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  1. #1
    Don't panic Skwidward's Avatar
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    National service

    How do you guys feel about mandatory National service?

    For 2 years, after graduating/dropping out of high school

    Of course, if you’re a pacifist, you do some kinda public health, hospital, that kinda thing instead.
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    As long as there is an option for ppl who don't want to get involved in war, IMO it is fine. It kind of bs though because it is a kind of forced labor.
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    Yea I think that should be a thing, along with a boot camp regardless if you go the pussy route (like the poster above)
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    Originally Posted by Skwidward View Post
    How do you guys feel about mandatory National service?

    For 2 years, after graduating/dropping out of high school

    Of course, if you’re a pacifist, you do some kinda public health, hospital, that kinda thing instead.
    Define “national service.”
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    Stop or I shoot. dakensta's Avatar
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    Sounds kinda commie TBH.
    I ain't no consarned religious fool, or such.

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    Could be military, could be paving roads and helping repair bridges, could be planting trees, or Habitat for Humanity, etc etc.
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    📶 🔌🔋 99% LukeLissen's Avatar
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    No.

    I've delved into this topic when it was discussed numerous times at Arfcom over the years and every single time the overwhelming voice by those who are currently serving and vets who have served in the past is that compulsory service is an extremely bad idea.

    I will take their collective opinion on it as my own. No.
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    I think some type of civil service would be good. Even if its just planting trees like back under FDR. These freaking libs have never worked a day of hard labor ever.
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    Don't panic Skwidward's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    No.

    I've delved into this topic when it was discussed numerous times at Arfcom over the years and every single time the overwhelming voice by those who are currently serving and vets who have served in the past is that compulsory service is an extremely bad idea.

    I will take their collective opinion on it as my own. No.
    Did any of them give their rationale?
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    📶 🔌🔋 99% LukeLissen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Skwidward View Post
    Did any of them give their rationale?
    Yes. a long list of them

    To sum it up in a nutshell: They intimately understand that in a free country only those who want to serve and who voluntarily enlist to do so should be serving. They understand that those who voluntarily serve do so among their own pleasure and do not want to be diluted and polluted among those who are forced into doing what they voluntarily choose to do. They don't want to have to deal with the BS of those who don't want to be among them doing what they do.

    I understand the rationale for thinking compulsory service might be a good idea; but after hearing from these men about it over the past 20 years I can tell you that it's a bad idea.

    I'm currently studying the Vietnam War. There were many mistakes made during the Vietnam War but the draft was probably the single biggest one of all.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Skwidward View Post
    Did any of them give their rationale?
    From the very brief conversations I've had on the subject, they don't want to deal with the kind of half-assed dickheads who would be a tremendous time sink vs. the relatively smarter, fitter and most importantly motivated recruits who volunteer. Essentially the armed forces would have to spend a lot of resources to act as a permanent baby-sitting operation for millions of kidults.
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  12. #12
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    Good idea generally, but it wouldn't work in America. We no longer have a cohesive country. You'd need united states/races/etc.
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    The way it was a long time ago, yes. The way things are now? No.

    What would happen now is that it would be set up so that all the whiners could figure a way out of it, and the only people who would actually serve are those who already make things happen.
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    what does it matter at this point?

    every single institution is run by woke neoliberals

    it will just be the same brainwashing as university
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    Yes. a long list of them

    To sum it up in a nutshell: They intimately understand that in a free country only those who want to serve and who voluntarily enlist to do so should be serving. They understand that those who voluntarily serve do so among their own pleasure and do not want to be diluted and polluted among those who are forced into doing what they voluntarily choose to do. They don't want to have to deal with the BS of those who don't want to be among them doing what they do.

    I understand the rationale for thinking compulsory service might be a good idea; but after hearing from these men about it over the past 20 years I can tell you that it's a bad idea.

    I'm currently studying the Vietnam War. There were many mistakes made during the Vietnam War but the draft was probably the single biggest one of all.
    Fair argument.

    What about compulsory community service? Not necessarily military.
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    There is no way the government would be competent enough to make this an effective program so I'm against it.

    People love to cite things like the WPA, and sure-- if we were in the middle of an economic depression and massive unemployement was a real problem, it would make sense to allocate almost 10% of the federal budget to get people back to work.

    But massive economic depression and major joblessness aren't issues and these programs would be outrageously expensive and I guarantee that they would never make their money back, so in my opinion you'd end up having woke state department officials making your two-year service commitment something completely counterproductive and it would just add two more years in the public sector Marxist indoctrination gauntlet that young people are put through at the expense of the American taxpayer.
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    Yes, forcing young people off to potential wars and death because of the decisions of incompetent politicians and businessmen (Who will always find a way to keep their children out) sounds like a marvelous idea!













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    I'm on the fence about it. I think it's a great idea that would benefit society greatly, but at the same time I feel that the government forcing this on people is a huge violation of freedom.
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    Originally Posted by Phil9 View Post
    Yes, forcing young people off to potential wars and death because of the decisions of incompetent politicians and businessmen (Who will always find a way to keep their children out) sounds like a marvelous idea!
    This, if there is a good enough reason to fight you'll have fighters. With that we should constantly work on force multipliers so that our human exposure during conflict is as little as possible.
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    Fair argument.

