This is something I've both heard from a few places but also experienced myself, anecdotally. All else being equal, there seems to be among lifters a close correlation between one's bodyweight and their pressing strength, in particular. The past few months, I've weighed about 10-15 pounds less than about the same span of time at the end of 2020, and my presses have notably gone down somewhat. Merely eating at a deficit might have plenty to do with this, although my other lifts have not suffered the same way.
Benches are of course the least callisthenic of the Big 3, so a lessening of bodyweight is in some measure effectively a reduction of the work on the squat and deadlift, but not for the bench, where aside from your arms everything you're lifting is on the bar. But if you're not already lean (and I'm not) and cutting right while training appropriately, you shouldn't be losing much if any actual muscle, so why does losing weight seem to drop people's bench numbers so consistently?
Interestingly, this trend seems to have less to do with training experience and the development of relevant muscles than with something else pertaining to bodyweight itself. I've read something about the passive tension provided by the compression of soft tissue (which is of course greater in heavier individuals) around the shoulders and elbows, but that doesn't sound like the full picture and I am still curious that something else might still be playing a part here.
Anyone know or have an educated guess?
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03-12-2021, 06:55 AM #1
Why is pressing strength in particular so sensitive to changes in bodyweight?
Bench: 345
Squat: 405
Deadlift: 505
"... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
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03-12-2021, 07:12 AM #2
Don’t have a scientific answer and it can be very individualized, but if you’re still overweight and only weigh 10-15 less, I bet you could’ve trained (in some way that works for you) where you could’ve maintained your BP strength while cutting.
Assuming it’s BP that you’ve built up/maintained over an extended period of time. Someone else will prob jump in with a scientific study that negates everything I said.
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03-12-2021, 08:40 AM #3
Atleast part of the equation is leverages. If you have a big fat chest, it reduces the RoM and you have more cushioning for stability etc
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03-12-2021, 09:30 AM #4
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03-12-2021, 09:39 AM #5
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03-12-2021, 09:44 AM #6
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03-12-2021, 09:46 AM #7
This is what I was trying to say in the last part. A bit like wraps for squats or bench, there’s just more meaty cushioning to store energy and trampoline the weight up
Sucks ass. Did you lift during that time? Eat any protein whatsoever? Sounds like you lost pure muscle*Deadlifts pants after taking a chit crew*
*Typos can go fucl themselves crew*
*Nice miscer crew*
*Loves reps, hates negs crew*
*Faps before workout crew*
*12+ hours of sleep crew*
*Faps during workout crew*
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03-12-2021, 11:50 AM #8
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03-12-2021, 11:51 AM #9
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03-12-2021, 04:24 PM #10
This. There's just less "oomph" to power up the weight because of the caloric deficit.
Weight loss is slower than loss of pressing strength. Things like leverages and fatty cushioning tissue take weeks to see changes in, whereas pressing strength drops off within days of starting a deficit. If someone loses 30 pounds, then sure their leverages change a bit, but that takes many weeks to see. And if you keep pressing/lifting then you're continually adjusting to your new leverages as they change.
Part of it also might be psychological. The caloric deficit makes you feel weaker, so you perform weaker because you expect it.Once upon a time (maxes 2020) ...
Squat 185, Bench 137, DL 205, @ bw 88.5 age 43
Workout Journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175647011&p=1630928323&viewfull=1#post1630928323
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03-12-2021, 09:34 PM #11
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03-12-2021, 10:40 PM #12
I think this is a big part of it. A little change in ROM can make a big difference (one way to see this is to just to do weighted pushups with and without a deficit, the rep count can drop a lot by that small adjustment). And benching definitely feels "easier" while bloated, it is like you have a feeling of being in more control of the weight.
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03-13-2021, 05:28 AM #13
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Extra rom from less back and titty fat. An extra inch of rom to a min/max'd bench form is a lot especially if you never trained a deeper than straight bar rom.
Less squish at the elbow (Bicep to 4arm)for some compressive rebound like a knee sleeve
You also use a lot less muscle to bench than you do to squat and dead and are legs are far more conditioned from walking ect.
Calorie defecits just suck
Deads... If your fat and cut you get so much better positioning. That's why you see the best pulls done in limited weight classes.
Squats.. Belly and thigh Fat helps you rebound out of the hole.
Plus what everyone else said.FMH crew - Couch.
'pick a program from the stickies' = biggest cop out post.
