Calling anyone interested in a friendly strength competition for this spring/summer

[SaviorSelfJT]

@Savior, that squat was awesome. I was expecting you to stop parallel, but you went as low as it appears was anatomically possible. At that weight, too, that's truly humbling and impressive. And yeah, I really would like to see Ego actually try. I believe him on his former stats being the best in this thread, which would make this a lot more fun. As long as it's not a legitimate injury risk thing, in all seriousness I'd like to see this "any day of the week" card actually in play. At that level of strength you should be competitive here without having to try that hard.

Thanks man, but you'll soon see that I'm basically a one trick pony, pretty good at squats but not much else lol

What were his lifts like?

Your next squat day has 10x3, as you know. Good opportunity to experiment with different tech changes. Try one stance for a few sets, different stance for a few, so on. Wider stance you'll get a bit more adductors.

Important thing for volume days is just getting in the work. Intensity days are where tech is more important. Don't overthink it.

+1, you might also be initially weaker as soon as you try a slightly wider stance, if your adductors aren't as strong relatively speaking. So you might have to lower weight/reps for a couple weeks before anything gets better, if the wider stance even helps at all

Very deep and admirable squat.
Vids on Youtube are a bit smoother if you'd want to post there instead.

Thanks, I'd normally use youtube but streamable seems a bit more "private", idk

[ECGordyn]

you might also be initially weaker as soon as you try a slightly wider stance, if your adductors aren't as strong relatively speaking. So you might have to lower weight/reps for a couple weeks before anything gets better, if the wider stance even helps at all

Thanks, I'd normally use youtube but streamable seems a bit more "private", idk

Good point above.

You can set it to unlisted when you upload. Only someone with the link can see the vid.

[SaviorSelfJT]

It's what sucks about trying new form/things once your at a decent level of strength, because you will be initially weaker then you have to work your way back up to see if it helped. It makes it really "expensive" to find an optimal technique cause you have to stick with each variation for a while to see if it works

I certainly went through this with my deadlift. I tried wide stance, narrow stance, medium stance, feet angled out, feet angled in, hips high, hips low, bar over the balls of my feet, with straps, without straps etc
And nothing helped, I got so frustrated I wanted to quit deadlifting altogether cause it felt hopeless
Then I had the idea that maybe my hamstrings and maybe lower back are underdeveloped because they don't get enough work from squats, so I started to do good mornings and finally my deadlift seems to be moving
Wasted so much time in hindsight

[jademonkey]

Logging a workout here:

Presses-
up to 185x1
then 155x14 (failed 15)
Was considering trying 205 for 2 or 3 reps, but 185 felt heavy enough that it would have been a waste. Dropped weight and did reps
VID: https://streamable.com/a320hb


Deadlift-
up to 435x4
(last week I did 435x3, then before that 425x5 then before that 425x3)
(my general scheme here is start with 3 reps, then next week do another rep, after I get 5 reps, +10 more pounds and go back to 3 reps)
VID: https://streamable.com/uvpypk

RDL-
up to 315x20 (with straps)
mother of all hamstring pumps. And 5-10 minutes after this I was sweating bullets
not going all the way to the floor, just a bit past knees
VID: https://streamable.com/q0f6av

What's the trick to feeling RDL in hamstrings??
I tried it for soooo long, even single leg, and always felt fatigue in my lower back before hamstrings.
I recently did a few months of cable pull throughs and feel it in my hamstrings, but I've outgrown the weight stack and don't feel like doing more than 15 rep sets.

A couple years ago I tries back extensions for a while because I thought lower back may be a weak point in deads. I did get good deadlift gains, but also still feel it most in my lower back. So wondering if it was weak lower back or if I just still don't know how to activate hamstrings properly in deadlifts, or even maybe a stronger lower back that wants to take over.

[EliKoehn]

Random comment, but isn't it funny how in the sticky thread videos for the squat, they're like "We're going to go over squat technique, so we just pulled some guy off the street with basically no training" and then he just squats 405 after warming up like it's nothing... lol

[jademonkey]

Heavy squat, light bench today.

Squat:
335x1 / 340x1 / 345x1 / 340x1 / 335x1 / 305x3 / 285x5

Top single (apologize for the random water bottle in the way lol):


Bench (all reps paused and with as much speed as possible):
165x10 / 165x10 / 175x10

Y'all telling me to add weight on bench, but man that's hard with pauses and fast concentrics.

