I think I need to add volume ... pls help

[Filmbuff81]

Even at home, you can do variations: long pause, pin bench, Larsen, Spoto, close grip, etc.

True I was mainly thinking of something that would let him focus in on his chest and not worry about failing the lift.

But yeah lots of options in general.

[Filmbuff81]

It's appropriate given the information he provided.
I agree neural gains aren't equal to muscle gain. But long term, you must be lifting more to grow muscle. I'm not saying he needs to be on an LP, I'm saying I don't see how he can be on anything else other than LP even if he tried. We're talking about working with a 135lb bench here

And he could swap to 95 for 3-4 x 8-12 maybe.

I guess my point is hammering 5 reps over and over just may not be doing anything for him, so if he focuses on building muscle with higher volume and reps eventually he will get bigger probably just as quickly, and progress at a slightly slower rate weight wise.

[Filmbuff81]

I think a form video of your bench press would also help.

You could have **** form causing issues too.

[BeginnerGainz]

Another point: for biceps on a light day I’ll do a couple sets of 20 with a 5 or 8 pound band or a 15-20 lbs dumbbell, slow up and slow down and squeeze at the top.

You could try picking a weight you can do 100 reps with and with good form to metabolically stress the muscle. Gotta think outside the box sometimes when it comes to growing muscles.

[RapidFail]

It's appropriate given the information he provided.
I agree neural gains aren't equal to muscle gain. But long term, you must be lifting more to grow muscle. I'm not saying he needs to be on an LP, I'm saying I don't see how he can be on anything else other than LP even if he tried. We're talking about working with a 135lb bench here

You're discounting genetics. Some people bench 225lb the first time they touch a barbell and can get to 315lb with LP. I wasn't so lucky - LP got me as far as 125lb for 3 sets of 5, then I stalled HARD. Since then it has taken over 18 month of consistent lifting to get my bench to 138lb for 4 sets of 5. Some people just need intermediate programming earlier than others.

[Filmbuff81]

If you're failing at 1 rep more on the 3rd set than the first two sets, then the first two sets are already 1 rep shy of failure or so. As crazy as this sounds, it may be too much volume. I do 6 sets of pressing a week at failure with one rep shy at the most and linearly progressing. I'm not saying the same will be with you but if I did 9 sets (which is your weekly pressing volume now), I wouldn't progress so you can use me as an example. As a novice you're very sensitive to training and this is compounded even more if you actually know how to push the set close or to failure. So I recommend trying out 2x5 instead for a week or two. If it doesn't work, then you know for sure you need more volume instead

9 sets is more appropriate than your 6 sets.

If he was only benching once a week sure 6.

But just about every study shows 10 is the lowest you want to be to induce hypertrophy.

You’re an exception to the rule with 6 sets.

Dude is hammering himself into the wall in an LP basically going to failure every time.

Of course lowering volume will dissipate fatigue and performance may climb.

But that(and I cannot stress this enough) is not indicative that less sets is better for hypertrophy and his long term gains.

At some point very quickly he would stall again and would need to increase the volume once more.

[TryingBB]

You're discounting genetics. Some people bench 225lb the first time they touch a barbell and can get to 315lb with LP. I wasn't so lucky - LP got me as far as 125lb for 3 sets of 5, then I stalled HARD. Since then it has taken over 18 month of consistent lifting to get my bench to 138lb for 4 sets of 5. Some people just need intermediate programming earlier than others.

Fuk fuk this sounds like the path I’m on. Noooo!!

Everyone, Biceps are not atall my biggest concern - they actually look decent in the mirror - it’s just that they can’t really move a lot of weight. It’s squats, bench press and biceps that are really giving me hell. Everything else kinda progresses fine.

I don’t want to be in the situation above as RapidFail (kind of am already actually) - I can try two things. Continue with the progression I already am trying of increasing weight every workout and reducing one rep. If this fails, I can try even lower volume (which I don’t think will work but who knows).

If that don’t work - I’m gonna add a set to these lifts - or is there something else I could do?

My goal is purely aesthetics and muscle gain.

With squat I recently figured low bar squat feels the best and I am able to maintaining a proper vertical bar path so I’m on to that for a bit. Oh high bar squats, I shift forward out of the hole. I have also stopped going ATG and put a shoebox behind me - back up at parallel to the floor instead of add to the grass.

