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  1. #1
    Registered User TryingBB's Avatar
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    I think I need to add volume ... pls help

    Been following greyskull LP and keep missing reps after adding weight and getting to 135lbs x5 on bench and 115x5 on squats (deadlift is 215x5 and OHP is 95x5) 5ft 8inches and 168lbs - 20% bodyfat skinnyfat or maybe just fat? Lol. I’ve tried to progress with 250cal surplus, at maintenance and also while cutting. Below is the story...

    Long story short I feel I respond better to more volume. 3x5 takes a toll on me it feels like (reset at the same weight so many times and weight just doesn’t feel easier - miss reps when I add weight) and I just now switched to 3x8 followed by next workout 3x7 (add 5lbs) then next workout 3x6 (add 5lbs) and back to 3x8 (same weight at 3x7).

    Is addition of just a few reps enough to stimulate muscle growth? I’ve done the above just last workout and body feels a bit different...not sure what to do to continue progressing. Is this the right approach?

    I also do bicep curls 3x8-12 on Monday and drag curls 3x8-12 on fridays. I don’t seem to be making progress atall on biceps. Should I increase to 4x8-12 or maybe switch to 3x12-15?

    Thx guys
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  2. #2
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Been following greyskull LP and keep missing reps after adding weight and getting to 135lbs x5 on bench and 115x5 on squats. 5ft 8inches and 168lbs - 20% bodyfat skinnyfat or maybe just fat? Lol. I’ve tried to progress with 250cal surplus, at maintenance and also while cutting. Below is the story...

    Long story short I feel I respond better to more volume. 3x5 takes a toll on me it feels like (reset at the same weight so many times and weight just doesn’t feel easier - miss reps when I add weight) and I just now switched to 3x8 followed by next workout 3x7 (add 5lbs) then next workout 3x6 (add 5lbs) and back to 3x8 (same weight at 3x7).

    Is addition of just a few reps enough to stimulate muscle growth? I’ve done the above just last workout and body feels a bit different...not sure what to do to continue progressing. Is this the right approach?

    I also do bicep curls 3x8-12 on Monday and drag curls 3x8-12 on fridays. I don’t seem to be making progress atall on biceps. Should I increase to 4x8-12 or maybe switch to 3x12-15?

    Thx guys
    Maybe at the end of linear progression. Try something periodized. Biceps is the last thing to worry about, mate
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  3. #3
    Registered User TryingBB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    Maybe at the end of linear progression. Try something periodized. Biceps is the last thing to worry about, mate
    Why did I get to end of linear progression at such pu$$y weights?

    The way I’m doing the progression in my op seems ok to try? Or should I look for a different way to try and progress?

    Below is what I’m doing..


    3x8 followed by next workout 3x7 (add 5lbs) then next workout 3x6 (add 5lbs) and back to 3x8 (same weight as 3x7).
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  4. #4
    Time is Muscle ECGordyn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Why did I get to end of linear progression at such pu$$y weights?

    The way I’m doing the progression in my op seems ok to try? Or should I look for a different way to try and progress?

    Below is what I’m doing..


    3x8 followed by next workout 3x7 (add 5lbs) then next workout 3x6 (add 5lbs) and back to 3x8 (same weight as 3x7).
    I'd increase reps before increasing weight. Go from 3x8 to 3x12 and then add 5 lbs.

    How are your calories? Surplus or deficit?
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  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Why did I get to end of linear progression at such pu$$y weights?

    The way I’m doing the progression in my op seems ok to try? Or should I look for a different way to try and progress?

    Below is what I’m doing..


    3x8 followed by next workout 3x7 (add 5lbs) then next workout 3x6 (add 5lbs) and back to 3x8 (same weight as 3x7).
    Not everyone progresses to the same point with LP.

    If you want more volume and something more physique focused, try Eric helms intermediate routine if you can train 5x a week.

    Or try any number of 5/3/1, barbell medicine, or a free intermediate routine posted on here.
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    In my opinion I got the best results for biceps when I started to do more overall volume during the week. If your only working your biceps once a week that ain’t enough. Work your biceps at least 2 or 3 times a week with high volume and use different bars to help target the biceps from different angles. This is what worked for me, it may not work for you as everyone is different. Good luck.
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  7. #7
    Registered User TryingBB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ECGordyn View Post
    I'd increase reps before increasing weight. Go from 3x8 to 3x12 and then add 5 lbs.

    How are your calories? Surplus or deficit?
    I was doing 3x5. I’ve switched to 3x8-6 (add 5lbs every workout and remove 1 rep every workout). Start the next cycle with 5lbs higher than last 3x8 weight.

    Try 3x12-8 then?

