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  1. #91
    temporary illusion supramax's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Transitions are not treatment. It’s been shown that many champions have had some type of disadvantage, these people actually become champions because disadvantages make people better when they deal with them.

    Hence real treatment for a man who thinks they are a women is to NEVER transition hormone wise but use the handicap to fuel thier desire, if they want to dress and act like a female naturally compete and beat men, not women.
    I'm not sure, but I think that without the delusion, that's just called a cross dresser and I'm sure you'll be reprimanded for saying the word 'handicap'.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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  2. #92
    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Transitions are not treatment. It’s been shown that many champions have had some type of disadvantage, these people actually become champions because disadvantages make people better when they deal with them.

    Hence real treatment for a man who thinks they are a women is to NEVER transition hormone wise but use the handicap to fuel thier desire, if they want to dress and act like a female naturally compete and beat men, not women.
    I am not sure the goal was a championship but if so, Fox did show a pretty impressive commitment to go through the process of a gender reassignment surgery and all that entails to try to reach it.
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  3. #93
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    I am not sure the goal was a championship but if so, Fox did show a pretty impressive commitment to go through the process of a gender reassignment surgery and all that entails to try to reach it.
    Champions are examples, for instance Doug Hepburn had a pretty hampering disability with his leg, yet he became a champion Olympic lifter with still a disadvantage and he even talked about how people shouldn’t feel like raising yourself up is a bad thing. His thought were his disability made him become a better fighter to get there, he looked at it as an advantage.

    But competing in sports is the topic, these girly men shouldn’t play with hormones and feed the mad doctors, they should just defeat men in thier sport.
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  4. #94
    OCB Pro smokinal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cchuck4 View Post
    I couldn’t care less. It’s so rare that the same case in Connecticut gets brought up over and over. It is absolutely hilarious that you people are making a big deal over something that’s extremely rare.
    This is not going to be rare.
    You hear about a few cases that were pushed. There's going to be thousands and thousands of these that schools, parents, coaches etc... just let go because they don't want to fight the fight.

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  5. #95
    Nihilist Karl_Hungus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cchuck4 View Post
    I couldn’t care less. It’s so rare that the same case in Connecticut gets brought up over and over. It is absolutely hilarious that you people are making a big deal over something that’s extremely rare.
    The problem is that it only takes one or two to smash all the women's records and make it impossible for them to compete, and it isn't just this Connecticut case. I've read accounts of trans "women" dominating women's cycling, track and field, women's wrestling, women's powerlifting, etc...and we are still pretty early into this. It is going to get more common, not less, so we might want to figure this stuff out while still in these early stages.

    Your point about it being extremely rare is exactly why I think it is ridiculous that we have to turn things upside down to accommodate the wishes of a tiny minority. Life isn't fair, and sometimes there isn't anything we can do to make it fair, so we have to choose the most favorable balance. Trying to make things fair for the 0.01% by making it unfair for 99.99% makes no sense to me. Best solution IMO is to have trans athletes compete against men.
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  6. #96
    Nihilist Karl_Hungus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cchuck4 View Post
    get a life
    So, in other words, you've got nothing to say on the matter and just want to emote.
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  7. #97
    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    Best solution IMO is to have trans athletes compete against men.
    This is probably what has to happen. Most, if not all, states exempt medically-prescribed testosterone and other drugs from prohibition. So the way most legislation has been suggested to have athletes compete with there biological sex means there could still be men (FtM trans men) dominating women’s athletics. The advantage an FtM man gets from hormone therapy is greater than an MtF woman would get from her natural male bone structure and musculature (which start to deteriorate under hormone blockers and other transformation therapy) especially at these young ages.

    I don’t know the answer but the federal government should be kept out of it and local government and private individual sporting organizations should decide their own policy.
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  8. #98
    Nihilist Karl_Hungus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    This is probably what has to happen. Most, if not all, states exempt medically-prescribed testosterone and other drugs from prohibition. So the way most legislation has been suggested to have athletes compete with there biological sex means there could still be men (FtM trans men) dominating women’s athletics. The advantage an FtM man gets from hormone therapy is greater than an MtF woman would get from her natural male bone structure and musculature (which start to deteriorate under hormone blockers and other transformation therapy) especially at these young ages.

    I don’t know the answer but the federal government should be kept out of it and local government and private individual sporting organizations should decide their own policy.
    ^^Yup. Agree with this 100%.
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  9. #99
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    I don’t know the answer
    It's easy really, doctors should not be allowed to fuk with a minors hormones because they think they are another sex. As we age things change, men become girly due to low test, women end up lifting more than most men without any assistance.

    I've seen a 43 year old woman dead lift 385 pretty damn easy, with only 3 years training.

    I seriously question a doctor that would fuk up a youths hormones, things change when they grow up, sometimes mindsets change.

    I don't know what Bruce Jenner thinks? but at least he did compete against men and did what he did much later in life, but I don't what he did hormone wise.
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  10. #100
    Knotty by Nature ChazWood's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    I don't know what Bruce Jenner thinks? but at least he did compete against men and did what he did much later in life, but I don't what he did hormone wise.
    You mean Caitlyn.



    I dont see no bulge. I wonder if he's an organ donor or they just chucked it.

    any thoughts?
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  11. #101
    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    It's easy really, doctors should not be allowed to fuk with a minors hormones because they think they are another sex. As we age things change, men become girly due to low test, women end up lifting more than most men without any assistance.

    I've seen a 43 year old woman dead lift 385 pretty damn easy, with only 3 years training.