Bench press - it’s shameful when I look at my logs. I benched 135x5 over a year ago and I keep just cycling trying different things. One thing I have not tried is upping the volume till now (tad bit lower weight and higher reps - go from 3x5 to 3x8, then 3x7 then 3x6 and back to 3x8). We shall see. If this don’t work, then I’m adding a set. If that don’t work I’ll try 2 amrap sets with 9 rpe.

[TryingBB]

9 sets is more appropriate than your 6 sets.

If he was only benching once a week sure 6.

But just about every study shows 10 is the lowest you want to be to induce hypertrophy.

You’re an exception to the rule with 6 sets.

Dude is hammering himself into the wall in an LP basically going to failure every time.

Of course lowering volume will dissipate fatigue and performance may climb.

But that(and I cannot stress this enough) is not indicative that less sets is better for hypertrophy and his long term gains.

At some point very quickly he would stall again and would need to increase the volume once more.

Here is the program I’m on. Please critique? I did my 3x8 @ 120 on Wednesday and 3x7 @ 125lbs Sunday on BP and today chest feels great. Like there is awesomeness going on - I really feel I’m responding better to higher number of reps. 3x5 was not working for sure. I have a log for the last couple years to prove that :-(

[WolfRose7]

Here is the program I’m on. Please critique? I did my 3x8 @ 120 on Wednesday and 3x7 @ 125lbs Sunday on BP and today chest feels great. Like there is awesomeness going on - I really feel I’m responding better to higher number of reps. 3x5 was not working for sure. I have a log for the last couple years to prove that :-(

So adjust.
Personally my bench response best to both singles and doubles, and higher rep assistance.
Everytime I put in 6 bench slots in 4 days it suddenly just becomes linear gains.
Tried less frequency and variation and it stalls.

Gslp is a great program, but if you aren't progressing consistently something needs to change.

[Filmbuff81]

Here is the program I’m on. Please critique? I did my 3x7 yesterday on BP and today chest feels great. Like there is awesomeness going on - I really feel I’m responding better to higher number of reps. 3x5 was not working for sure. I have a log for the last couple years to prove that :-(

What you’ve basically started doing with the 3x8,3x7,3x6 repeat is literally wave loaded linear Periodization.

It’s a simple effective form of intermediate progression.

Give it a go for 12 weeks.

You’ll know by then if it’s working since you’ll either break plateaus or you won’t.

If you stall add an extra 1-2 sets to the exercises that are stalling.

You may need to deload 10% and build back up.
As I’ve made pretty clear in here I’m not a fan of staying on a novice program like greyskull for a long time and I think milking weight progression in and of itself is pointless.

You can keep the split the same if you want and just wave the reps and weight as you’re planning to do.

You’re purely after aesthetics so jumping into an upper/lower split may be beneficial in a little bit too vs sticking to 3 day full body.

Unless 3 days is your limit in which case stay there and manipulate volume and rep schemes.

Also I wouldn’t change the rep scheme each workout to be 3x8,3x7,3x6

I’d consider just doing that for your heavy bench session and then adjust the other days to be variations of the movement and reps.

But that may be getting too much in the weeds for this thread.

[TryingBB]

Ok since I’ve always started the wave loaded linear periodization I’ll continue this and see if I can break past my previous squat and bench PRs. If I stall, I’ll add sets.

I thought greyskull is intermediate program - is not? What’s a few good intermediate programs? Also pls suggest some good upper lower programs?

I prefer working out only 3 days a week - I can do 4th day if the difference in potential gains is drastic - is it? Thx guys

[Filmbuff81]

Ok since I’ve always started the wave loaded linear periodization I’ll continue this and see if I can break past my previous squat and bench PRs. If I stall, I’ll add sets.

I thought greyskull is intermediate program - is not? What’s a few good intermediate programs? Also pls suggest some good upper lower programs?

I prefer working out only 3 days a week - I can do 4th day if the difference in potential gains is drastic - is it? Thx guys

Split is more about managing fatigue from an increase in volume.

If you can adhere better to 3 days then stick to 3 days.

Greyskull isn’t an intermediate program.

There’s lots of 3 day 5/3/1 programs, I imagine there’s some stickies here too.

Renaissance Periodization has physique templates ranging from 3-6 days.

Eric helms has a 4 day bodybuilding program.

There’s PHUL as well.

There’s Lyle McDonalds generic bulking routine too.

[RapidFail]

9 sets is more appropriate than your 6 sets.

If he was only benching once a week sure 6.

But just about every study shows 10 is the lowest you want to be to induce hypertrophy.

