Please critique Upper/Lower routine?

[CatsAndMice10]

Intermediate lifter with the goal of size and strength. Going to try out total rep goals instead of sets across this time around. I basically increase weight when the rep goal is hit by the end of the exercise.

Upper A

1.Bench Press 3 sets, 15 rep goal
2.Barbell Row 3 sets, 15 rep goal
3.Incline Press 2 sets, 20 rep goal
4.Lat Pulldown 2 sets, 20 rep goal
5.Rope Face Pull 2 sets, 30 rep goal
6.Lateral Raise 2 sets, 30 rep goal
7.Skullcrushers 2 sets, 20 rep goal
8.Dumbbell Curl 2 sets, 30 rep goal

Lower A

1.Back Squat 3 sets, 15 rep goal
2.Romanian Deadlift 2 sets, 20 rep goal
3.Leg Press 2 sets, 20 rep goal
4.Lying Leg Curl 2 sets, 30 rep goal
5.Standing Calf Raise 2 sets, 30 rep goal
6.Cable Ab Crunch 2 sets, 30 rep goal

Upper B

1.Weighted Pull-Ups 3 sets, 15 rep goal
2.Overhead Press 3 sets, 15 rep goal
3.Seated Cable Row 2 sets, 20 rep goal
4.Dumbbell Bench Press 2 sets, 20 rep goal
5.Rope Face Pull 2 sets, 30 rep goal
6.Incline Chest Fly 2 sets, 30 rep goal
7.Barbell Curls 2 sets, 20 rep goal
8.Dumbbell Tricep Ext 2 sets, 30 rep goal

Lower B

1.Conv. Deadlift 3 sets, 15 rep goal
2.Front Squat 2 sets, 20 rep goal
3.Glute-Ham Raise 2 sets, 20 rep goal
4.Leg Extensions 2 sets, 30 rep goal
5.Standing Calf Raise 2 sets, 30 rep goal
6.Ab Leg Raises 2 sets, 30 rep goal

[MyEgoProblem]

Decent novice setup of you enjoy that style.

[paulinkansas]

If your shoulders start to hurt, drop the incline press and incline fly.

[CatsAndMice10]

Decent novice setup of you enjoy that style.

Thanks for the feedback. Any particular reason why it’s considered a novice setup?

[CatsAndMice10]

If your shoulders start to hurt, drop the incline press and incline fly.

Hmm why do you say this? Those movements don’t bother my shoulders

[BeginnerGainz]

Hmm why do you say this? Those movements don’t bother my shoulders

He specifically said IF they start to hurt.

[paulinkansas]

Hmm why do you say this? Those movements don’t bother my shoulders

I specifically said IF they start to hurt.

[Animal2692]

Thanks for the feedback. Any particular reason why it’s considered a novice setup?

Probably due to the weekly volume per body part as hard sets.

[CatsAndMice10]

He specifically said IF they start to hurt.

Sure, I get that. But I was wondering if he was implying they are inherently dangerous movements.

[BeginnerGainz]

Sure, I get that. But I was wondering if he was implying they are inherently dangerous movements.

Any movement you do in a gym is inherently dangerous if abused and overused.

[CatsAndMice10]

I specifically said IF they start to hurt.

Thanks for the feedback but could you elaborate a little bit?

Probably due to the weekly volume per body part as hard sets.

Oh okay. So upping the volume would bring it to intermediate?

[CatsAndMice10]

Any movement you do in a gym is inherently dangerous if abused and overused.

Yep understood. Was just curious why he singled those two out instead of saying what you just said.

I don’t see how flat bench would be any safer than incline if you get me

[Filmbuff81]

4 total sets of incline bench and flies isn’t kill your shoulders.

Just don’t be dumb and try to go heavy as possible and grind out 5 reps on flies lol.

[TolerantLactose]

Thanks for the feedback. Any particular reason why it’s considered a novice setup?

I'd say the rep goal system.

[CatsAndMice10]

4 total sets of incline bench and flies isn’t kill your shoulders.

Just don’t be dumb and try to go heavy as possible and grind out 5 reps on flies lol.

Thanks for the feedback. No definitely not for 5 reps haha. Incline is 2 sets for 20 total reps (2x10), flys 2 for 30 total (2x15).

Any issues in terms of the program setup itself?

