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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    As a European, the NCAA and NFL contract system seems to screw over young athletes

    My primary sport is football (soccer). These contracts are fully guaranteed for the most part, but more importantly they are free to negotiate a market rate salary as soon as they hit legal working age (16).


    Contract this with the NFL, you have to give up at least 3 years for free and then even after that you have 4, sometimes 5 years of playing below market rate. Take Cooper Kupp for example, he is only getting paid properly from next season when he is 28 years of age. Its only a matter of time before we see a running back hit Pro Bowl form coming into the NFL, only to get a career ending injury in his 4th year and end up with only a few mil career earnings.

    Kind of ironic how the most capitalist, free market believing country in the world has this system




    Would you guys want to change any of this? The new rookie wage scale system is a definitely a positive in creating parity in the league, but its way below market rate especially for break out players. Surely there should at least be some kind of incentive based system for these guys to get bonuses for stats, Pro Bowls or All Pros? Even if these figures didnt count against the cap
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    At least they have something. Most schools in the UK never even had a weight toom whenn I was a kid. There's far less opportunity to do sports than in the US and Eastern Europe, even Japan chits on us. And the transfer window makes it hard for poorer football clubs to do business because they need to scrimp, have a limited time frame and the players value can drastically change from window to window.
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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MilkforBrains View Post
    At least they have something. Most schools in the UK never even had a weight toom whenn I was a kid. There's far less opportunity to do sports than in the US and Eastern Europe, even Japan chits on us.
    England alone has 92 professional soccer teams for a population of 55million people, they have longer careers than the NFL as well

    You're more likely to make it as a pro athlete in the UK, although there is less money at the top
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    England alone has 92 professional soccer teams for a population of 55million people, they have longer careers than the NFL as well

    You're more likely to make it as a pro athlete in the UK, although there is less money at the top
    And? Unless you start football at 5, the chances of you making it are near zero. Even if you are a studly athlete, if you can't actually play with the ball you will never make it.

    Aside from football there is next to nothing.
    How many players are in a squad? 24? 24x92 is still **** awl.
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    The problem is the NFLPA handles the negotiations with the NFL regarding contracts and money. But the youngest players aren't members of the NFLPA until they actually enter the league, so theres no urgent requirement to address these issues when the players acting on behalf of all are mostly vets.
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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HockeyBacon18 View Post
    The problem is the NFLPA handles the negotiations with the NFL regarding contracts and money. But the youngest players aren't members of the NFLPA until they actually enter the league, so theres no urgent requirement to address these issues when the players acting on behalf of all are mostly vets.
    Thats a good point, clearly a conflict of interest there. I know some older guys are quite vocal about the exploitation particularly in the college level though, Arian Foster on Joe Rogan podcast was interesting


    Its also the league structure though, theres one 32 team league, and they set the draft criteria etc. European sports have mutltiple leagues in every country so no opportunity for a monopoly.

    The NBA only calls for 1 year of eligibility and now more and more guys are going abroad, the NFL/NCAA only get away with it because thats the only route athletes have
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    Registered User Phil9's Avatar
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    NCAA and “amateur sports” has been a scam for decades now for actual competitive athletes trying to make it a living. No real hope for football players since there isn’t much of a market for it outside of the U.S. and somewhat Canada. With baseball/basketball, you have far more options.


    I can understand the logic of not directly paying college athletes but watching coaches make millions a year while a student can’t even benefit off their own name is the epitome of absurdity.
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    Originally Posted by Phil9 View Post
    NCAA and “amateur sports” has been a scam for decades now for actual competitive athletes trying to make it a living. No real hope for football players since there isn’t much of a market for it outside of the U.S. and somewhat Canada. With baseball/basketball, you have far more options.


    I can understand the logic of not directly paying college athletes but watching coaches make millions a year while a student can’t even benefit off their own name is the epitome of absurdity.
    Agreed with that. I've always thought a good compromise would be to allow guys to use their likeness to make money if they are capable. If you just "pay" student athletes there isn't going to be a lot of money to go around since only two sports (football and men's basketball) turn a profit. There is part of me that wishes people would make a big enough deal to get rid of college sports because I know so many people who base their entire identity off of the football team loosely affiliated with the college they attended and it would be fun to see them lose that.