    What about compulsory community service? Not necessarily military.
    I can see the same argument being as relevant

    As a healthcare worker, I see enough of that laziness attitude seeping in thanks to “the cover” provided by COVID
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    Originally Posted by Skwidward View Post
    I can see the same argument being as relevant

    As a healthcare worker, I see enough of that laziness attitude seeping in thanks to “the cover” provided by COVID
    could be something as simple as park cleanup
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    No.
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    Originally Posted by JoshSP1985 View Post
    This, if there is a good enough reason to fight you'll have fighters. With that we should constantly work on force multipliers so that our human exposure during conflict is as little as possible.
    The joke of it all is that war between nations is supposed to have ended. But people are too stupid to understand. We did multiply the force. There exist nuclear weapons. But everyone won't use them because they know what would happen. So this effectively reset the board as if they don't exist. We are so petty and ridiculous as a species. People will sit there and create rules to justify how they should murder each other when a single button can end any conflict and anything worth fighting for forever. They already did create a "force multiplier". It's been done. To the extreme. The rest of this is just a charade to employ people in the defense and military sectors. It's a multitrillion dollar waste of time.

    Nothing you do as an American soldier actually matters, aside from those who man nuclear armed facilities ready to strike. Literally everything else has zero to do with defense and everything to do with offense. It's pretty ridiculous when you take a step back.

    I mean really. Carry the logic to its conclusion. The US engages in a war with some nuclear powered country like China. Fighting gets intense. Imagine neither side wishes to surrender. Well...what happens when things escalate? What is the conclusion? Nuclear weapons will end such a conflict at some point. They will be used, and the entire ground war will have been a pointless farce.

    The vast majority of those employed in our military have absolutely nothing to do with fighting for "our freedom" and keeping America safe. They are hired welfare queen goons for Raytheon, Lockheed, Northrup Grumman, Boeing, and General Dynamics.

    The US military is literally a "too big to fail" socialist organization, the largest polluter on the planet as an organization, the greatest threat to human civilization, and also the largest waste of money in human history.
    Last edited by wincel; 03-01-2021 at 06:46 AM.
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    could be something as simple as park cleanup
    True

    I always believed part of the argument for national service (military) was to stoke interest in your country and its place in the world

    Kinda like, you’re more likely to vote and take it seriously given that you’re gonna be forced to go to war

    I can see the argument of regular troops not wanting forced recruits fighting/working along side them

    If I was in charge, I would definitely want most to revere the military/the flag/etc. and volunteer than to have a nation turning on me and bucking a mandatory draft for all

    Propaganda FTW
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    Forced servitude. An idea any Progressive/Authoritarian would love.
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    So you're advocating for slavery but it's sugar coated with patriotism and love for one's country? Yeah I'll pass. I'd rather die than see myself work for free.
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    Originally Posted by Skwidward View Post
    True

    I always believed part of the argument for national service (military) was to stoke interest in your country and its place in the world

    Kinda like, you’re more likely to vote and take it seriously given that you’re gonna be forced to go to war

    I can see the argument of regular troops not wanting forced recruits fighting/working along side them

    If I was in charge, I would definitely want most to revere the military/the flag/etc. and volunteer than to have a nation turning on me and bucking a mandatory draft for all

    Propaganda FTW
    The thing is it would never work here. America is just a ragtag group of selfish asshoels who just want to make money. There is no unifying culture. Our nation is actually a myth. It's a bunch of competing interests with no unified vision at all. When people here claim to be patriots, they are talking about their side. They don't care about the other side. I see your average gun toting redneck Trumper as honestly as much of a threat to my way of life and how I want the country to be as an Islamic radical. In fact, I am not surrounded by Islamic radicals trying to kill me and destroy my government. But I am surrounded by Trumpers.

    This country basically only exists to me on paper. I have never felt such hatred, disgust, and disdain for my own countrymen as I have in these recent years. I used to care and feel something when I saw our flag. Now, it's just a fuking joke to me. I realize I was just brainwashed. My dad has a flag that was flown over the US Senate. Our relative here gave it to him as a gift when he became a citizen. My dad treasured it. His citizenship meant so much to him. And he was a Republican, duped into believing their lies about personal liberty and meritocracy. What a fuking joke. You know what? That flag just sits there in a case. We don't have a flag in front of our house, and I can't remember the last time I pledged allegiance to the flag. I think it was at some point during the Obama administration before Libya. And that was just because I hadn't internally processed the realities of our foreign policy for the last 60 years. I am not proud to be an American anymore. This country is a fuking joke.

    I wish I lived in the country America claims to be -- a meritocracy, with individual liberty, equality, peace, and justice for all. I wish I could look at these people and say "let's set aside our differences and discuss the best way to carry forward" where we argue using the two pillars of thought, science and reason, to create a more perfect and prosperous union. I wish we lived in a country where you could really make it if you tried hard enough and where everyone had a fair shot and everyone had dignity in their labor. I wish we didn't have a country of uneducated sexual degenerates and drug addicts and criminals.