I'd say the rep goal system.

Ohh I did not know this. So it’s nothing to do with the program layout itself? I was actually doing reps across prior to my deload but thought I’d give rep goals a try.

What about the rep goal system makes it a novice setup?

Thanks for the feedback btw

[Filmbuff81]

I agree with pretty much anything ego says regarding programming so I have the same viewpoint it looks fine.

Run it and see how it goes and adjust as you have some data to work with.

[CatsAndMice10]

I agree with pretty much anything ego says regarding programming so I have the same viewpoint it looks fine.

Run it and see how it goes and adjust as you have some data to work with.

Thanks man, appreciate it. Ego referred to it as a novice setup but my numbers are pushing intermediate. What changes would you suggest to make it appropriate for an intermediate?

[MyEgoProblem]

Thanks man, appreciate it. Ego referred to it as a novice setup but my numbers are pushing intermediate. What changes would you suggest to make it appropriate for an intermediate?

None if its still working!

Its ideal to be in the state where your adaptations are quick enough to keep up with rapid novice speed progression setups

And/or arent grinding your self to dust

Hypothetically tho...one way.
*I'd limit your rpe so you don't end up grinding
*undulate the loading (heavy /light).
*increase one day's volume ("sets") and bump up the rep goal totals
*increase one day's intensity
*bonus. Rotate some old lifts out and new lifts in

[CatsAndMice10]

None if its still working!

Its ideal to be in the state where your adaptations are quick enough to keep up with rapid novice speed progression setups

And/or arent grinding your self to dust

Hypothetically tho...
*I'd limit your rpe so you don't end up grinding
*increase volume ("sets") and bump up the rep goal totals
*undulate the loading (heavy /light).
*bonus. Rotate some old lifts out and new lifts in

Thanks a lot for the help!

Yep I have rpe caps on each movement. Volume is about 10 sets per muscle group but I’ll definitely increase it when I stall. It’s better to increase on one day instead of across the board? The rep goals work out to be 3x5 for mains, 2x10 for assistance and 2x15 for isos. Is doing it this way the heavy/light you’re talking about (alternating mains for 5’s and assistance for 10’s for each day)?

Is lift rotation still crucial even if I have A/B days with different movements each day so everything is performed only once a week? I don’t think I know of that many exercises to replace them all hahaha (equip limitations)

Thanks again!

[MyEgoProblem]

Thanks a lot for the help!

Yep I have rpe caps on each movement. Volume is about 10 sets per muscle group but I’ll definitely increase it when I stall. It’s better to increase on one day instead of across the board? The rep goals work out to be 3x5 for mains, 2x10 for assistance and 2x15 for isos. Is doing it this way the heavy/light you’re talking about (alternating mains for 5’s and assistance for 10’s for each day)?

Is lift rotation still crucial even if I have A/B days with different movements each day so everything is performed only once a week? I don’t think I know of that many exercises to replace them all hahaha

Thanks again!

I certainly like the difference lifts on each day. I personally don't program the same lift more than once per week. I listed it as a bonus incase you got bored or felt the need for different angles.

I'd Consider at some point straight up adding sets and increasing goal For some and increasing intesity and lowering goal on others you may care more about the numbers.

A quick example may be..

1.Bench Press 3 sets, 15 rep goal
2.Barbell Row 3 sets, 15 rep goal
3.Incline Press 2 sets, 20 rep goal
4.Lat Pulldown 2 sets, 20 rep goal
5.Rope Face Pull 2 sets, 30 rep goal
6.Lateral Raise 2 sets, 30 rep goal
7.Skullcrushers 2 sets, 20 rep goal
8.Dumbbell Curl 2 sets, 30 rep goal

To

1.Bench Press 3 sets, 10 rep goal
2.Barbell Row 3 sets, 20 rep goal
3.Incline Press 3 sets, 30 rep goal
4.Lat Pulldown 3 sets, 30 rep goal
5. Rear delt fly, 3 sets, 45 rep goal
6. Cable Lateral Raise 3 sets, 45 rep goal
7. Jm press 3 sets, 45 rep goal
8. Cable curl 3 sets, 45 rep goal

But will need to be done by feel and with more individualisation. This is more a transitional setup for true novice to true intermediate.

[Animal2692]

I'd say the rep goal system.

