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  1. #1
    Registered User QDubs's Avatar
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    Is Rogue Abandoning Their Customers ?

    A bit over a year ago, after considerable research, I put my name on the lists for a Rogue R-3, anchor kit, safety straps, matador, landmines and a few other attachments. A few weeks later I was able to order which I did promptly. Fortunately the rack and anchors came fairly quickly in June but other parts have been trickling in since.

    In the meantime Rogue have discontinued the safety straps for the Infinity / R series racks and told me that they will not have any to sell me. They now offer them only for the more expensive racks. My first reaction is being angry about my own situation of now having a rack with no safety straps available*.

    The bigger issue is that Rogue are abandoning all of their Infinity / R series customers (and I'd guess that this could be their top selling system). When you choose a rack you are also choosing a system. Most of us don't want just the rack but we also want the variety of attachments that are available and will be in the future. Sometimes what attachments are available is as important or more so than the rack itself.

    Presumably this is purely a marketing decision to drive customers to the more profitable RML. The question now is what will Rogue do in the future? What else will they discontinue? How can I or anyone have confidence in buying from them?
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    Funny you say that. I just received an order from them and the box was mangled, items appeared they were thrown in or repackaged, and the rogue sticker on the side of the item was falling off.
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    Registered User QDubs's Avatar
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    Did Rogue discontinue these for safety or lawsuit risk reasons rather than marketing?

    I am not a materials engineer but I have worked with webbing a fair amount in a number of different applications. In general, in my experience, webbing strength is proportional to its width. If 1" webbing has a MBS (max break strength) of 4,000 lbs then 2" of the same webbing will be 8,000 and 3" will be 12,000. So the 3" for the RML is stronger than the 2" of the Infinity/R series racks (assuming proper stitching).

    I believe shock strength is similarly proportional. As well, there is a belief by some that if a web strap experiences a shock incident (such as dropped bar) that it can no longer be trusted and should be replaced.

    If they discontinued these for safety rather than marketing, then what is their responsibility to everyone who already has and is using these? Are they not safe? If a strap experiences a dropped bar then should it be replaced? And so what if Rogue have made replacements unavailable?
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    2x3 racks have been falling out of favor for a while now so this isn't a surprise and people have been talking about 2x3 accessories not being made for some time. They have said they are not stopping making accessories for that line but they are prioritizing other lines first given the current market. If you had been paying attention the last few years then it would be pretty obvious that the monster line is getting the newest attachments first followed by monster lite. The 2x3 line hasn't gotten any of the latest and greatest for a while but you really don't need that many attachments anyway.
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    Why would you assume Infinity is their top selling system? I'd be very surprised if that was the case. Products get discontinued when companies decide to go in a more profitable direction or change their strategy in hopes of becoming more profitable. Sorry you're getting negatively impacted by a business decision but Rogue is hardly the first company to do something like this. No company can please all of the people all of the time.
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    Registered User QDubs's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Icarian5150 View Post
    Funny you say that. I just received an order from them and the box was mangled, items appeared they were thrown in or repackaged, and the rogue sticker on the side of the item was falling off.
    Hah! Yep. For one shipment (I think landmine handle) the driver brought the item in one hand and the mangled box in the other and asked if I wanted to refuse delivery. All looked OK so I kept it. But yeah, if stuff was damaged (too much) I'd send it back.

    I think for stuff this heavy that packaging can be difficult. The cost to package perfectly would likely be expensive and increase the shipping costs quite a bit. What they do likely works for 999 out of 1000 packages so it's less expensive for them and us to just redo that 1 in 1000.
    Last edited by QDubs; 03-04-2021 at 08:18 AM.
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    Registered User QDubs's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ncsuLuke View Post
    2x3 racks have been falling out of favor for a while now.
    That's interesting. I'd not noticed that. Numerous review and comparisons I read recommended 2x3. For me (and I think for many or most people?) a 2x3 is more than sturdy enough and so no need to spend the extra $'s for a 3x3. I also prefer the extra 2" of allowance between the plates and rack/j-hooks so for me 2x3 was better anyway. I was already spending extra for Rogue over Titan or others.