    To respond to the OP: I get where you are coming from, american football players do generally get a raw deal if they are a stand out player within their first contract when the average career is like three years or something. On the other hand, the NFL and the owners have created an environment where a guy who can chase a ball can make more money than the vast majority of humans in recorded history. Like you said, not many people consume the NFL relative to say EPL football. The NFL is basically a hundred year story of brilliant marketing.
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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    Would appreciate it if you guys awared me on where the college football money "goes"


    TV networks, the NCAA, colleges themselves, or a mix of these?


    and do the colleges just blow the money on facilities, coaches, recruiters etc or are there some fat cats that milk the system?
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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    I know the NCAA is a not for profit btw


    But for example Roger Goddell makes $50m per year, while the Premier League (soccers biggest league) gets £500k salary. Im guessing there might be some overpaid dudes in NCAA skimming off the top
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    I know the NCAA is a not for profit btw


    But for example Roger Goddell makes $50m per year, while the Premier League (soccers biggest league) gets £500k salary. Im guessing there might be some overpaid dudes in NCAA skimming off the top
    Goodell runs one of the biggest businesses in the world, but $50M definitely is absurd. NCAA IS for profit. Everything about college, from academics to athletics, is done to make money. LSU's athletic director makes $1.5M. OSU's AD makes $6M, USC AD $1M, Florida AD $1.076M, etc. The people high up in college programs don't really need to skim off the top.
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    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lunatic View Post
    Goodell runs one of the biggest businesses in the world, but $50M definitely is absurd. NCAA IS for profit. Everything about college, from academics to athletics, is done to make money. LSU's athletic director makes $1.5M. OSU's AD makes $6M, USC AD $1M, Florida AD $1.076M, etc. The people high up in college programs don't really need to skim off the top.
    Thanks

    Officially they are a "not for profit", guess this page is full of BS

    https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/finances
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Thanks

    Officially they are a "not for profit", guess this page is full of BS

    https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/finances
    Are you really surprised? There's a reason everything is so damn expensive when related to college. Something as essential as textbooks are extremely expensive, the prices for food and drinks during games are ludicrous, and tuition and fees are just retarded. My college had very high cheerleading fees that was included in every student's tuition. Look at the prices a couple decades ago and compare them today. I started college in 2006, graduated in 2017, and in that time saw the price almost triple. NCAA is definitely for profit.
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    Originally Posted by Lunatic View Post
    Are you really surprised? There's a reason everything is so damn expensive when related to college. Something as essential as textbooks are extremely expensive, the prices for food and drinks during games are ludicrous, and tuition and fees are just retarded. My college had very high cheerleading fees that was included in every student's tuition. Look at the prices a couple decades ago and compare them today. I started college in 2006, graduated in 2017, and in that time saw the price almost triple. NCAA is definitely for profit.
    Hey OP. Pretty piss poor critical thinking on your part. They aren't playing for free for 4 years, they're playing for free tuition/meals/housing which easily adds up to a couple hundred thousand over the course of 4 years. And the ultimate reward is the opportunity to get drafted and make 6-8 figures. I went to hs with a guy who played on the Broncos super bowl team with Peyton. He was on the practice squad but was still cut a solid $12k/week during the regular season. That's $200k before taxes for 17 weeks of work. It's also an entirely voluntary transaction... nobody is forcing these kids to play. That being said, I do think a livable stipend for them is reasonable. I researched this in college and it's crazy when you hear about some Alabama football players too poor to afford a plane or train ticket home for the holiday and the University isn't allowed to pay for it but Saban is rolling around Tuscaloosa in a red Bentley. They do not have time to have a job for their own side income.

    The football programs at most power 5 schools probably fund every other sport that's a negative net loss on the balance sheet as well... but I believe the trend is that kids that play football come from poor backgrounds, and families that are better off and hesitant to let their kids play football... understandably so. You can make a lot of money in any sport, but few possess the risk that football does. I don't think it's a perfect system.
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    Originally Posted by DeputyDong5 View Post
    Hey OP. Pretty piss poor critical thinking on your part. They aren't playing for free for 4 years, they're playing for free tuition/meals/housing which easily adds up to a couple hundred thousand over the course of 4 years. And the ultimate reward is the opportunity to get drafted and make 6-8 figures. I went to hs with a guy who played on the Broncos super bowl team with Peyton. He was on the practice squad but was still cut a solid $12k/week during the regular season. That's $200k before taxes for 17 weeks of work. It's also an entirely voluntary transaction... nobody is forcing these kids to play. That being said, I do think a livable stipend for them is reasonable. I researched this in college and it's crazy when you hear about some Alabama football players too poor to afford a plane or train ticket home for the holiday and the University isn't allowed to pay for it but Saban is rolling around Tuscaloosa in a red Bentley. They do not have time to have a job for their own side income.

