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  1. #1
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Helms-inspired 5-day full body routine

    I've been reading the 3DMJ pyramid books and came up with a routine for myself. It's designed for me to do at home, so it only uses a barbell, dumbbells and chin up bar - otherwise I'd have a leg press and leg curl in there. Volume is a bit of an increase compared to what I've done to date, but should be manageable. Keen to know if anyone can see any glaring errors or areas for improvement.

    DAY 1
    Bench 4 x 3-5
    Row 4 x 4-6
    Triceps 3 x 12-15*
    Calf raises 3 x 12-15*

    DAY 2
    Squat 4 x 3-5
    RDL 3 x 6-8
    Pull Ups 3 x 6-8*
    Biceps 3 x 8-12*

    REST

    DAY 3
    OHP 4 x 5-7
    Push Ups 4 x AMRAP*
    Leg Curls 3 x 15-20*
    Neck work 3 x 15-20*

    DAY 4
    Chin Up 4 x 6-8
    Close grip bench 3 x 8-12
    Single leg 3 x 6-8*
    Lateral raises 3 x 12-15*

    DAY 5
    Deadlift 4 x 3-5
    Front squat 3 x 6-8
    DB rows 3 x 8-12*
    Calf raises 3 x 15-20*

    Deload every 4 weeks. On deload weeks, do 2 sets of all exercises at the lower end of rep range with the weight reduced by 10%.

    Use wave loading progression for main lifts
    use double progression for accessory lifts marked with a *

    All lifts are performed to a 1st set RPE of 8.
    Last edited by RapidFail; 04-05-2021 at 05:24 PM.
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  2. #2
    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    Looks fun I guess, if the lifts suit your goal and you have the work capacity to handle it.

    Only thing is neck curls.. It trade for neck EXTENSIONS.
    Much better Imo. Sleep apnea sucks
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  3. #3
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    Looks fun I guess, if the lifts suit your goal and you have the work capacity to handle it.

    Only thing is neck curls.. It trade for neck EXTENSIONS.
    Much better Imo. Sleep apnea sucks
    I tend to alternate between the two and sometimes do both for a mesocycle. My neck is only 14 inches, so I don't think I'm anywhere near risking sleep apnea.

    Work capacity should be OK, though Day 2 could be a bit of a challenge. Main thing for me is spreading out the leg training so that every session is enjoyable. I've done an UL routine before and always dreaded the Lower days.
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    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    I don’t understand the point in neck exercises....

    Mine gets enough work just keeping my big ass head erect all day.
    Age: 28
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    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    Looks good, well balanced. I'd swap step-ups for walking lunges, and add core work, either isometric (planks, birddogs, deadbugs, ab wheel) or kettlebell.

    Not sure about neck work, but if it fits your goals then ok.

    Deload when you need it, not necessary to deload every 4 weeks like clockwork IMO.
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  6. #6
    Registered User paulinkansas's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    I don’t understand the point in neck exercises....

    Mine gets enough work just keeping my big ass head erect all day.
    You stay erect all day?
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    Registered User Filmbuff81's Avatar
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    You really should do a leg curl though for proper development.

    Use a band, do those coasters ones, or rig a diy Nordic ham curl.

    Dumbbell between your feet as you lay in your stomach.

    You’ll miss out on full development of the hamstring otherwise.

    Some band pullaparts or rear delt raises would be beneficial too.
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    You stay erect all day?
    Imagine having to attend a funeral
    "The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization." -Sigmund Freud
    "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." -Leonardo da Vinci
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  9. #9
    Registered User leidenesLK's Avatar
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    This seems really inefficient if I’m being honest. Only 10 sets for quads, chest etc is a bad deal when asked to train 5 days. Also, there are muscle groups missing from each day, so it’s not actually 5 day fb. Frequency is actually at 3x/wk for most muscle groups. This could easily be reworked into a 3 day fb or 4 day u/l giving better use of your time.

    I’ve noticed people are getting a little frequency crazed lately with 4-5x/wk stuff, which is all well and good, but you start to see compromises in the design to make it work, which essentially leaves the status quo the same or for worse.
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  10. #10
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paulinkansas View Post
    You stay erect all day?
    Postural awareness and all that.