    If Rogue are discontinuing or de-emphasizing the 2x3, which if fine if they choose to do so, then they should state that and give some notice that they are doing so instead of leaving people hung out to dry. Reputable companies do that so that they don't leave their customers in the lurch. If they'd said that they'd no longer be offering the straps after Jan 2022 for instance then I'd likely still have gone w/ the R-3 but ordered an extra pair or two of straps just in case. Discontinuing them with no notice and especially sending me the rack and not telling me that they'd done so or suggesting that I upgrade was really kind of deplorable.
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    I would be surprised if Rogue was completely abandoning the Infinity series. I don't know for certain if it's their most popular series, but anecdotally I'd guess that it is or was. Perhaps the straps simply weren't selling or perhaps as someone above said, they were experiencing more failures with a 2" strap vs a 3". In any case, I doubt they would be driving people to the ML. That has been their bastard child for years now. We didn't get flip-down safeties. The lever arms get panned in reviews whereas the Monsters are well-regarded. And so on.
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    Originally Posted by QDubs View Post
    A bit over a year ago, after considerable research, I put my name on the lists for a Rogue R-3, anchor kit, safety straps, matador, landmines and a few other attachments. A few weeks later I was able to order which I did promptly. Fortunately the rack and anchors came fairly quickly in June but other parts have been trickling in since.

    In the meantime Rogue have discontinued the safety straps for the Infinity / R series racks and told me that they will not have any to sell me. They now offer them only for the more expensive racks. My first reaction is being angry about my own situation of now having a rack with no safety straps available*.

    The bigger issue is that Rogue are abandoning all of their Infinity / R series customers (and I'd guess that this could be their top selling system). When you choose a rack you are also choosing a system. Most of us don't want just the rack but we also want the variety of attachments that are available and will be in the future. Sometimes what attachments are available is as important or more so than the rack itself.

    Presumably this is purely a marketing decision to drive customers to the more profitable RML. The question now is what will Rogue do in the future? What else will they discontinue? How can I or anyone have confidence in buying from them?
    Honestly, I'd be shocked if either Infinity or R series racking is their top selling, in fact, I would say almost with 100% certainty that it's either RM or RML lines. The reality is that 2x3 just doesn't make a lot of sense being that the cost of 3x3 compared to 2x3 really isn't much different now, so 3x3 is just becoming industry standard. I actually am more surprised that it took them this long to phase out the 2x3 setups.
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    Originally Posted by MGM711 View Post
    Honestly, I'd be shocked if either Infinity or R series racking is their top selling, in fact, I would say almost with 100% certainty that it's either RM or RML lines. The reality is that 2x3 just doesn't make a lot of sense being that the cost of 3x3 compared to 2x3 really isn't much different now, so 3x3 is just becoming industry standard. I actually am more surprised that it took them this long to phase out the 2x3 setups.
    exactly. Rogue is doing what the market is demanding. The market wants 3x3 in either 5/8" holes or 1" holes and so that you can use attachements from different companies.
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    Originally Posted by QDubs View Post
    the driver brought the item in one hand and the mangled box in the other and asked if I wanted to refuse delivery. All looked OK so I kept it. But yeah, if stuff was damaged (too much).
    Is this seriously a Rogue issue? Or a UPS/Fed Ex issue? And as far as issues over the past year..... it's hard to say.... but maybe a pandemic has played a factor.

    I've only ordered a handful of items from Rogue in the past 12 months, but there were zero issues with any of the 2-3 orders..... so I don't really feel abandoned.
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    I've only gotten one item from Rogue in the past year (a pull up bar) and it was well packaged. However, it was beat up on the outside of the box quite a bit, so now you know why I call UPS the "United Parcel Smashers." It's all the shipping companies though, not just one or the other.

    As for the second issue of feeling abandoned by Rogue, I can relate. I don't agree with them selling off the last of their (lesser selling???) product line only to discontinue all or much of the accessories of that line without warning. It leaves the consumer bent over a barrel. At least state that the product being sold is going to be discontinued in the near future and you won't be able to get support or accessories after a certain date.

    Of course it could be related to the pandemic and manufacturing being cut back, and (maybe?) they didn't realize they wouldn't be able to offer their full line up of racks and accessories? Either way, you're still stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'd be looking to modify some 3x3 accessories, especially if you could shim the gap with some aluminum blocks (as an example) that were fastened to the 3x3 brackets with machine screws and loctite. Just tossing out random ideas "on the fly" here that wouldn't require fancy tools and a ton of know-how.
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    While UPS is definitely terrible, Rogue should package some of their stuff better to avoid the issue altogether. My monos were beaten up when they arrived and there wasn't much keeping that from happening really. Compare that to stuff I have gotten from Prime which is completely encased in foam so it doesn't budge at all in the box and it's night and day.
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    I just got a Rogue curl bar in the mail today. I only ordered it like 2-3 days ago. It could have been packaged better. It was just in a tube with tape on the end. Honestly, I'm surprised it didnt come out given how rough UPS is around my parts.