    The football programs at most power 5 schools probably fund every other sport that's a negative net loss on the balance sheet as well... but I believe the trend is that kids that play football come from poor backgrounds, and families that are better off and hesitant to let their kids play football... understandably so. You can make a lot of money in any sport, but few possess the risk that football does. I don't think it's a perfect system.
    It sounds like a good deal for those that will never make the league, but the elite athletes are getting exploited

    Its basically that the star football players are bringing in $billions to allow people to get scholarships in other sports and crap


    This is the most capitalist nation on earth and yet you have to play a minimum of 7 years for free and then at a discount to be allowed to negotiate a fair market value price for your labour
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    It sounds like a good deal for those that will never make the league, but the elite athletes are getting exploited

    Its basically that the star football players are bringing in $billions to allow people to get scholarships in other sports and crap


    This is the most capitalist nation on earth and yet you have to play a minimum of 7 years for free and then at a discount to be allowed to negotiate a fair market value price for your labour
    While many athletes that would've never gone to college are able to because of their talent, it doesn't change that it's all for profit. The players that don't make it professionally are giving free advertising to the universities. Many of these universities couldn't care less that the "student-athletes" don't take academics seriously because they're ultimately making them tons of money. Universities have gotten into trouble for giving athletes free grades.

    It's not just the star athletes that bring in crazy amounts of money.

    The meal plans are laughable, and there are many stories that support this. Look at Arian Foster when he was at Tennessee. He's on record saying that his head coach would sometimes go out and buy his players food with his own money, which is technically an NCAA violation.

    There are countless examples of the corruption that is the NCAA.
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    Originally Posted by Acal83 View Post
    Agreed with that. I've always thought a good compromise would be to allow guys to use their likeness to make money if they are capable. If you just "pay" student athletes there isn't going to be a lot of money to go around since only two sports (football and men's basketball) turn a profit. There is part of me that wishes people would make a big enough deal to get rid of college sports because I know so many people who base their entire identity off of the football team loosely affiliated with the college they attended and it would be fun to see them lose that.

    To respond to the OP: I get where you are coming from, american football players do generally get a raw deal if they are a stand out player within their first contract when the average career is like three years or something. On the other hand, the NFL and the owners have created an environment where a guy who can chase a ball can make more money than the vast majority of humans in recorded history. Like you said, not many people consume the NFL relative to say EPL football. The NFL is basically a hundred year story of brilliant marketing.



    Disagree with getting rid of college sports. Makes money for colleges, encourages athletic activity (Even if it’s only for a small segment of the student body), and helps those students who aren’t going to ever go pro get in and out of college with minimal debt.


    Definitely agree on the compromise and, apparently, that’s where it’s heading anyways. Yeah, colleges directly paying students is impossible unless you got rid of every sport except football/basketball and maybe baseball in a few select colleges. Allowing students that are famous enough to make money off their likeness in their free time is just common sense.
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    a lot of the big school football programs pay for the rest of the Athletic department. Alabama getting football and TV revenue is what keeps their women's tennis and Men's volleyball programs operational. Just adds another wrinkle into everything

    But I 101% agree that NIL should be profited off of, and that will be the case in the near feature if I'm not mistaken?
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    Before the current system, rookie QBs taken in the 1st round would be getting paid 100+ million dollar contracts before even playing a snap. See Jamarcus Russell.


    I think the rookie wage is good. And besides, if a RB is highly drafted like Saquon Barkley, he would immediately become one of the highest paid RBs in the league, largely because people don't pay much for single RBs.

    Also, if you are truly an elite player, teams will give you an extension even early into your rookie contract. Some players end up holding out if they don't give them the money.
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    Originally Posted by DynamicDot View Post
    Before the current system, rookie QBs taken in the 1st round would be getting paid 100+ million dollar contracts before even playing a snap. See Jamarcus Russell.


    I think the rookie wage is good. And besides, if a RB is highly drafted like Saquon Barkley, he would immediately become one of the highest paid RBs in the league, largely because people don't pay much for single RBs.

    Also, if you are truly an elite player, teams will give you an extension even early into your rookie contract. Some players end up holding out if they don't give them the money.
    George Kittle was earning $675k a year as 2 time All-Pro aged 26.

    He could have had one injury that ended everything before he got paid

    Its only a matter of time before something like that happens



    I dont know what the answer is tbh, what if those on rookie contracts got a $5m bonus for being All Pro, paid via the NFL and without effecting cap?
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    George Kittle was earning $675k a year as 2 time All-Pro aged 26.

    He could have had one injury that ended everything before he got paid

    Its only a matter of time before something like that happens



    I dont know what the answer is tbh, what if those on rookie contracts got a $5m bonus for being All Pro, paid via the NFL and without effecting cap?
    Right, that's why if you establish yourself as an elite player, a lot of them end up holding out until you give them the bag for long term security. Sometimes one year is not enough to prove your worth though so they make you play for one more year.