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03-13-2021, 10:02 AM #14
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03-13-2021, 11:17 AM #15
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03-13-2021, 02:26 PM #16
I've also been looking into this recently. I've found that it's not just with free weights, but the amount of weight I can lift on a chest press machine has also been affected by slight changes in bodyweight. I've found this with as little as a 3 to 4 pound difference in bodyweight. I don't know though if this is from actual muscle loss/gain, as it's not like I've had much fat difference between the two weights.
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03-13-2021, 03:26 PM #17
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05-03-2021, 05:15 AM #18
/resurrecting this thread
I just ran a novice LP that I had run a few years before and my deadlift and power clean numbers stayed the same despite having 8% less body weight. Now, my bench and OHP suffered considerably.
My bench was 12% less and my OHP 15% less; yet you would see less of a reduction in the OHP ROM than in the bench ROM. I think that because of the increased body weight, you may have more of a "base" to press from, giving you more stability that a standing movement like the OHP would require."Is he an honest man? If he is, you should respect him and let him continue with his work. Is he weak? If it were so, it would not be brave thing to do to push a man who is falling."
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05-03-2021, 05:52 AM #19
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05-03-2021, 11:35 AM #20
Apparently intermediate ones do too re C6W.
As long as the thread is already resurrected, as OP I'll make the observation in hindsight that my pressing strength actually exceeded where it was before I lost any weight referenced, having regained only about 5 pounds of the 10-15. Hence I think this was actually mostly a matter of being in a deficit.
That said, I'm still not lean so I'm still currently getting the advantages of tension/bloat around joints, etc., at least still categorically if not as much.Bench: 345
Squat: 405
Deadlift: 505
"... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
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05-03-2021, 12:18 PM #212022 -- Just maintaining and doing the van life
April 2021.................16 week cut.................168 lbs
2020......................375 / 285 / 505..............186 lbs
Pre-COVID..............335 / 295 / 499..............185 lbs
July 1, 2019................9 week cut.................164 lbs
Late April 2019.........285 / 275 / 440.............178 lbs
Oct, 2018..............175x6 / 145x6 / 275x5......163 lbs
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05-03-2021, 12:25 PM #22
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05-03-2021, 01:43 PM #232022 -- Just maintaining and doing the van life
April 2021.................16 week cut.................168 lbs
2020......................375 / 285 / 505..............186 lbs
Pre-COVID..............335 / 295 / 499..............185 lbs
July 1, 2019................9 week cut.................164 lbs
Late April 2019.........285 / 275 / 440.............178 lbs
Oct, 2018..............175x6 / 145x6 / 275x5......163 lbs
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05-03-2021, 01:54 PM #24
23 sets is pretty high but that's honestly not too surprising to me, either. 7-8 sets three times a week? A normal bench day I would do 4-5 flat, so throwing in some variations as well gets you there easily.
Bench: 345
Squat: 405
Deadlift: 505
"... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
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05-03-2021, 02:00 PM #25
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1/6 is overhead.
Seated ohp @6,7,8,8. Counting that as 3 sets.
Main bench is 7,8,9 1 back off so 4 hard sets.
Day 2
An overload bench that's a bit higher volume with 5 back offs after a single.
Day 3
Hard assistance 4 sets, like main but higher reps.
Tricep focused rep bench, like ohp but 10s so 3 ish sets.
Day 4
High rep tng ramps n back off so about 4 sets
It's not low, but it's not high volume really either5 day full body crew
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05-03-2021, 02:41 PM #26
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05-03-2021, 04:49 PM #27
Current blocks have 15 working sets of bench, 6 working sets of OHP, all spread over 4 days. I'd say this is on the high volume side though I've done similar in the recent past. Prior to that did 8 working sets a week and had flat pecs.
Once upon a time (maxes 2020) ...
Squat 185, Bench 137, DL 205, @ bw 88.5 age 43
Workout Journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175647011&p=1630928323&viewfull=1#post1630928323
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05-03-2021, 04:55 PM #28
My bench varies even based on water weight. It's generally a chit site, but this t-nation article theorizes that shoulder strength and size take the biggest hit from weight loss:https://www.t-nation.com/6-heavy-bench-press-lessons (lesson 2). My personal experience jibes with this.
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05-04-2021, 08:30 AM #29
I used to read T-Nation a lot and now I'm kind of embarrassed to admit that. Most of their articles are just set pieces to market products, and many of the "coaches" on there look neither strong nor athletic.
Even back then a lot of those guys were easy enough to identify and ignore, but I began to follow certain contributors fairly closely. It was somewhat disillusioning to find that they too were pawning off some ridiculous stuff and usually wrote articles clearly tailored to sell supplements.Bench: 345
Squat: 405
Deadlift: 505
"... But always, there remained, the discipline of steel!"
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