    As far as your series, I can't speak to it specifically. But you just need to adapt. I bought the Monster Lite power rack. I wanted a landmine, but the 5/8" landmine was garbage. So I bought the landmine 2.0 for the monster series and drilled out the hole in the rack where I mounted it. No big deal, other than buying a very expensive stepped drill bit.

    As another poster alluded to, you likely can just buy accessories for the next series up. You may need to make adjustments (like drilling out holes), but who cares. I wouldn't go assuming a 2" strap is twice as strong as a 1" strap, because there can be a LOT of variables that determine strength (I'm an engineer, so I know). However, all these accessories are designed to hold large loads from the same activity, so you really don't need to worry about 1 being stronger than another. They're probably designed with a factor of safety of at least 3 or 4, so surely they're considerably stronger than advertised.
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    Originally Posted by rpark View Post
    Is this seriously a Rogue issue? Or a UPS/Fed Ex issue? And as far as issues over the past year..... it's hard to say.... but maybe a pandemic has played a factor.

    I've only ordered a handful of items from Rogue in the past 12 months, but there were zero issues with any of the 2-3 orders..... so I don't really feel abandoned.
    I'm going to guess it's a UPS issue (unless the manner in which the product was packaged was suspect). In the past three months I've had two orders from Rogue arrive. The first one, the UPS driver accidentally dropped the entire pallet off the side of the truck (hey, it was January in MN and slippery). The second delivery, the driver was rolling the boxes up to the garage and tipped the whole thing over and tumbled the boxes in the driveway.
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    Originally Posted by ncsuLuke View Post
    While UPS is definitely terrible, Rogue should package some of their stuff better to avoid the issue altogether. My monos were beaten up when they arrived and there wasn't much keeping that from happening really. Compare that to stuff I have gotten from Prime which is completely encased in foam so it doesn't budge at all in the box and it's night and day.
    It's funny you mention Prime as I've ordered dozens of Cap silver weight plates off Amazon and had multiple shipments arrive with the Amazon tape ripped and the box arriving empty. They lost a 40lb plate shipment in transport years back, and refunded me so I could reorder. It happened around Xmas, and one day randomly around my birthday (in JULY!!!!) the missing package arrived and I was like ,"WTF???? When did I order THIS???". LOL.

    I called Amazon to return them so my card wouldn't be charged, and the customer service rep mentioned that it wasn't worth their time processing a return since the order was under $50 and not worth the risk of shipping 40lbs back (hoping the package would arrive in one piece at their facility). One of the few times life worked out in MY favor, so those plates are separate in my collection (and obviously considered "lucky" to me-Haha).
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    Originally Posted by Lifts4longevity View Post
    It's funny you mention Prime as I've ordered dozens of Cap silver weight plates off Amazon and had multiple shipments arrive with the Amazon tape ripped and the box arriving empty. They lost a 40lb plate shipment in transport years back, and refunded me so I could reorder. It happened around Xmas, and one day randomly around my birthday (in JULY!!!!) the missing package arrived and I was like ,"WTF???? When did I order THIS???". LOL.