[WolfRose7]

Heavy squat, light bench today.

Squat:
335x1 / 340x1 / 345x1 / 340x1 / 335x1 / 305x3 / 285x5

Top single (apologize for the random water bottle in the way lol):


Bench (all reps paused and with as much speed as possible):
165x10 / 165x10 / 175x10

Y'all telling me to add weight on bench, but man that's hard with pauses and fast concentrics.

Haven't done the exact conversions but our squats must be fairly close.
Though I'm a lot fatter xD

[SaviorSelfJT]

What's the trick to feeling RDL in hamstrings??
I tried it for soooo long, even single leg, and always felt fatigue in my lower back before hamstrings.
I recently did a few months of cable pull throughs and feel it in my hamstrings, but I've outgrown the weight stack and don't feel like doing more than 15 rep sets.

A couple years ago I tries back extensions for a while because I thought lower back may be a weak point in deads. I did get good deadlift gains, but also still feel it most in my lower back. So wondering if it was weak lower back or if I just still don't know how to activate hamstrings properly in deadlifts, or even maybe a stronger lower back that wants to take over.

I think for me the trick is to have under-developed hamstrings
As they get stronger maybe I'll feel them less

Random comment, but isn't it funny how in the sticky thread videos for the squat, they're like "We're going to go over squat technique, so we just pulled some guy off the street with basically no training" and then he just squats 405 after warming up like it's nothing... lol

Yeah I've tried to show new lifters how to squat before and 9/10 its just hopeless at first
And different people have different anatomies. Some people have to have a good morning looking squat for example
And so much advice and training material is based off of geared lifters and people have no idea. Like the common advice that shins should be vertical when you squat

[jademonkey]

I think for me the trick is to have under-developed hamstrings
As they get stronger maybe I'll feel them less



Yeah I've tried to show new lifters how to squat before and 9/10 its just hopeless at first
And different people have different anatomies. Some people have to have a good morning looking squat for example
And so much advice and training material is based off of geared lifters and people have no idea. Like the common advice that shins should be vertical when you squat

I don't even understand how people think this. It doesn't take a physicist to intuitively understand basic mechanics, does it? Like, if shins are vertical, center of gravity is gonna be behind the feet unless you can fold forward like a gymnast.

[EliKoehn]

I don't even understand how people think this. It doesn't take a physicist to intuitively understand basic mechanics, does it? Like, if shins are vertical, center of gravity is gonna be behind the feet unless you can fold forward like a gymnast.

Which is what some people like me are already predisposed towards and trying to correct, already.

[EliKoehn]

Nice benching @Wolf & EC. Both looked smooth and easy.

Good solid workout Eli. You've been stringing together some really well rounded sessions that I'm sure are going to pay off for you.


I did my Max Effort Lower workout today:
Sumo Deadlift: 355 pounds x 1 rep [PR]
Block Pull - 3 inch: 310 pounds - 5 sets x 5 reps
Cable Row: 100 pounds - 3 sets x 10 reps
Face Pull: Mini Band - 3 sets x 20 reps

Good solid back work today. I'm pumped about the Sumo PR. I've really not been doing sumo at all, and this 10 pound PR went up pretty easily. Was a bit ugly though. Balance was off and struggled more with the lockout than off the floor, which is not something I've experienced with this lift before. I actually failed the first attempt because grip gave out 2/3 of the way up (double overhand). Strapped up for the second attempt because mixed grip reps felt awkward today. Would've probably made an attempt with more weight if I had made 355 on the first attempt. I'm really encouraged by the PR though. My conventional and Sumo seem to be progressing in basically equal proportion for me, so this bodes well for my conventional deadlift as well.

Somehow I missed this earlier, my bad! Thank you - it's coming along quite well and this program is a thrilling challenge so far. I appreciate EC recommending it specifically because so far it looks like exactly what I was needing: a squat-dominant, relatively short bridge to retesting all maxes and an introduction to more exacting programming (as opposed to just writing out what I felt like on a napkin or piece of paper and taking it with me to the gym).

Good work, yourself. Curious to see how those sumos feel compared to conventional, over time. I've never seriously done them as they feel extremely awkward to me, but those are mutually reinforcing factors, of course.

