "... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
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  18. #48
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    RTS dev block week 7/8
    Day 3 of 4.

    Pin squat 110 x 2, 5 x 95 x 3.
    Pin Bench 90 x 3, 5 x 90 x 2
    Myo Larsen 72 x 14, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4


    Edit

    4 of 4
    pause deadlift 137.5 x 2, 4 x 120 x 3
    TnG Bench 110 x 1, 6 x 85 x 4
    snatch grip rdl 70, 80, 85, 85 x 10
    Last edited by WolfRose7; 04-01-2021 at 11:55 AM.
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  19. #49
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    So....
    Using this thread or starting a fresh one for the real thing?

    I'm not doing ohp or chins cos my shoulder joint just can't take em.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CNDn34Ch...d=xiss86bn21yk

    Today. Modified kang squats with 40kg.. gotta start back somewhere innit
    Last edited by MyEgoProblem; 03-30-2021 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Using my burner insta for footage
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  20. #50
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    ^^ I say we just use this one, since there's no advantage to moving elsewhere. And nice, never heard of those!
    Bench: 315
    Squat: 335
    Deadlift: 475

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  21. #51
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    Workout 3.

    Lackluster day; for the first time in probably over a year, I actually felt drowsy in the gym. Not sure exactly what was going on but days like that happen. Just have to push through and keep going.

    A.S. (alternating sets)
    Bent-Over Row
    5 x 5 at 205
    Flat Bench
    3 x 5 at 265, 2 x 5 at 245

    (^^ Was going for a solid 5 x 5 with 265 but hit RPE 10 on the last rep of the third set and decided to go down.)

    A.S.
    Incline Bench
    1 x 8 at 185, 1 x 7 at 185 (hit RPE 10 on rep 7 and stopped, originally going for 8)
    Lat Pulldown
    2 x 8 at 230

    Lat Pulldown
    2 x 8 at 190

    A.S.
    Barbell Curl
    4 x 8 at 95
    Standing OHP
    4 x 8 at 95
    Bench: 315
    Squat: 335
    Deadlift: 475

    "... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
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  22. #52
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    Final Day 1 of the dev block

    C' Squat - 110x4 @6, 115x4@7, 120x4@8, 102.5x5 for 4 sets
    C' Bench - 107.5x1@7.5, 112.5x1 @9, 85x4 for 8 sets
    Myo Cg Bench - 65x18@9, 4,4,4,4,4
    Lever Row - 30x10,10,10

    Spoiler!
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  23. #53
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    ^^ Nice numbers Wolf. Are you focusing on something in particular?

    Today was a pretty good day for me. Squats are looking better and I decided to use a higher bar hold to keep my back more upright, which worked. Right in the crevice between the traps and the scapula felt natural and kept the load more on the quads. The last rep of each set was probably @8 which is significantly better than last time I did a 5x5 at this weight. This progress is exciting and I look forward to uploading my next squat workout for a form critique.

    Squat:
    5x5 at 275

    A.S.
    Flat Bench
    4 x 8 at 225
    Lat Pulldown
    4 x 8 at 210

    Deadlift
    1 x 8 at 295 (would have done more but I ran out of time because I had scheduled to call someone)
    Bench: 315
    Squat: 335
    Deadlift: 475

    "... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
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  24. #54
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    I'm impressed at your recovery if you. Managed to maintain @8 for 5 straight sets.

    Shame about deads but stuff happens

    Not focused on much other than what coach tells me too, which is quad, glute, chest mass, much better breathing and bracing, more patience off the floor on deads, more leg drive on bench.

    The usual haha
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    I'm impressed at your recovery if you. Managed to maintain @8 for 5 straight sets.

    Shame about deads but stuff happens

    Not focused on much other than what coach tells me too, which is quad, glute, chest mass, much better breathing and bracing, more patience off the floor on deads, more leg drive on bench.

    The usual haha
    Yeah I don't know what happened the other day... I hadn't had very much caffeine and was feeling some withdrawal going into the gym, and had also eaten immediately before. Ultimately I did what I did and I can't put it off on something else, though. Felt much stronger today.

    What do you mean by patience off the floor? Like you spend too much strength breaking the floor and it stifles your lockout?
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  26. #56
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Yeah I don't know what happened the other day... I hadn't had very much caffeine and was feeling some withdrawal going into the gym, and had also eaten immediately before. Ultimately I did what I did and I can't put it off on something else, though. Felt much stronger today.

    What do you mean by patience off the floor? Like you spend too much strength breaking the floor and it stifles your lockout?
    I've tended to somewhat "grip n rip" and not take enough slack out of the bar with position and upper back before the push off the floor
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    Relatively decent workout today. Pulls did lag a little, however:

    A.S.
    Pull up 8, 8, 7.5, 6, 5 at bodyweight
    Flat Bench:
    5 x 8 at 225

    A.S.
    Seated cable row
    1 x 10 at 210 (began to hinge slightly at the end, so went down to preserve form)
    3 x 8 at 190
    Incline DB Press
    4 x 8 w/ 75s

    A.S.
    DB Shrugs
    3 x 12 w/ 100s
    Standing OHP
    1 x 10, 2 x 8, 1 x 12 at 85
    Bench: 315
    Squat: 335
    Deadlift: 475

    "... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
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  28. #58
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    https://www.instagram.com/p/CNUqbkdh...=11mgwte2oqjfn

    Some stuff from this week I guess.. Not seeing much footage in here? Vids r more fun.

    Essentially just 'speed work" for force production and minimal fatigue. Probably more recover work tbh.

    Ended up close to hundo for explosive trips on tshirt bench. (no contact)
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  29. #59
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    Here's a fun motivational vid to get the test flowing. Look very closely you'll see a drum set

    2020 maxes
    Squat 185
    Bench 137
    DL 205
    bw 88.5 age 43

    Workout Journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175647011&p=1630928323&viewfull=1#post1630928323
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  30. #60
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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    Here's a fun motivational vid to get the test flowing. Look very closely you'll see a drum set

    I'd have to stop training legs and glutes for about 3 years or I'd break that (drum kit) in half hitting it....

    Skills

    /on spread

    I don't usually do the whole motivation thing.. The whole death metal hype is too exhausting outside of meet day or ct fletcher or bodybuilders style motivation stuff is not for me.. At all

    Normally this kinda thing...



    .. Is my lifting jam. Currently deadlifting to that.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CNVAlI2n...=1b8yelhglqoes

    And steel panther too apparently.

    Almost pooping so didn't lock any reps today.
    Only 170 library pulls tho, trying to toughen thumbs up.
    First tugs since mid Dec.
    Last edited by MyEgoProblem; 04-06-2021 at 08:25 AM. Reason: Forgot how to embed vid for a min there ������
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