You’re an exception to the rule with 6 sets.

Dude is hammering himself into the wall in an LP basically going to failure every time.

Of course lowering volume will dissipate fatigue and performance may climb.

But that(and I cannot stress this enough) is not indicative that less sets is better for hypertrophy and his long term gains.

At some point very quickly he would stall again and would need to increase the volume once more.

I tend to agree with all of this. Some people need more volume to grow.

Last year I dramatically increased my chest volume by doing a push up challenge, where I did over 3000 push ups in 3 weeks. During the challenge my bench performance suffered, but once I allowed the fatigue to dissipate, I added 5-10lb to my 7- rep bench press. A month later, it was back to where it started.

[RapidFail]

Split is more about managing fatigue from an increase in volume.

If you can adhere better to 3 days then stick to 3 days.

Greyskull isn’t an intermediate program.

There’s lots of 3 day 5/3/1 programs, I imagine there’s some stickies here too.

Renaissance Periodization has physique templates ranging from 3-6 days.

Eric helms has a 4 day bodybuilding program.

There’s PHUL as well.

There’s Lyle McDonalds generic bulking routine too.

I'll second Eric Helms 4-day bodybuilding program - ran it for 6 months and really enjoyed it. I had to switch to intermediate progression for nearly all of my lifts, but the volume seemed to be about right for me.

[xuerebx]

I hear you man. This sport is very evidently genetically driven, so you can't (or rather, maybe you shouldn't) compare results with others especially on the internet as it can be demotivating. I'm in a similar boat like you are, not in the sense of progression/regression but in the sense of really slow progress. I've finally benched my bodyweight (65kg/ 145lbs) for 1 rep after 7 months working out last Sunday - yet I've seen others do can bench their weight for reps in just 2-3 months.

Anyway, I think when you feel you're not responding upping the volume should help. I've had 'success' with applying the principles of GZCL (I'm on the base GZCLP routine with added accessory work).

As for intermediate programs, not sure if the SBS2.0 routines can qualify as such but maybe it's something you could look into. You can get them for just $10.

[MyEgoProblem]

I thought greyskull is intermediate program - is not? What’s a few good intermediate programs? Also pls suggest some good upper lower programs?

The real greyskull setups and principles are very much viable thru to advanced... Facts.

That from reddit, isn't. Its just starting strength with an AMRAP. And it's missing 70% of the work that's should be programmed.

I ****ing hate phrak and reddit greyskull.....

At no point in my career have I cared about what numbers people finish their first NOOB LP. It doesnt matter at all.
I know a a LOT ppl that finished their noob gains with under the 3/2/4 plates that kids thing everyone should achieve. IT'S JUST NOT TRUE.
And MANY of these guys are now 5/3/5+
They just needed more sets than the noob programs have in them to add size.

[xuerebx]

I know a a LOT ppl that finished their noob gains with under the 3/2/4 plates that kids thing everyone should achieve. IT'S JUST NOT TRUE.
And MANY of these guys are now 5/3/5+
They just needed more sets than the noob programs have in them to add size.

That's heartening to hear! You just don't see anyone mention this online unfortunately. To me it's more motivating knowing someone who apparently didn't reach an arbitrary number in their early stages, but then well exceeded them in future years. You only hear about those who got to top-tier lifts in a seemingly too short of a timescale (not that I don't believe them).

[MyEgoProblem]

That's heartening to hear! You just don't see anyone mention this online unfortunately. To me it's more motivating knowing someone who apparently didn't reach an arbitrary number in their early stages, but then well exceeded them in future years. You only hear about those who got to top-tier lifts in a seemingly too short of a timescale (not that I don't believe them).

Once you realise that your first few months out of a decade+ lifting career is just a drop in the ocean you move on and can care less that you only hit 120kg squat before you had to move from SS..

Its like your first couple of driving lessons. 20 years later you look back at that time you stalled twice pulling away or took 4 attempts at your first parallel.

Some people hit a 3plate bench at high school first year or squat 500 first attempt. Some take years...

Full disclosure/transparency.
I hit a 180kg squat 90 bench 190 dead 60 ohp on Gslp cutting.
Then against my better judgement listened to this forum and changed my plan, ran F5 and stalled in about 6 weeks and got hurt . Not that F5 is bad, I helped in many revisions of it, I was just past that stage. And trying to go/stay novice isn't Sensible

[Animal2692]

9 sets is more appropriate than your 6 sets.