    I called Amazon to return them so my card wouldn't be charged, and the customer service rep mentioned that it wasn't worth their time processing a return since the order was under $50 and not worth the risk of shipping 40lbs back (hoping the package would arrive in one piece at their facility). One of the few times life worked out in MY favor, so those plates are separate in my collection (and obviously considered "lucky" to me-Haha).
    Actually meant Prime Fitness, not Amazon. I've had plenty of wtf moments with Amazon though.
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    Probably SKU consolidation and focusing on better margin and more popular items. They have a lot of products and high demand, so they are probably focusing their production efforts and getting rid of the chafe.
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    Originally Posted by ncsuLuke View Post
    Actually meant Prime Fitness, not Amazon. I've had plenty of wtf moments with Amazon though.
    Can confirm, Prime Fitness does not fukk around when it comes to packaging. Amazon can be iffy but at least returns and refunds are usually a breeze.
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    Originally Posted by broganoff View Post
    Probably SKU consolidation and focusing on better margin and more popular items. They have a lot of products and high demand, so they are probably focusing their production efforts and getting rid of the chafe.
    Possibly, though i'd be surprised. If that were the case I'd think numerous other accessories for the Infinity/R series would have been eliminated as well. Or the entire system. To me safety straps are a basic element that I'd think most people would want and are kind of critical to a rack system in this day. If they were eliminating SKU's I'd think other accessories would be axed first.
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    barbell junkie thejosef's Avatar
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    Not trying to pile on Rogue here, as probably 80% of gym is Rogue, but I recently ordered 4 pairs of their urethane dumbbells and all but one set had issues. I ended up selling them all and moving on. Most of the ones I received had very shiny, slick finishes with bubbles in the urethane. The set of 35s I received was perfect.. a nice matte black with great texture and no issues. All the other pairs were pretty disappointing.. ESPECIALLY for the price paid. Rogue did offer small discounts, but otherwise just said it was just "cosmetic." Kinda lame when spending that much.
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    Originally Posted by thejosef View Post
    Not trying to pile on Rogue here, as probably 80% of gym is Rogue, but I recently ordered 4 pairs of their urethane dumbbells and all but one set had issues. I ended up selling them all and moving on. Most of the ones I received had very shiny, slick finishes with bubbles in the urethane. The set of 35s I received was perfect.. a nice matte black with great texture and no issues. All the other pairs were pretty disappointing.. ESPECIALLY for the price paid. Rogue did offer small discounts, but otherwise just said it was just "cosmetic." Kinda lame when spending that much.
    There have been a few complaints here about inconsistent knurling on Rogue's DBs also. I don't know who is making these for Rogue, but they should find a new supplier.
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    Originally Posted by MGM711 View Post
    Honestly, I'd be shocked if either Infinity or R series racking is their top selling, in fact, I would say almost with 100% certainty that it's either RM or RML lines. The reality is that 2x3 just doesn't make a lot of sense being that the cost of 3x3 compared to 2x3 really isn't much different now, so 3x3 is just becoming industry standard. I actually am more surprised that it took them this long to phase out the 2x3 setups.

    I don’t get 3 x 3. You lose clearance on the outside, and really 2 x 3 is sufficient. Heck my 2 x 2 rack is enough.
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    Originally Posted by bean438 View Post
    I don’t get 3 x 3. You lose clearance on the outside, and really 2 x 3 is sufficient. Heck my 2 x 2 rack is enough.
    There's less lateral sway on the square uprights, so despite losing clearance I still prefer 3x3 over 2x3. 2x2 would be fine, but not an option with most makers.
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    Originally Posted by Duplicitous View Post
    There's less lateral sway on the square uprights, so despite losing clearance I still prefer 3x3 over 2x3. 2x2 would be fine, but not an option with most makers.
    I totally agree. I’m on the other end as my Hammer Strength Slotted rack is a 3x3 plus the 7 gauge wrap around slotted piece. It has absolutely no lateral sway but accessories are near impossible without going custom fabricated. Waaaay more rack than I need but I feel safe in there. Got a ridiculous Craigslist deal

    I wouldn’t recommend a 2x2 rack but to each his own
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    Originally Posted by bean438 View Post
    I don’t get 3 x 3. You lose clearance on the outside, and really 2 x 3 is sufficient. Heck my 2 x 2 rack is enough.
    2x2 is plenty rack for anyone, but the reality is that the cost of 3x3 and 2x3 is about the same, so why not go with 3x3 instead, there's nothing better about 2x3 to not go 3x3. Rack width clearance is more about total width of the rack than the post itself, you can have a 4x4 rack with good clearance with narrower crossmembers. The only real reason I can see why they pushed the 2x3 configuration in the first place was the stupid Westside hole spacing, that was really the only reason to ever go 2x3.
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    Kind of a bummer to me. I was planning on getting a 2x3 Rogue rack as my next one. It's the clearance issue. I want that extra 2" to feel safe.
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    Originally Posted by Squeebo View Post
    Kind of a bummer to me. I was planning on getting a 2x3 Rogue rack as my next one. It's the clearance issue. I want that extra 2" to feel safe.
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