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  1. #1
    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Guy benching 410lb at 154lb bodyweight

    This is an old video but damn...2.66x bw bench what the hell. 4:00
    https://youtu.be/l84vmuuuHRg

    I've read the sticky on how volume is biggest factor for hypertrophy and I'm trying to bump the volume up a bit more in my routine as a result. My biggest confusion with training for hypertrophy is how volume is the main contributor when you also hear about progressive overload. Progressive overload sounds a lot like training for strength to me. I heard Eric Helms talking about this with Omar Isuf that the reason people who train for strength aren't as big is because they don't do enough volume. I'm after hypertrophy and the concept of progressive overload has led me to get caught up in the weight on the bar because progressive overload is often touted as the tell tale tale sign that hypertrophy is occurring. That guy for example had to get to that 410 bench through progressive overload yet he's around my bodyweight. Where's all the muscle from the progressive overload if it's touted as being the most important factor in hypertrophy? I know strength is a skill but damn, how much of it can it be skill until more muscle is needed to be stronger? I get told that I need to make sure progression is occurring over time to get bigger but then I end up getting told the opposite that if hypertrophy is my goal, then weight on the bar is secondary. This is very conflicting to hear. So is hypertrophy about the volume more or progressive overload?
    Last edited by Animal2692; 03-06-2021 at 09:15 PM.
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    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Yes, this example you chose is quite common so everything else you've heard must be wrong.
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    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Yes, this example you chose is quite common so everything else you've heard must be wrong.
    What do you mean? I'm just saying that people ask me why I care about the weight on the bar when I'm training for hypertrophy instead. And it's because everywhere it says progressive overload=size. Is gaining muscle not about more weight on the bar?

    One day you hear training for size is separate from training for strength. Another day you hear training for size=training for strength. So which is it?

    Progressive overload sounds like powerlifting to me
    Last edited by Animal2692; 03-06-2021 at 09:23 PM.
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    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    What do you mean? I'm just saying that people ask me why I care about the weight on the bar when I'm training for hypertrophy instead. And it's because everywhere it says progressive overload=size. Is gaining muscle not about more weight on the bar?

    One day you hear training for size is separate from training for strength. Another day you hear training for size=training for strength. So which is it
    I've heard you have to be pretty tall to be able to play in the NBA but this guy who was 5'3" played in the NBA 30 years ago, so it's very conflicting to hear.

    You tend to have very selective comprehension with things you hear on this forum and read online.
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    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    I've heard you have to be pretty tall to be able to play in the NBA but this guy who was 5'3" played in the NBA 30 years ago, so it's very conflicting to hear.

    You tend to have very selective comprehension with things you hear on this forum and read online.
    Sorry but I don't see anything constructive here. That guy is benching 410 at 154 and they say progressive overload=size, I don't know if you even watched the video
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    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    Sorry but I don't see anything constructive here
    If you look closer there's an observation and implied advice, but I've said it before so good luck!
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    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    If you look closer there's an observation and implied advice, but I've said it before so good luck!
    Well you're making it sound like he's just a freak anomaly over us humans and sweeping it under the rug as something we should just not talk about as a result lol
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    Progressive overload is more than “weight on the bar”. There is reduced rest times, more sets, more reps, slower eccentrics, among others. So I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again “lift heavier things for more reps and you’ll get bigger and stronger”.

    Also, that kid is like 5’ something and only good at one thing. I can guaran-damn-tee you he won’t be good at much else because strength is specific to movements and when he isn’t on a bench, he is just another scrawny weak human. God forbid he does anything physical for a living.
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    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Progressive overload is more than “weight on the bar”. There is reduced rest times, more sets, more reps, slower eccentrics, among others.

    Also, that kid is like 5’ something and only good at one thing. I can guaran-damn-tee you he won’t be good at much else because strength is specific to movements and when he isn’t on a bench, he is just another scrawny human.
    And that's what I'm trying to get at with this thread. Do I have the wrong idea about progressive overload? To me progressive overload always meant powerlifting so I've taken a powerlifting approach to get bigger (which people would scoff at) but now that I'm focusing on just proximity to failure and volume with hypertrophy being the goal, the weight on the bar has pretty much gone out the window for me which goes against my previous idea of progressive overload
    Last edited by Animal2692; 03-06-2021 at 09:43 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    And that's what I'm trying to get at with this thread. Do I have the wrong idea about progressive overload? To me progressive overload always meant powerlifting so I've taken a powerlifting approach to get bigger but now that I'm focusing on just proximity to failure and volume with hypertrophy being the goal, the weight on the bar has pretty much gone out the window for me which goes against my previous idea of progressive overload
    Yes, in short you have the wrong idea.
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    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Yes, in short you have the wrong idea.
    I'm disappointed lol. Why the hell is progressive overload touted everywhere as lifting more over time then? I've poured all my effort into that and it got me nowhere as far as hypertrophy is concerned when that's my primary goal
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    Clownpilled SaviorSelfJT's Avatar
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    Not sure what the point of the thread is, but if you are using that guy as a counterexample that training for strength doesn't get you size, he's small not cause of this training, but because he must have eaten a low calorie diet and didn't gain weight. The proof of that is the fact that he weighed 154lbs. If he bulked to 200+ during his time, he'd have big muscles. Instead he chose to eat like a bird