If he was only benching once a week sure 6.

But just about every study shows 10 is the lowest you want to be to induce hypertrophy.

You’re an exception to the rule with 6 sets.

Dude is hammering himself into the wall in an LP basically going to failure every time.

Of course lowering volume will dissipate fatigue and performance may climb.

But that(and I cannot stress this enough) is not indicative that less sets is better for hypertrophy and his long term gains.

At some point very quickly he would stall again and would need to increase the volume once more.

I take all my sets to failure, perfect form, full rom and split it up over 3 full body days, so 2 sets for pressing (close grip bench alternating with ohp) each session...absolutely decimates me. Every workout the weight feels easier and I'll go up by 2-3 reps each time. I used to think 10 hard sets was the minimum until I said screw it and went down to 6. I probably am an exception but it goes to show to not get stuck on a certain amount of sets that the studies point to and who knows, there must be others out there just like me.

This was 6 reps overhead press with 125lbs 2nd set to failure from Sunday. Week before that I failed at 7 with 115 and by end of this week I'm going to 135 for 5. 20lb increase on ohp in 2 weeks, starting from failure so it's not like I increased my effort level. Maintenance calories, 150lb bodyweight soaking wet, small frame.
https://streamable.com/40fvwn

[sooby]

sounds like you're running some inferior reddit version of greyskull ...

with that said if a program is absolutely not working for you, no point trying to run yourself into the ground for it

skim read through it but are you actually doing the greyskull resets? i.e bring the weight down when you fail and try to AMRAP your last sets and set PRs there? That's how you get your additional volume and autoregulation. For example on Week 1 you did 115 for 2x5 on bench press and 7 reps on the last set. Week 5 you stall at 135. So on week 6 you go back to say 115 lbs, you should in theory be able to get more than 7 reps on the last set, say maybe 9 reps. IMO that is the key of Greyskull and what separates it from other programs. That last set where you are doing more reps should be a key driver of growth.

With that said why is your squat so low?

[MyEgoProblem]

sounds like you're running some inferior reddit version of greyskull ...

with that said if a program is absolutely not working for you, no point trying to run yourself into the ground for it

skim read through it but are you actually doing the greyskull resets? i.e bring the weight down when you fail and try to AMRAP your last sets and set PRs there? That's how you get your additional volume and autoregulation. For example on Week 1 you did 115 for 2x5 on bench press and 7 reps on the last set. Week 5 you stall at 135. So on week 6 you go back to say 115 lbs, you should in theory be able to get more than 7 reps on the last set, say maybe 9 reps. IMO that is the key of Greyskull and what separates it from other programs. That last set where you are doing more reps should be a key driver of growth.

With that said why is your squat so low?

You hang around me & crew far too much dawg xD you sound like a slightly less jaded and less fat version of couch..

I agree with all of this post.. Obviously.

[Filmbuff81]

I take all my sets to failure, perfect form, full rom and split it up over 3 full body days, so 2 sets for pressing (close grip bench alternating with ohp) each session...absolutely decimates me. Every workout the weight feels easier and I'll go up by 2-3 reps each time. I used to think 10 hard sets was the minimum until I said screw it and went down to 6. I probably am an exception but it goes to show to not get stuck on a certain amount of sets that the studies point to and who knows, there must be others out there just like me.

This was 6 reps overhead press with 125lbs 2nd set to failure from Sunday. Week before that I failed at 7 with 115 and by end of this week I'm going to 135 for 5. 20lb increase on ohp in 2 weeks, starting from failure so it's not like I increased my effort level. Maintenance calories, 150lb bodyweight soaking wet, small frame.
https://streamable.com/40fvwn

I’ll respond more in depth later but of course you need less sets if you’re taking everything to failure.

You’re essentially describing HIT training.

If I did my current level of volume and went to failure every workout I’d be burnt out in 3 weeks.

I also think you had a rep in the tank looking at your video.

So I’d say maybe you went to technical failure but you didn’t attempt another rep so who knows if you actually hit failure.

Also there’s nothing inherently wrong with what you’re doing, I just feel like you keep equating your weight increases as proof you’re stimulating the muscle enough for hypertrophy.

If you increase those weights by 20lbs over a few months then sure you’ve progressed, but looking at a week is too small a sample size.

[TryingBB]

The real greyskull setups and principles are very much viable thru to advanced... Facts.

That from reddit, isn't. Its just starting strength with an AMRAP. And it's missing 70% of the work that's should be programmed.