    I dress to the left in case anyone is wondering.
    Age: 28
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  11. #11
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Not sure about the deload style or every 4 weeks unless you are sure your time to peak is 3 weeks
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  12. #12
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies - this is exactly what I wanted, as the program is by no means a finished article. I'm stupid and can't figure out how to quote multiple posts, so...
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  13. #13
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    I don’t understand the point in neck exercises....

    Mine gets enough work just keeping my big ass head erect all day.
    See Jeff Nippard before and after neck training - it can make a big aesthetic difference. Mine is naturally long which makes it look skinnier than it already is.
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  14. #14
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    Looks good, well balanced. I'd swap step-ups for walking lunges, and add core work, either isometric (planks, birddogs, deadbugs, ab wheel) or kettlebell.

    Not sure about neck work, but if it fits your goals then ok.

    Deload when you need it, not necessary to deload every 4 weeks like clockwork IMO.
    Single-leg exercise will be rotated,, might do Bulgarian Split Squats too. I may add in some ab work. See previous post regarding neck work. The deload protocol is taken from the intermediate bodybuilding program in the book - probably overkill, I agree. My work is moderately physical and my sleep a little less than ideal (I have two young children) so going a little overboard on recovery is probably better than not enough. I deload every 5 weeks with my current program, but that is lower volume.
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  15. #15
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Filmbuff81 View Post
    You really should do a leg curl though for proper development.

    Use a band, do those coasters ones, or rig a diy Nordic ham curl.

    Dumbbell between your feet as you lay in your stomach.

    You’ll miss out on full development of the hamstring otherwise.

    Some band pullaparts or rear delt raises would be beneficial too.
    I've tried the dumbbell leg curl and can't get it to work..All of the effort goes into gripping the dumbbell between my feet. I could try with a band and do them in place of the good mornings.
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  16. #16
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    This seems really inefficient if I’m being honest. Only 10 sets for quads, chest etc is a bad deal when asked to train 5 days. Also, there are muscle groups missing from each day, so it’s not actually 5 day fb. Frequency is actually at 3x/wk for most muscle groups. This could easily be reworked into a 3 day fb or 4 day u/l giving better use of your time.

    I’ve noticed people are getting a little frequency crazed lately with 4-5x/wk stuff, which is all well and good, but you start to see compromises in the design to make it work, which essentially leaves the status quo the same or for worse.
    It's full body in the same way that Helms and Nippard talk about it. Perhaps it's better described as 'most body' - I'm not trying to hit every muscle every day.

    I like to keep my training sessions capped at 50 minutes, so more days and shorter sessions is my preference. This is higher volume than my current (4 day) program) and my quads and chest grow fine with less volume.
    Last edited by RapidFail; 03-06-2021 at 04:35 AM.
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  17. #17
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    See Jeff Nippard before and after neck training - it can make a big aesthetic difference. Mine is naturally long which makes it look skinnier than it already is.
    Before and after cycle you mean?
    Age: 28
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  18. #18
    Registered User leidenesLK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    It's full body in the same way that Helms and Nippard talk about it. Perhaps it's better described as 'most body' - I'm not trying to hit very muscle every day.

    I like to keep my training sessions capped at 50 minutes, so more days and shorter sessions is my preference. This is higher volume than my current (4 day) program) and my quads and chest grow fine with less volume.
    That’s fair. I guess it’s just not my thing. The exercise selection and balance looks pretty good, so it’s worth a shot.
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    Registered User Filmbuff81's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    I've tried the dumbbell leg curl and can't get it to work..All of the effort goes into gripping the dumbbell between my feet. I could try with a band and do them in place of the good mornings.
    Band will light them up.

    You can do seated or standing
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  20. #20
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Filmbuff81 View Post
    Band will light them up.

    You can do seated or standing
    +1 for seated band
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  21. #21
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Filmbuff81 View Post
    Band will light them up.