    But we can't have those reasonable arguments. Because there is no reasoning with these insane jackasses. I don't want to help them. I bitterly hate them with every fiber of my being. And it's sad because 10 years ago I would have called them my fuking people.
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    The thing is it would never work here. America is just a ragtag group of selfish asshoels who just want to make money. There is no unifying culture. Our nation is actually a myth. It's a bunch of competing interests with no unified vision at all. When people here claim to be patriots, they are talking about their side. They don't care about the other side. I see your average gun toting redneck Trumper as honestly as much of a threat to my way of life and how I want the country to be as an Islamic radical. In fact, I am not surrounded by Islamic radicals trying to kill me and destroy my government. But I am surrounded by Trumpers.

    This country basically only exists to me on paper. I have never felt such hatred, disgust, and disdain for my own countrymen as I have in these recent years. I used to care and feel something when I saw our flag. Now, it's just a fuking joke to me. I realize I was just brainwashed. My dad has a flag that was flown over the US Senate. Our relative here gave it to him as a gift when he became a citizen. My dad treasured it. His citizenship meant so much to him. And he was a Republican, duped into believing their lies about personal liberty and meritocracy. What a fuking joke. You know what? That flag just sits there in a case. We don't have a flag in front of our house, and I can't remember the last time I pledged allegiance to the flag. I think it was at some point during the Obama administration before Libya. And that was just because I hadn't internally processed the realities of our foreign policy for the last 60 years. I am not proud to be an American anymore. This country is a fuking joke.

    I wish I lived in the country America claims to be -- a meritocracy, with individual liberty, equality, peace, and justice for all. I wish I could look at these people and say "let's set aside our differences and discuss the best way to carry forward" where we argue using the two pillars of thought, science and reason, to create a more perfect and prosperous union. I wish we lived in a country where you could really make it if you tried hard enough and where everyone had a fair shot and everyone had dignity in their labor. I wish we didn't have a country of uneducated sexual degenerates and drug addicts and criminals.

    But we can't have those reasonable arguments. Because there is no reasoning with these insane jackasses. I don't want to help them. I bitterly hate them with every fiber of my being. And it's sad because 10 years ago I would have called them my fuking people.
    America has always been a ragtag group of selfish arseholes. That's what made America what it is today. It was supposed to be a safe haven for groups that were persecuted and or poor in the Old World. America was never about a common culture and or a communalistic society. We tried the Communalistic experiment in Europe. It failed and more than 100 million people died in the name of "Equality, Peace and Liberty".

    You think California became what it was because it gave a fuark about their next door neighbor? No. It became what it was because greedy fuarkers wanted to make a quick buck from the gold rush. This is what you and your Socialist Ilk don't understand. You think Texas became what it was because people wanted to sit around a bonfire and sing cumbaya? No it became what it was thanks to greedy fuarkers who wanted a share of the "Black" gold. The American Flag is simply a representation of what America really is. It's a ragtag group of States with individual interests competing against each other but they will unite if threatened by an outside force. This is the case with the average American citizen. They hate each other to the core but god forbid someone kills one of them and all hell breaks loose. The middle east got a taste of that unity after 9/11.

    You can do anything you want in America. Everything you just said is pure propaganda and buzzwords used by Socialist phaggots to pander to the lowest echelons of society. You can prosper and live a happy life. You can freely change states and live among communities that share your values. You can still work your way to the top. You can work a decent job and invest your money for the future. You can buy real estate for reasonably cheap in many areas. You get to be left alone. Wages are going up, home ownership is going up and the quality of life is going up. It only started falling thanks to phaggots like you that shut everything down because people starting coughing a bit too much. You're the reason why millions of Americans will be evicted once the pandemic runs its course. You're the reason the American dollar will have lost its value because you wanted a Stimi check. Save your crocodile tears and buzzterms for yourself. Millions of people were joining the middle class and buying their first homes before you locked everything down.

    Also lolled at dignity in their labor. Labor was never meant to be dignifying. It was meant to be a service you offered to someone in order to feed your family. Of course you get zero pleasure out of it. You don't have mouths to feed. You don't have that feeling of satisfaction seeing your kids go through college thanks to your hard work. Hence why you subscribe to the Marxist notion of dignity in labor.

    The world was meant to be selfish. Some people need to suffer in order for some people to live a life of luxury. You might hate it but be thankful that it's not you suffering. Also quit using "reason" and "science" as if those things are inherently good. Science was for Euthanasia not long ago. It only changed because people they deemed unreasonable challenged them. It was deemed reasonable to beat your wife not long ago. Thanks to so-called "unreasonable" folks we don't do that anymore. So you can take your fake "philosopher" attitude outta here and leave it where it belongs: The trash.
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    Yea, **** that.

    I do however think we should have a national program, like we have had in the past, where young people can help build (repair) highways, national parks, etc., while getting paid and learning skills.
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    Originally Posted by rhadam View Post
    Define “national service.”
    Paying people not to murder each other....
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