    If you are wondering how its possible to bench that much at that bodyweight, a couple factors you probably didn't think about it:
    1. That guy probably has extremely favorable body structure for the bench press: such as having tendons that attach further from the joint
    2. If he's a bench specialist, he's probably neglected his legs and back, so even though he's 154lbs, he might have the torso of someone that weighs 170+
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    I'm disappointed lol. Why the hell is progressive overload touted everywhere as lifting more over time then? I've poured all my effort into that and it got me nowhere as far as hypertrophy is concerned when that's my primary goal
    You gotta be a troll. Right?
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    Originally Posted by SaviorSelfJT View Post
    You gotta be a troll. Right?
    No dude, not even close. This is actually my first time seeing you respond in this section. Others here know how I was doing pretty low volume and was obsessed with putting weight on the bar when my main goal is hypertrophy. But I was only doing that because everywhere I'd look online, it always says "progressive overload is the driver of hypertrophy". I've ditched that mindset in favor of more volume and proximity to failure. Now I'm on the other end where idc about about weight on the bar as much
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    I'm going to re-read that. I've known that progressive overload is a result of training instead of forcing it but I was still emphasizing the weight on the bar. So when you were questioning if I'm trying to be a powerlifter, it perplexed me because I was like, "well I'm trying to get stronger in order to be bigger" which has led me to being displeased with my lifts and even rushing the weight. I only cared about the weight because my belief was that more weight lifted=more mass.
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    Can't be bothered checking official records to see if its real or not.

    But as the top comment says, he invested all his points in one skill.

    Also progressive overload (across a variety of lifts and rep ranges) is the primary predictor that hypertrophy has occurred, its a useful tool to let us know how the development block went because measuring hypertrophy at any accurate level is ridiculous past novice in the short to medium term.

    If you want another fun bench to blow your brain up go look up John Haack xD
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    He was born with exceptional tendon and joints and leverages for strength in the bench.. He is a freak.

    The exception not the rule.

    They key point you missed is When people talk about when you add more muscle your strength potential goes up... They mean for that one person.

    If that one person adds 10kilo of muscle their strength goes up. Period.

    Person a and person b aren't built the same. So comparing that was doesn't work.

    I only cared about the weight because my belief was that more weight lifted=more mass.
    Its the opposite.. More mass = more strength.

    Outside of neural and skill factors, which can ironically make you think you are adding muscle when you arent

    Again.. Rip/ss have been the biggest culprits for it. its outdated But many still tout it on social

    Brian minors work is the pinnacle of getting it right.

    Size. Weight on the bar is there only to constrain you to the rep ranges and intensities you selected that are appropriate for the stimulus. And to making tracking long term trends easy.

    It matters that its the right weight, for the right number of hard sets. And it's a good indicator that if it up a bit so is your Lbm.

    Powerlifting for a 1rm is a different animal
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    And again we are back to

    https://open.spotify.com/episode/7fl...urce=copy-link

    Listen to this... A few times. Till it settles in your head.

    It covers everything. In far more details and in a much easier form to get in to soak in.
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    I'm disappointed lol. Why the hell is progressive overload touted everywhere as lifting more over time then? I've poured all my effort into that and it got me nowhere as far as hypertrophy is concerned when that's my primary goal
    Gentle reminder that it’s been 3 weeks of being in the gym again. If you stop measuring hypertrophy on a weekly basis and googling new ways to maximize your gains, you won’t need to change your philosophy week to week.

    Lift with any legit approach consistently for a longer period of time, and you just might see gains in the mirror and on the bar. It’s not an either/or situation.
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Gentle reminder that it’s been 3 weeks of being in the gym again. If you stop measuring hypertrophy on a weekly basis and googling new ways to maximize your gains, you won’t need to change your philosophy week to week.

    Lift with any legit approach consistently for a longer period of time, and you just might see gains in the mirror and on the bar. It’s not an either/or situation.
    That's true too. But as you know, I started off with only 6 hard sets per week and being obsessed with adding weight to the bar. So I wasn't even training the right way for hypertrophy. Last week I went up to 9 sets and this week I'm going up to 12 and stopping there since I think it will be plenty and won't need anymore sets for a very long time. I want to at least do it right if I'm going to be doing it for a long time. It's a relief to not have to worry about the weight anymore because even though I've done higher volume before, I was still in the same trap with the weight

    I had a friend in college who competed in bodybuilding (natty), he was a lot bigger than anyone else who was lifting more weight in the gym, did a few workouts with him and he always told me, "The weight doesn't matter." after having me go down to 15lb dumbbells for seated curls. But it didn't sit with me for very long because everywhere I'd read up on gaining muscle, it would say "you need to get stronger to get bigger."
    Last edited by Animal2692; 03-07-2021 at 08:49 AM.
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    And again we are back to

    https://open.spotify.com/episode/7fl...urce=copy-link

    Listen to this... A few times. Till it settles in your head.