    I was in a surplus till very recently. Cutting at a 250 deficit as of a few days ago - so this sets/reps change plus diet change is both happening at the same time

    Originally Posted by Filmbuff81 View Post
    Not everyone progresses to the same point with LP.

    If you want more volume and something more physique focused, try Eric helms intermediate routine if you can train 5x a week.

    Or try any number of 5/3/1, barbell medicine, or a free intermediate routine posted on here.
    Will check these out. Thx

    What’s a good intermediate routine? I thought greyskull was intermediate and it didn’t work too well for my bench and squat


    Originally Posted by AlphaMentality4 View Post
    In my opinion I got the best results for biceps when I started to do more overall volume during the week. If your only working your biceps once a week that ain’t enough. Work your biceps at least 2 or 3 times a week with high volume and use different bars to help target the biceps from different angles. This is what worked for me, it may not work for you as everyone is different. Good luck.
    I do 3 sets twice a week. Plus chin-ups once or twice a week depending on the program
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  8. #8
    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    What does your 2×5 and 3rd set amrap to failure for bench look like for example? How many reps on the 3rd set and what weight for all sets?

    I'm gonna go a different direction and say that you should not be stalling whatsoever on LP based off the weights you're using. And since you're 20% bodyfat/ate in a surplus then that definitely can't be the issue either. You're in prime time for making gains so my money is on the fact that there's something going on with the routine.
    Last edited by Animal2692; 02-22-2021 at 06:07 PM.
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    Have you ever considered working with a (reputable) trainer or coach? Based on some of your posts about your struggles it sounds like you've tried diff approaches but have spun your wheels a bit.

    Kinda seems like something may get lost in the effort and execution... might help to have someone who can work with you from a perspective other than your own.
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    3 sets twice a week is nothing, I do at least 6 sets in the same session. Increase it to 5 sets twice a week, 10-15 reps. Should see some decent improvement. If not then you ain’t training hard enough or your form is not on point.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by AlphaMentality4 View Post
    3 sets twice a week is nothing, I do at least 6 sets in the same session. Increase it to 5 sets twice a week, 10-15 reps. Should see some decent improvement. If not then you ain’t training hard enough or your form is not on point.
    You know it's funny you say that because I'm doing 2 sets 3x a week alternating between ohp and close grip bench, all sets to failure and I'm progressing insanely fast at maintenance. I started with 115lb for 7 to failure ohp last week, already at 125lb for 7 sunday and going to 135lb for 5 end of this week, full rom and everything, no leg drive.
    Last edited by Animal2692; 02-22-2021 at 06:22 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    I was doing 3x5. I’ve switched to 3x8-6 (add 5lbs every workout and remove 1 rep every workout). Start the next cycle with 5lbs higher than last 3x8 weight.

    Try 3x12-8 then?

    I was in a surplus till very recently. Cutting at a 250 deficit as of a few days ago - so this sets/reps change plus diet change is both happening at the same time



    Will check these out. Thx

    What’s a good intermediate routine? I thought greyskull was intermediate and it didn’t work too well for my bench and squat




    I do 3 sets twice a week. Plus chin-ups once or twice a week depending on the program
    The progression method you posted works well and should be a good option if you are beyond LP. I am in a similar situation - had to switch to intermediate programming when I was squatting and benching well below bodyweight.

    Hard sets is generally the best way to measure volume - so I wouldn't think of 6-8 reps as being higher volume, just lower intensity, which could be what you need.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    You know it's funny you say that because I'm doing 2 sets 3x a week alternating between ohp and close grip bench, all sets to failure and I'm progressing insanely fast at maintenance. I started with 115lb for 7 to failure ohp last week, already at 125lb for 7 sunday and going to 135lb for 5 end of this week.
    If that’s working for you then that’s great keep it up! My response was to the OP saying he only does 3 sets for biceps twice a week. In my opinion that’s too low volume to really see any decent growth in the biceps. I had to increase my overall arm volume during the week by a lot to see any decent progress.
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    You aren’t gonna progressively overload any kind of bicep isolation like you would a compound exercise.

    Please stop.
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    Originally Posted by AlphaMentality4 View Post
    If that’s working for you then that’s great keep it up! My response was to the OP saying he only does 3 sets for biceps twice a week. In my opinion that’s too low volume to really see any decent growth in the biceps. I had to increase my overall arm volume during the week by a lot to see any decent progress.
    I think getting stronger (not just a little bit but crazy strong) on rows+chins one would get away with decent bicep growth even if they doesn't isolate them.
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    You aren’t gonna progressively overload any kind of bicep isolation like you would a compound exercise.

    Please stop.
    This. Progressive overloading isolations is more a result of progressively overloading on the compounds. One mistake I see is people adding 10lbs to their bench and rows and expecting bigger arms so they all of a sudden think isolation is what they've been missing lol. Na fam, you won't see changes in arms till you're about 60lbs or so stronger on those compounds.
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    What does your 2×5 and 3rd set amrap to failure for bench look like for example? How many reps on the 3rd set and what weight for all sets?