@JadeMonkey, can you not deliberately "fire" your hamstrings individually even while just sitting? If you can do this, couldn't you simply hold the tension as you set up?

[jademonkey]

@JadeMonkey, can you not deliberately "fire" your hamstrings individually even while just sitting? If you can do this, couldn't you simply hold the tension as you set up?

I never realized hamstrings have a hip extension function until I started lifting a couple years ago. I can fire the leg curl function no problem. But I still rarely feel them in hip extension.

[MyEgoProblem]

Yeah I've tried to show new lifters how to squat before and 9/10 its just hopeless at first
And different people have different anatomies. Some people have to have a good morning looking squat for example
And so much advice and training material is based off of geared lifters and people have no idea. Like the common advice that shins should be vertical when you squat

I don't even understand how people think this. It doesn't take a physicist to intuitively understand basic mechanics, does it? Like, if shins are vertical, center of gravity is gonna be behind the feet unless you can fold forward like a gymnast.

Which is what some people like me are already predisposed towards and trying to correct, already.

Vertical shins is an EXCELLENT cue for some people...

The problem come from misaplication of the cue to the wrong people in the wrong situations

(yes, I'm taking raw here too)

[MyEgoProblem]

I never realized hamstrings have a hip extension function until I started lifting a couple years ago. I can fire the leg curl function no problem. But I still rarely feel them in hip extension.

Feeling the hammies (in the rdl or gm especially) is going to come from pelvis positioning and bracing.

Gotta make sure it doesn't roll under (like a butt wink in a squat) and take the tension straight to your glutes and stretch your errectors

Ideally pretty neutral for best efficiency but you can hard arch like an insta thot too.. Will be less weight but easier and earlier ham stretch reflex

[EliKoehn]

C6W Week 2, Thursday

Squat:
295 x MR/10 - achieved 10 @9 with slightly worse form deterioration in final reps as last time
10 x 3 at 285 with 60-90 second* rest intervals

Deficit Deadlift:
3 x 8 at 315

A.S.
Optional Exercise 1 (leg raise)
2 x 12 with no added weight

Optional Exercise 2 (Decline Sit-Ups)
1 x 12, 1 x 6**

No need to read below as it's mostly for my own logging, but feel free:

Squats were once again not as formidable as I was anticipating and someone experienced kindly agreed to check my depth, which ended up passing the mark. These felt a little more rough than Monday's (which admittedly I thought were going to look worse) and I felt a little more back extension going on at reps 9 and 10. But I did get it and I am glad I made it through this week's squatting hitting the full 10 reps with passing marks! Fatigue finally caught up with me and I was glad yesterday was a rest day - felt groggy and unfocused throughout the day yesterday and this morning but knew it was due to recovery. Some tasty shrimp lo mein for lunch was a nice pick me up and seemed to fuel me through this one nicely. Deadlifts ironically were feeling even easier than last time, despite how taxing the squats were.

Experimented with a few form variations on the back-off sets. Wider and lower is easier by a large margin, but it exacerbates my problem of driving the bar with my back and seems to blur some of the distinction between the squat and the deadlift, which I'd rather avoid. Perhaps I'll try high bar and wide, as that might be a better compromise.

*There was a kid shuffling plates around right behind me and walking very close. I am confident these rest intervals didn't go past this range but I waited slightly more than a minute on some of them, as I would wait for the traffic to stop around me. I shouldn't rant, but whenever I choose the left rack, somebody does 10-pound face pulls ending 2 inches away from the bar, and when I choose the right one, they shop for plates off the rack walking right next to you when the same ones are available in front of them or to their left. Easy to forget we all have a right to the equipment as paying members. I am considering switching to a less commercial gym, as the predominant demographic here is obnoxiously curling high-schoolers (which in all fairness completely applied to me) and older people just trying to stay in shape. Gold's is offering memberships for pretty cheap so I'm thinking about that.

** Was attempting alternating sets of 3 x 12 for both of these, but I honestly got close to failure on that second set of sit-ups and thought it best to call it there, since it's an optional exercise and the core will be in use tomorrow.