    You can do seated or standing
    OR lying?
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    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    This seems really inefficient if I’m being honest. Only 10 sets for quads, chest etc is a bad deal when asked to train 5 days. Also, there are muscle groups missing from each day, so it’s not actually 5 day fb. Frequency is actually at 3x/wk for most muscle groups. This could easily be reworked into a 3 day fb or 4 day u/l giving better use of your time.

    I’ve noticed people are getting a little frequency crazed lately with 4-5x/wk stuff, which is all well and good, but you start to see compromises in the design to make it work, which essentially leaves the status quo the same or for worse.
    You are 100 % correct. However it’s not terrible for someone who enjoys that type of training. It’s also better than the other extreme style of training (low frequency bro split, 1 body part per day). So yeah, it could be worse lol
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    Registered User leidenesLK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    You are 100 % correct. However it’s not terrible for someone who enjoys that type of training. It’s also better than the other extreme style of training (low frequency bro split, 1 body part per day). So yeah, it could be worse lol
    Absolutely. Not implying it’s bad at all, especially if someone enjoys it. The frequency, exercise selection, balance, progression is solid. Volume is on the low end, but that could easily be increased without affecting the setup if need be. My only point was that everything written in the OP could be achieved with greater efficiency. Ultimately, it’s a personal gripe.
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    Believe me, I would love to have the luxury of spending 90 minutes working out, but it just doesn't fit into my life. I typically train from 5:30 to 6:15am, if I'm lucky both of my daughters are still asleep then, if not, I am changing nappies and making their breakfasts in between sets. After work I am just too damn tired to train.
    Last edited by RapidFail; 03-04-2021 at 06:00 PM.
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    OP edited to reflect some suggested changes. Rep range for leg curls is not set in stone - depends on the bands I get, but I imagine they will probably be higher rep.
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    OR lying?
    Hahah true you can.

    I find bands awkward for stuff like that because of needing to adjust the position for optimal tension.
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    Originally Posted by Filmbuff81 View Post
    Hahah true you can.

    I find bands awkward for stuff like that because of needing to adjust the position for optimal tension.
    There's also the gliding leg curl for knee flexion.

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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    There's also the gliding leg curl for knee flexion.

    That’s a good one.

    I have a plate loaded lying leg curl now so I just use that, but this would’ve been good back in the day dang.
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    For leg curls, I like to hang a band from the pullup bar, lie on my back, put my heel into the band. I do one leg at a time otherwise I keep lifting my butt off the ground.
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    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    This seems really inefficient if I’m being honest. Only 10 sets for quads, chest etc is a bad deal when asked to train 5 days. Also, there are muscle groups missing from each day, so it’s not actually 5 day fb. Frequency is actually at 3x/wk for most muscle groups. This could easily be reworked into a 3 day fb or 4 day u/l giving better use of your time.

    I’ve noticed people are getting a little frequency crazed lately with 4-5x/wk stuff, which is all well and good, but you start to see compromises in the design to make it work, which essentially leaves the status quo the same or for worse.
    I believe Eric Helms addresses this in a podcast. Full body doesn't necessarily mean you train every single body part on that day. I mean you got triceps, biceps, quads, hams, chest, back, calves, shoulders, etc. It would be kind of difficult, if not perhaps a bit inefficient to train all of these in one session. SO perhaps you focus on a few muscle groups or movements. For example on day 1 you do chest, quads, biceps, calves, day 2 you do back, hamstrings, triceps, lateral delts, or however you want to split it. Full body is moreso used in the context that you train both your upper and lower body on the same day. I think Suffolk likes to cycle body parts, you could basically do it that way but I'd still consider it "full body", but concentrating on a few different muscles on that day.

    Don't really see much of a problem splitting it the way he has, I'd agree splitting for the sake of splitting is meh and could probably be worked into 3-4 days. But sometimes trying some different, or if it fits best within a general lifestyle/situation is better. I personally like a 4x full body but I also have strength related goals as well. I always do some horizontal press variation on each of those days, a squat variation on 3 out of the 4 days and a deadlift variation on 2 of the four days. so I guess you could say it's split based on movements as well. just plug in and play
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