    I'm gonna go a different direction and say that you should not be stalling whatsoever on LP based off the weights you're using. And since you're 20% bodyfat/ate in a surplus then that definitely can't be the issue either. You're in prime time for making gains so my money is on the fact that there's something going on with the routine.
    You’re making a statement that just isn’t true.

    Some people just flat out stall.

    He needs more muscle and just banging his head into a wall on an LP is pointless.

    Not everyone can keep grinding weights higher and higher and I’d wager it is counterproductive.

    I’d much rather someone hop on a long term program that will yield slower weight progression, but better long term gains.
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    You aren’t gonna progressively overload any kind of bicep isolation like you would a compound exercise.

    Please stop.
    You aren’t going to build big biceps with only heavy compound lifts, I’ve tried. You also need to add isolation exercises in to assist with the growth. I’m not telling the OP to only do curls in order to get big biceps. What i am saying is there’s no harm in adding a few more sets a week to see what happens. If you don’t try you will never find out.
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Have you ever considered working with a (reputable) trainer or coach? Based on some of your posts about your struggles it sounds like you've tried diff approaches but have spun your wheels a bit.

    Kinda seems like something may get lost in the effort and execution... might help to have someone who can work with you from a perspective other than your own.
    I think if OP can be honest with himself and a coach then this is a good idea.
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    What does your 2×5 and 3rd set amrap to failure for bench look like for example? How many reps on the 3rd set and what weight for all sets?

    I'm gonna go a different direction and say that you should not be stalling whatsoever on LP based off the weights you're using. And since you're 20% bodyfat/ate in a surplus then that definitely can't be the issue either. You're in prime time for making gains so my money is on the fact that there's something going on with the routine.
    I’m following greyskull LP.

    I get the following before last failure in BP.

    125 x 5
    125 x 5
    125 x 6

    Then

    127.5 x5
    127.5x5
    127.5x6

    Then

    130x5
    130x5
    130x5

    Then

    132.5x5
    132.5x5
    132.5x5

    Then

    135x5
    135x4
    135x4

    Something like that. The cycle keeps repeating and repeating. And 130lbs and 135lbs feels heavy as fuk
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    Originally Posted by Filmbuff81 View Post
    I think if OP can be honest with himself and a coach then this is a good idea.
    I want to try a coach after Covid. Maybe I should even get an online coach in the meanwhile?

    I did have several form and MMC and muscle imbalance issues that I’ve improved on - but still I don’t see the progress that everyone claims to get.

    I add 2.5lbs to my bench and it feels like I added a 100lbs some days. Like I’ve regressed actually.

    Missing reps and starting at the same place don’t seem to help - hence trying different rep scheme / progression.

    I miss the beginning days when I could add 5lbs to a lift and it felt easier than last workout.
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    Something like that. The cycle keeps repeating and repeating. And 130lbs and 135lbs feels heavy as fuk
    Try this:

    Ramp/warm up

    150x1 or 2
    135x5
    135x5
    135x5

    Unracking and repping 150 will make 135 feel easier.
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    Originally Posted by Filmbuff81 View Post
    You’re making a statement that just isn’t true.

    Some people just flat out stall.

    He needs more muscle and just banging his head into a wall on an LP is pointless.

    Not everyone can keep grinding weights higher and higher and I’d wager it is counterproductive.

    I’d much rather someone hop on a long term program that will yield slower weight progression, but better long term gains.
    I get what you're saying but you're leaving out the fact that his current numbers put him at the newbie level where it's prime time for gains. That's why imo it's too simplistic to say "some people just flat out stall" in his situation. I mean he is stalling but I don't buy that he has no linear progression left. I used to stall with those kinds of numbers and thought my LP was done until I made a few changes now I'm back on LP at higher numbers and on maintenance calories. If you're not making fast progress in the first year of lifting starting with novice numbers, you're plain and simple doing something wrong. While it's true everyone progresses at different rates, it's also true that everyone progresses much faster when novice.
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    I want to try a coach after Covid. Maybe I should even get an online coach in the meanwhile?

    I did have several form and MMC and muscle imbalance issues that I’ve improved on - but still I don’t see the progress that everyone claims to get.

    I add 2.5lbs to my bench and it feels like I added a 100lbs some days. Like I’ve regressed actually.

    Missing reps and starting at the same place don’t seem to help - hence trying different rep scheme / progression.

    I miss the beginning days when I could add 5lbs to a lift and it felt easier than last workout.
    I started working online with Sam Okunola about 11 weeks ago and it’s been great.

    He’s a Renaissance Periodization prep coach and does his own clients too.