[SaviorSelfJT]

^^ Do you have a basement or a garage to put a rack? I think its finally starting to get easy to buy equipment if you're interested

Curious if any of you use caffeine or other pre workout stimulants before lifting

I doubt it helps with workout performance, but seems to get me in the mood to go lift

[EliKoehn]

^^ Do you have a basement or a garage to put a rack? I think its finally starting to get easy to buy equipment if you're interested

Curious if any of you use caffeine or other pre workout stimulants before lifting

I doubt it helps with workout performance, but seems to get me in the mood to go lift

I live in an (admittedly fairly nice) apartment and don't have space for my own power rack, even though I could afford one if that's what I wanted to devote my superfluous money on. I have a pretty nice balcony but no garage. A goal of mine in ~5 years is to be a homeowner with a nice rack (wife and gym equipment ).

Sadly I'm kind of a crackhead throughout the day with caffeine so I don't often deliberately take pre-workout (although I did on Monday because I knew it would be hard) but for those who don't drink several cups of coffee a day I bet it notably helps.

[DoMoreWeighLess]

^^ Do you have a basement or a garage to put a rack? I think its finally starting to get easy to buy equipment if you're interested

Curious if any of you use caffeine or other pre workout stimulants before lifting

I doubt it helps with workout performance, but seems to get me in the mood to go lift

Preworkout helps pn days you feel like ****. Nothing wrong as long as you don't get addicted and start eating scoops lol. It's got a good amount of caffeine. I try to still workout off my own energy levels for now.

I guess I'll post some lifts. Im curious how much strength I'll be able to gain this summer while losing weight.

*Music may be loud phone was near the speakers*

First week back squatting. 4 sets 5 @ 305 paused. CNS is pretty fried so I only got 4 sets before calling it for the day. Still trying to get comfortable sinking into position. Will put an emphasis on post workout hip/ankle stretches when school lets out.



Bench was a bit better. 55533 sets. Definitely need to work on my explosion out of the bottom.



I guess if I'm joining I should have goals....

August: 355 Bench, 415 Squat, 455 Deadlift

These would match my college best lifts that I can remember. With good discipline I might hit a few. Eli has suggested upping my calories, so I will be making a meal plan for that here soon.

[ECGordyn]

Preworkout helps pn days you feel like ****. Nothing wrong as long as you don't get addicted and start eating scoops lol. It's got a good amount of caffeine. I try to still workout off my own energy levels for now.

I guess I'll post some lifts. Im curious how much strength I'll be able to gain this summer.

*Music may be loud phone was near the speakers*

First week back squatting. 4 sets 5 @ 305 paused. CNS is pretty fried so I only got 4 sets before calling it for the day. Still trying to get comfortable sinking into position. Will put an emphasis on post workout hip/ankle stretches when school lets out.



Bench was a bit better. 55533 sets. Definitely need to work on my explosion out of the bottom.



I guess if I'm joining I should have goals....

August: 355 Bench, 415 Squat, 455 Deadlift

These would match my college best lifts that I can remember. With good discipline I might hit a few

Very nice and smooth squats man, bench too.

[DoMoreWeighLess]

Very nice and smooth squats man, bench too.

Thanks man. I am afraid I need to add a lot more muscle to keep up with my cns. It's definitely odd coming back to working out vs getting started. Strength is better than expected, but I don't always feel comfortable with form. I assume it will get better with just a lot of time and micromanaging.

Have any of you guys been able to maintain strength while cutting? Just wondering if you have any tips.

[SaviorSelfJT]

If you're only just getting back into it, and can do 4x5 @305 paused, you're going to be squatting boulders in a couple years if you can keep up the training (srs)

Pretty sure what most think of as cns burnout is just stress hormones. I used to read about cns fatigue/burnout all the time but apparently your cns is fully recovered in a second after a lift


If you're feeling burnt out, try reducing stress in other places in your life

[CW47]

Agreed - the lifts look great @DoMoreWeighLess. Glad you're joining in with us.


Did my Max Upper day today. I actually started with the Incline bench yesterday, worked up to within 5 pounds of my PR, had to step away to take care of the baby, and next thing I knew it was 2 hours later and I had to get ready to go to bed, lmao. Anyway, I started over today and got the whole workout in.

Incline Bench Press - 45 Degree: 155 pounds x 1 [PR]
Another 5 pound PR. Form is improving gradually on this lift. Still not great, but improving. I did a little better at controlling the weight at the bottom. Need to continue working on it, but I'll take the PR.