Why is the rep goal system for novices?

[paulinkansas]

l
7. Jm press 3 sets, 45 rep goal

What's a JM press? The only JM abbreviation I know comes from the movie "Clerks" and involves a roll of paper towels and a bottle of windex that you use at an adult theater.

[MyEgoProblem]

What's a JM press? The only JM abbreviation I know comes from the movie "Clerks" and involves a roll of paper towels and a bottle of windex that you use at an adult theater.

Man. I've not seen any Kevin Smith stuff in years. I need to watch the reboot.

https://youtu.be/hOCW9cE-GJg
Jm blakley. Modified staight bar tricep extension

[Animal2692]

What's a JM press? The only JM abbreviation I know comes from the movie "Clerks" and involves a roll of paper towels and a bottle of windex that you use at an adult theater.

Hold up, I've never heard of an "adult" theater.

[CatsAndMice10]

I certainly like the difference lifts on each day. I personally don't program the same lift more than once per week. I listed it as a bonus incase you got bored or felt the need for different angles.

I'd Consider at some point straight up adding sets and increasing goal For some and increasing intesity and lowering goal on others you may care more about the numbers.

A quick example may be..

1.Bench Press 3 sets, 15 rep goal
2.Barbell Row 3 sets, 15 rep goal
3.Incline Press 2 sets, 20 rep goal
4.Lat Pulldown 2 sets, 20 rep goal
5.Rope Face Pull 2 sets, 30 rep goal
6.Lateral Raise 2 sets, 30 rep goal
7.Skullcrushers 2 sets, 20 rep goal
8.Dumbbell Curl 2 sets, 30 rep goal

To

1.Bench Press 3 sets, 10 rep goal
2.Barbell Row 3 sets, 20 rep goal
3.Incline Press 3 sets, 30 rep goal
4.Lat Pulldown 3 sets, 30 rep goal
5. Rear delt fly, 3 sets, 45 rep goal
6. Cable Lateral Raise 3 sets, 45 rep goal
7. Jm press 3 sets, 45 rep goal
8. Cable curl 3 sets, 45 rep goal

But will need to be done by feel and with more individualisation. This is more a transitional setup for true novice to true intermediate.

Thank you so much. Really appreciate you taking the time to write all that up. I understand what you’re saying now.

Just one last question, do you think it’s possible for this setup to take someone up to late intermediate and even advanced just by making continual adjustments and tweaks such as the one’s you’ve mentioned? I really like U/L splits the most and can’t see myself doing anything else.

Very thankful for your time

[MyEgoProblem]

Thank you so much. Really appreciate you taking the time to write all that up. I understand what you’re saying now.

Just one last question, do you think it’s possible for this setup to take someone up to late intermediate and even advanced just by making continual adjustments and tweaks such as the one’s you’ve mentioned? I really like U/L splits the most and can’t see myself doing anything else.

Very thankful for your time

If you respond well to this style... Rep goal.
You could get pretty deep intermediate, providing you get a good grasp on your rpe and don't over push your sets.

I see it burying most late intermediates tho. You might be the one who gets by.

There are Many ways to spin up an upper/lower. This split can very much take you to advanced. No question

[CatsAndMice10]

If you respond well to this style... Rep goal.
You could get pretty deep intermediate, providing you get a good grasp on your rpe and don't over push your sets.

I see it burying most late intermediates tho. You might be the one who gets by.

There are Many ways to spin up an upper/lower. This split can very much take you to advanced. No question

Thank you so much. Yep, rep goals are just something I’m trying out. I’ve only ever done sets across and may go back to it if rep goals don’t work out. Thanks again man, you’re a legend!

[MyEgoProblem]

Thank you so much. Yep, rep goals are just something I’m trying out. I’ve only ever done sets across and may go back to it if rep goals don’t work out. Thanks again man, you’re a legend!

I know 😎👌

[paulinkansas]

Man. I've not seen any Kevin Smith stuff in years. I need to watch the reboot.

I like Quentin Tarrantino stuff too. I've got a furnished rental house that is full of Q.T. movie posters in the living room for decoration.

[MyEgoProblem]

I like Quentin Tarrantino stuff too. I've got a furnished rental house that is full of Q.T. movie posters in the living room for decoration.

Solid deco 😁👌