    Online is definitely viable, but if you’re struggling with MMC getting a bit of in person coaching could be beneficial.

    Since you’re a novice, I’d imagine anyone would want to see form videos to critique.

    Also training is a decades long endeavour so there will be days it feels like ass.

    If physique is your primary goal, getting into some sort of program that focuses more on that is the way to go.

    You really want to work the whole gamut of rep ranges from 6-30 reps.

    Hammering into the same rep range over and over gets stale in a hurry even with AMRAP built in to greyskull.
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    I get what you're saying but you're leaving out the fact that his current numbers put him at the newbie level where it's prime time for gains. That's why imo it's too simplistic to say "some people just flat out stall" in his situation. I mean he is stalling but I don't buy that he has no linear progression left. I used to stall with those kinds of numbers and thought my LP was done until I made a few changes now I'm back on LP at higher numbers and on maintenance calories.
    So you’re missing my point completely.

    Who gives a fuk about linear gains on weight progression?

    That DOES NOT equal muscle gain. That’s a lot of neural gains.

    He can still make “newb” muscle gains for a while, but he doesn’t need to be on an LP to do that.

    You’re discussing progression from the perspective of putting weight on the bar.

    I’m talking about putting muscle on the body.

    They don’t have to be mutually exclusive, but they also don’t need to go hand in hand.
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    I’m following greyskull LP.

    I get the following before last failure in BP.

    125 x 5
    125 x 5
    125 x 6

    Then

    127.5 x5
    127.5x5
    127.5x6

    Then

    130x5
    130x5
    130x5

    Then

    132.5x5
    132.5x5
    132.5x5

    Then

    135x5
    135x4
    135x4

    Something like that. The cycle keeps repeating and repeating. And 130lbs and 135lbs feels heavy as fuk
    If you're failing at 1 rep more on the 3rd set than the first two sets, then the first two sets are already 1 rep shy of failure or so. As crazy as this sounds, it may be too much volume. I do 6 sets of pressing a week at failure with one rep shy at the most and linearly progressing. I'm not saying the same will be with you but if I did 9 sets (which is your weekly pressing volume now), I wouldn't progress so you can use me as an example. As a novice you're very sensitive to training and this is compounded even more if you actually know how to push the set close or to failure. So I recommend trying out 2x5 instead for a week or two. If it doesn't work, then you know for sure you need more volume instead
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    Originally Posted by TryingBB View Post
    I’m following greyskull LP.

    I get the following before last failure in BP.

    125 x 5
    125 x 5
    125 x 6

    Then

    127.5 x5
    127.5x5
    127.5x6

    Then

    130x5
    130x5
    130x5

    Then

    132.5x5
    132.5x5
    132.5x5

    Then

    135x5
    135x4
    135x4

    Something like that. The cycle keeps repeating and repeating. And 130lbs and 135lbs feels heavy as fuk
    Are you working out in a gym or at home? If it’s a gym, why don’t you try a different pressing movement that will yield better mmc.

    Machine, plate loaded(hammer strength machine) dumbbells.
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    Originally Posted by Filmbuff81 View Post
    Are you working out in a gym or at home? If it’s a gym, why don’t you try a different pressing movement that will yield better mmc.

    Machine, plate loaded(hammer strength machine) dumbbells.
    Even at home, you can do variations: long pause, pin bench, Larsen, Spoto, close grip, etc.
    2020 maxes
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    Originally Posted by Filmbuff81 View Post
    So you’re missing my point completely.

    Who gives a fuk about linear gains on weight progression?

    That DOES NOT equal muscle gain. That’s a lot of neural gains.

    He can still make “newb” muscle gains for a while, but he doesn’t need to be on an LP to do that.

    You’re discussing progression from the perspective of putting weight on the bar.

    I’m talking about putting muscle on the body.

    They don’t have to be mutually exclusive, but they also don’t need to go hand in hand.

    It's appropriate given the information he provided.
    I agree neural gains aren't equal to muscle gain. But long term, you must be lifting more to grow muscle. I'm not saying he needs to be on an LP, I'm saying I don't see how he can be on anything else other than LP even if he tried. We're talking about working with a 135lb bench here
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    You aren’t gonna progressively overload any kind of bicep isolation like you would a compound exercise.

    Please stop.
    This. Biceps make up about 3-4% of the total muscle mass in the body. If you don't find they're getting enough stimulation from your pulling work, you can do some curls, but it should be a low priority in your training.

    I think going for a big rep range works for biceps and other small isolation work. 8-12 reps should work, increasing the weight by the smallest amount possible when you hit 12 reps. If you can't microload, try 8-15 reps.

    Based on everything you've posted, you should be 100x more concerned with your squat than your biceps (no judgement, my squat sucks too).
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