    Mahomes was an MVP in 2018 with 50 TDs and didn't get his bag until after end of last year. I think bonuses already exist but most of them will just not participate until you give them the bag or trade them to a team that will give them the bag.
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    There’s a reason European soccer has zero parity outside of the English league. And there’s bonuses included in nfl contracts, you should know that if you watched week 17, when guys were specifically playing for bonuses.


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    The system is based on merit. Imagine teams handing out lucrative guaranteed contracts to someone unproven, that would mortgage the teams future. It takes years for new talent in the NFL to mature. I think teams/the league has learned from this in the past and this is why the system is the way it is. The players association and the league come to this agreement through a collective bargaining agreement (CBA).

    Additionally, you're comparing apples to oranges. Soccer is not a full contact sport whereas the NFL (and to a degree the NBA) is a full contact sport and one hard hit or mistake can destroy your career (which is the point you made in your post). Yes soccer players have longer careers, but it's also a much much safer sport compared to the NFL.
    Last edited by mkx1775; 02-24-2021 at 10:02 AM.
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    NCAA athletes should not be getting directly paid. However, I do support giving them the option to use their name for sponsorship.

    Also, you are missing the other currency they get paid in. Pussy. The average NCAA male athlete is draining his nuts in 20 to 25 of the hottest sluts on campus every year.

    College athletes are treated as gods at American universities. There are so many frat boys that end up crying because their girlfriends cheated on them with the 7 foot tall basketball center who probably stretched out their pussies beyond repair.
    It was all just satire. Sorry if I offended anyone with my trolling and sickening posts. Peace and love to everyone.
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    Originally Posted by mkx1775 View Post
    Additionally, you're comparing apples to oranges. Soccer is not a full contact sport whereas the NFL (and to a degree the NBA) is a full contact sport and one hard hit or mistake can destroy your career (which is the point you made in your post). Yes soccer players have longer careers, but it's also a much much safer sport compared to the NFL.
    This. I'm a little tired of Europeans comparing a pussy ass pansy sport like soccer to football.
    It was all just satire. Sorry if I offended anyone with my trolling and sickening posts. Peace and love to everyone.
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    Originally Posted by HockeyBacon18 View Post
    The problem is the NFLPA handles the negotiations with the NFL regarding contracts and money. But the youngest players aren't members of the NFLPA until they actually enter the league, so theres no urgent requirement to address these issues when the players acting on behalf of all are mostly vets.
    Saw an NFL player talking about this on a podcast, forget who it was. They were talking about the NFLPA is controlled by the current vets so when they're sitting at the table they only negotiate for themselves. Reminds of me a couple years ago when I was a teacher in North Carolina. The pay was pretty low so there was a 1 day strike and protest in Raleigh. The end result was teachers getting an $800 raise and principals and assistant principals getting an extra $20-30,0000.
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    NCAA is the chittest most corrupt organization in American sports. Student athletes my ass, they're all about NCAA's $$$$$$$$.

    They dont give a single fuk about the students.

    The NCAA has destroyed more kids than can be counted, and they've made billion on billion doing it.
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    Major sports in North America is set up as a monopsony (employer monopoly) for team owners and colleges. The point of the NCAA and major sports draft system is to precisely deny movements rights and keep wages pisslow for as long as possible, while franchising means owners who buy in have little chance of failing no matter how incompetent they are. They can pull it off because most major sports have little international competition and so are able to corner the market in the US and Canada. Yes, it's largely a racket to take away money from players (specially young and marginal) and put it in the pockets of team owners and colleges.

    This is why the MLS draft and NCAA soccer are largely meaningless, no one gives a **** about them because they're neither top leagues nor they have much power over players (who can play in dozens of different pro leagues internationally).
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    Originally Posted by mkx1775 View Post
    The system is based on merit. Imagine teams handing out lucrative guaranteed contracts to someone unproven, that would mortgage the teams future. It takes years for new talent in the NFL to mature. I think teams/the league has learned from this in the past and this is why the system is the way it is. The players association and the league come to this agreement through a collective bargaining agreement (CBA).

    Additionally, you're comparing apples to oranges. Soccer is not a full contact sport whereas the NFL (and to a degree the NBA) is a full contact sport and one hard hit or mistake can destroy your career (which is the point you made in your post). Yes soccer players have longer careers, but it's also a much much safer sport compared to the NFL.
    Surely a system "based on merit" would be a free market negotiation like every other line of work?


    As you say its a negotiation between the league and players association, neither of whom have larger rookie contracts in their interests
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