I ****ing hate phrak and reddit greyskull.....

At no point in my career have I cared about what numbers people finish their first NOOB LP. It doesnt matter at all.
I know a a LOT ppl that finished their noob gains with under the 3/2/4 plates that kids thing everyone should achieve. IT'S JUST NOT TRUE.
And MANY of these guys are now 5/3/5+
They just needed more sets than the noob programs have in them to add size.

Ive been beaten around and bashed on for not pushing hard enough in multiple threads. I then went Ballz to the wallz for many months and kept spinning wheels. Then I saw your post about trying not to pin myself to the wall everytime and max out - cuz I do get burnt out in 2 to 3 weeks doing that.

Volume is the answer for me imo - what do? What program can I follow? I don’t want to make my own cuz I don’t wanna make a mistake.

I did some pushups today and man they felt easy which means the awesomeness I’m feeling in my chest and shoulders from dropping 3x5 and starting the 3x8 and 3x7 and 3x6 is working. But maybe it’s too early for me to try wave prioritization and I need to just stick with straight 3x6-8 or even 4x6-8 and once that stops working go to wave periodization?

My nutrition and weight gain/loss is on the dot. Stress (work) and Sleep is not 100% but I try and get 7 to 8 hours most days.

I’m tired of making mistakes spinning wheels and ready to make some gains on my squat and bench.

[TryingBB]

sounds like you're running some inferior reddit version of greyskull ...

with that said if a program is absolutely not working for you, no point trying to run yourself into the ground for it

skim read through it but are you actually doing the greyskull resets? i.e bring the weight down when you fail and try to AMRAP your last sets and set PRs there? That's how you get your additional volume and autoregulation. For example on Week 1 you did 115 for 2x5 on bench press and 7 reps on the last set. Week 5 you stall at 135. So on week 6 you go back to say 115 lbs, you should in theory be able to get more than 7 reps on the last set, say maybe 9 reps. IMO that is the key of Greyskull and what separates it from other programs. That last set where you are doing more reps should be a key driver of growth.

With that said why is your squat so low?

Yes I do reset 10%. So if I fail 135lbs I drop to 120lbs and build back up. Issue is 120lbs feel lighter yes but when I get back to 125lbs or 130lbs several workouts later, it feels as heavy as before. Don’t think it’s mental but could be - it’s not significantly easier like everyone claims to say it should be.

More volume seems to help me feel the weight is easier and muscles feel better also and fresher and recovered and pumped.

My squat - I dunno. Maybe it’s body proportions - my bellybutton is pretty high and I have to wear my pants several inches below my bellybutton for it to looks normal. lol. I keep falling forward out of the hole. So I come down fine but right out of the hole bar and head just goes forward several inches. Tried everything can’t help it.

Then Last couple workouts I switched to low bar squat and feel so much more balanced. I don’t have to do any work to balance the bar. Just pure open the legs / knees, squat down and back up without worrying too much about balance and lean forward anymore. I still don’t feel squats too much in my glutes - it some of the glutes and more quads. I’m gonna try and keep doing low bar for now.

That being said I did go from a flat butt to having a much much better protruding butt - so something is working. Just my squat numbers are not going up too much

[air2fakie]

my bellybutton is pretty high and I have to wear my pants several inches below my bellybutton for it to looks normal. lol.

I know you can't see it, but most of us not named Urkel are also wearing our pants below our belly buttons. :P

[TryingBB]

I know you can't see it, but most of us not named Urkel are also wearing our pants below our belly buttons. :P

Not trying to brag bro but mine is about/over 6 inches below. Maybe that’s normal - haven’t measured any other male ever. Measured plenty of females tho and they wear it all over the place above on and below

[air2fakie]

Not trying to brag bro but mine is about/over 6 inches below. Maybe that’s normal

No, that's borderline indecent exposure for most.

[TryingBB]

No, that's borderline indecent exposure for most.

My chick has perfect bodyfat storage genetics man. She’ll put on fat but it goes all over her body. She has model tier proportions and looks. Srs. She’ll loose fat and it comes from all over her body also.

I ain’t comparing myself to her but my fat genetics and proportions genetics are chit tier...haha...and fking misc made me aware. I had no clue. I was just happy my chick is hot as fuk but now I notice these things and man, this chit is real. How much it affects aesthetics is crazy as fuk

I’m glad I got a butt now and my fuken pants are not always sliding down like before...