Seated Overhead Press: 85 pounds - 5 sets x 5 reps
Did these without any back support, and oh my did that make a big difference. I did 85 pounds last week as well. It felt about 15 pounds heavier this week without the back support. I'm definitely going to continue doing it this way. It's much closer to a true Overhead Press (but harder since you don't have your legs to help create momentum off the bottom and keep the weight balanced throughout the lift). It requires me to use more of the stabilizer muscles in my back and core, which will have better carry over to the other lifts I'm doing.

Also did some Bicep and Tricep work with Mini Bands.

Video shows the Incline Bench Press PR (you'll have to excuse the clothing - didn't have time to change out of my work clothes because I only had about 15 minutes to fit this exercise in before I had to leave home again):

[ECGordyn]

Pretty sure what most think of as cns burnout is just stress hormones. I used to read about cns fatigue/burnout all the time but apparently your cns is fully recovered in a second after a lift


If you're feeling burnt out, try reducing stress in other places in your life

Agree. DoMore, you're cutting too, right? Bet it's just general fatigue from the deficit.

[WolfRose7]

Thanks man. I am afraid I need to add a lot more muscle to keep up with my cns. It's definitely odd coming back to working out vs getting started. Strength is better than expected, but I don't always feel comfortable with form. I assume it will get better with just a lot of time and micromanaging.

Have any of you guys been able to maintain strength while cutting? Just wondering if you have any tips.

Hit all time bench PR cutting haha.
I'd generally just say don't preconditioning yourself to doing less, and only cut volume or intensity if needed and slowly.
Most people just seem to decide they can't do as much work without trying.

[DoMoreWeighLess]

You guys are probably right. It's getting more hectic at work here, and I haven't been sleeping as much as I'd like. Could be getting to me.

You guys are nuts on bench. How do you lift without spotters?!? I always feel like it screws my positioning

Also, I'm working out in a home gym currently, so I don't have a pulldown machine like I'm used to. What exercises would best hit my lats? Eventually I want to use pullups, but I'm not quite there yet. Thanks again.

[EliKoehn]

^^ Very nice lifts! I'd be surprised if you couldn't pull 455 next week if you wanted to, given your squat.

And on bench, the setup at my gym has safeties halfway up the RoM. If I'm not going heavy, it's easy to gauge RPE 9 and then at least get the bar to the middle pins if the next rep is a failure. I did fail one time without a spot but that time I set up with a power rack and the pins were fairly high up. Just had to roll the bar down to my waist and kind of row it down.

[DoMoreWeighLess]

^^ Very nice lifts! I'd be surprised if you couldn't pull 455 next week if you wanted to, given your squat.

And on bench, the setup at my gym has safeties halfway up the RoM. If I'm not going heavy, it's easy to gauge RPE 9 and then at least get the bar to the middle pins if the next rep is a failure. I did fail one time without a spot but that time I set up with a power rack and the pins were fairly high up. Just had to roll the bar down to my waist and kind of row it down.

Oh yea makes sense if you have a good setup. I'm always worried about dropping on my neck lol.

[CW47]

Oh yea makes sense if you have a good setup. I'm always worried about dropping on my neck lol.

Just do this

[jademonkey]

Deadlift day. Felt tired. Maybe due to the 2nd vaccine dose on Wednesday?

Sumo (445x1)x2 - form a bit off at lockout, backed off to (425x1)x3 form felt good, a bit tough. Just right.
Backed off 405x3 and 405x2 (grip slipping, forgot grips).
Deficit 345x5. I'm liking deficit, might add a couple more sets of them next week.

Pin press, close grip cable rows, face pulls, and cross body hammer curls.

Did hammer curls across the body for the first time in Arizona with my brother. SOOO much weaker in that position! He increased weight and grabbed the 50s, I dropped down to 25s lol. I don't know what they are hitting that makes them so much harder, but may as well give em a try for a while. Feel it more on the outer part near the elbow.

[EliKoehn]

Hammers were harder than supinated for me at first and now they're easier, even though I curl supinated with the bar most often.

I'm guessing it's that your brachial radialis was already gassed from the deadlifting, as hammers hit that pretty hard as well.

EDIT: Ah, the curls were from a different time.