    It covers everything. In far more details and in a much easier form to get in to soak in.
    Found the video of it on YouTube.
    https://youtu.be/qgJkovB22WU

    It has answered all my questions about hypertrophy and progressive overload. Thanks a lot.
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    I'll just also say that Im 100% a concurrent guy.
    My programming is always a hybrid of peak strength, high force production and adding muscle where I need it.

    Just Not a fan of pure hyp stuff. I've tried multiple times and quit from boredom and rebounded to Bulgarian xD

    But for the purpose on this topic. All my posting stands.

    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    Found the video of it on YouTube.
    https://youtu.be/qgJkovB22WU

    It has answered all my questions about hypertrophy and progressive overload. Thanks a lot.
    Can't stand omars attempts at comedy. I had to skip the first 15 mins.
    Couldnt imagine watching him on yt. That's why I have the audio only link.
    Last edited by MyEgoProblem; 03-07-2021 at 02:45 PM.
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    I'll just also say that Im 100% a concurrent guy.
    My programming is always a hybrid of peak strength, high force production and adding muscle where I need it.

    Just Not a fan of pure hyp stuff. I've tried multiple times and quit from boredom and rebounded to Bulgarian xD

    But for the purpose on this topic. All my posting stands.



    Can't stand omars attempts at comedy. I had to skip the first 15 mins.
    Couldnt imagine watching him on yt. That's why I have the audio only link.
    I think they talked about that too where powerlifters are only concerned with more muscle mass if that's their last option to getting stronger after all the skill and technique has been dialed in. I'm all about pure hypertrophy. I'm still experimenting with different exercise variations to target the intended area better. Just tried out chest supported db rows today over pendlays and I've gotta say, I'm never going back to pendlays again lol. I want to try out seal rows next time to see if I like those even more, but gotta find a way to raise the bench up more.
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    I think they talked about that too where powerlifters are only concerned with more muscle mass if that's their last option to getting stronger after all the skill and technique has been dialed in. I'm all about pure hypertrophy. I'm still experimenting with different exercise variations to target the intended area better. Just tried out chest supported db rows today over pendlays and I've gotta say, I'm never going back to pendlays again lol. I want to try out seal rows next time to see if I like those even more, but gotta find a way to raise the bench up more.
    Pendlays did amazing things for my entire back and sbd gains. I'd still do em now except I'm too lazy 😂

    I do like spider rows (prone incline) tho. But it's closer to an iso than a comp.. Totally neglects the erectors.
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    I think they talked about that too where powerlifters are only concerned with more muscle mass if that's their last option to getting stronger after all the skill and technique has been dialed in. I'm all about pure hypertrophy. I'm still experimenting with different exercise variations to target the intended area better. Just tried out chest supported db rows today over pendlays and I've gotta say, I'm never going back to pendlays again lol. I want to try out seal rows next time to see if I like those even more, but gotta find a way to raise the bench up more.
    Pick something and stick with it....
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    That's true too. But as you know, I started off with only 6 hard sets per week and being obsessed with adding weight to the bar. So I wasn't even training the right way for hypertrophy.
    Yes, I recall an 8-page thread about something like this. :P That's why complaining about getting nowhere in 3 weeks is even more silly.

    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    It's a relief to not have to worry about the weight anymore
    No ones saying you should never more up in weight either btw. You tend to always go back to a black-and-white way of thinking of "it's either this way or that" from people's advice. There are various factors usually.
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Pick something and stick with it....
    Edit: I’m glad I could make a contribution to this inevitable 3-page thread.
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Yes, I recall an 8-page thread about something like this. :P That's why complaining about getting nowhere in 3 weeks is even more silly.



    No ones saying you should never more up in weight either btw. You tend to always go back to a black-and-white way of thinking of "it's either this way or that" from people's advice. There are various factors usually.
    Oh I'm still going to up the weight or reps, but it will be completely reactive to the rep range, rpe, and how I feel that day. Progressive overload has just been pushed so much over the years that even Eric Helms admitted to being guilty of the same rhetoric, but now he changed his outlook.
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    What you are doing is picking some outlier and using that in an attempt to try and prove an argument, but there are many fallacies with this, including:

    - This guy is the exception, not the norm
    - He's likely a bench specialist, who has perfected his technique moreso than most people
    - Completely ignores the fact that if he were to gain 20-30 lbs, his bench would likely go up
    - You can't compare person a to person b as evidence, since everyone is different in terms of genetics, training history, etc
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