    I seriously question a doctor that would fuk up a youths hormones, things change when they grow up, sometimes mindsets change.

    I don't know what Bruce Jenner thinks? but at least he did compete against men and did what he did much later in life, but I don't what he did hormone wise.
    From what I have been reading transition is a very long, slow, cautious process for trans youth. For preadolescents it is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest.

    This specter of little kids being pressured into transition and rapidly pushed into permanent physical changes is a myth. It just isn't happening.
    Last edited by 7Seconds; 02-24-2021 at 08:06 PM.
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  12. #102
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    From what I have been reading transition is a very long, slow, cautious process for trans youth. For preadolescents it is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest.

    This specter of little kids being pressured into transition and rapidly pushed into permanent physical changes is a myth. It just isn't happening.

    I never speculated your last sentence.

    But doctors are doing the work, are they telling these confused youth that, well hey, you are a boy/girl and you should at least try and suck it up for a few decades first?
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  13. #103
    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    I never speculated your last sentence.

    But doctors are doing the work, are they telling these confused youth that, well hey, you are a boy/girl and you should at least try and suck it up for a few decades first?
    I’m still reading but so far I have to say the arguments presented by the American Academy of Pediatrics and The Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry, while lacking in lifting stats of random people they have encountered in their past, are stronger than yours. I will keep an open mind, though.
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  14. #104
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    while lacking in lifting stats

    Well that's their problem then, lifting opens many doors to the universe, if one does not get caught up in the hype and pressure of being the total bro package
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    Knotty by Nature ChazWood's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Well that's their problem then, lifting opens many doors to the universe, if one does not get caught up in the hype and pressure of being the total bro package
    Dude, TBP should be effortless. Like flowing water.

    and you're the only other person using that stupid quote besides me, ya dipchit!
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  16. #106
    Registered User sy2502's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    I assume some transgender folks get upset about being called mentally ill because transgenderism itself is not a mental illness.
    Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree there... When 2 key systems (your mental self and uh all the rest all the way down to every XY chromosome in every cell in your body) are out of sync I don't know how else to call it.

    Dysphoria comes in many forms and isnt restricted to transgender people (it is the opposite of euphoria). It becomes a disorder when it is persistent and damaging to a person's ability to function but not every transgender person suffers from gender dysphoria. I would assume many live quite well in fact.
    Clearly they suffer enough that they go through incredibly painful medical procedures and then take medications for the rest of their lives (if it's not a illness why have surgery and take medications one wonders...). I know 2 people, one of them went through the full gender reassignment thing, I assure you it is not something people would normally put themselves through. Moreover because of all the surgeries she suffered a minor stroke which could have killed or left her severely disabled. So good luck telling me it's not a disease.

    If trans have a problem with the term "illness" that only reflects their own stigma against illness.
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  17. #107
    temporary illusion supramax's Avatar
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    It's a ****ing mental illness!
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

    It's easy to not be afraid of tigers when you're sitting in your living room watching a television program about tigers. When you're in the jungle where the tigers are, it's quite a different story.
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    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    It's a ****ing mental illness!
    So?
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    So?
    No so.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

    It's easy to not be afraid of tigers when you're sitting in your living room watching a television program about tigers. When you're in the jungle where the tigers are, it's quite a different story.
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    It's a ****ing mental illness!
    The actual feeling of "thinking you're another gender" is called "Gender Dysphoria", and "transgender" individuals "transition" in order to treat "Gender Dysphoria."

    Being transgender does not fall under a mental disorder because a mental disorder requires it to be statistically/socially abnormal and cause the person distress and stop them from doing normal things. For all intents and purposes, a person who has transitioned no longer has gender dysphoria, which means they don't have distress or problems doing normal activities anymore. Hence, not mentally disordered.
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    No so.
    What's the point of saying that? They still have to abide by the same laws whether they do or not so what does it matter? You can label me mentally ill too, I'm still gonna do the same things I'm doing now.
    Or are you saying that because it's illness, taxpayers should pay for the surgeries, or they should be covered? I don't even know whether they are or not.
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    You can take an answer straight from the APA:

    A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.

    According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."
    http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    The actual feeling of "thinking you're another gender" is called "Gender Dysphoria", and "transgender" individuals "transition" in order to treat "Gender Dysphoria."

    Being transgender does not fall under a mental disorder because a mental disorder requires it to be statistically/socially abnormal and cause the person distress and stop them from doing normal things. For all intents and purposes, a person who has transitioned no longer has gender dysphoria, which means they don't have distress or problems doing normal activities anymore. Hence, not mentally disordered.
    Like the doctor said in a previously posted link: 'if you want to cut off an arm or a leg, you're classed as mentally ill, but if you want to cut off healthy breasts or genitals, you're not mentally ill, you're transgender.'
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    Like the doctor said in a previously posted link: 'if you want to cut off an arm or a leg, you're classed as mentally ill, but if you want to cut off healthy breasts or genitals, you're not mentally ill, you're transgender.'
    What is your fukkin point?

    You just wanna call someone mentally ill, that's it? Okay so?
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    What's the point of saying that? ...
    In a nutshell, because people are afraid to call it WTF it actually is. Someone messaged me about academia even being afraid to just debate the matter. The term isn't an insult anymore than a physical illness is.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    What is your fukkin point?

    You just wanna call someone mentally ill, that's it? Okay so?
    You're still upset about the binge eating comment.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    The actual feeling of "thinking you're another gender" is called "Gender Dysphoria", and "transgender" individuals "transition" in order to treat "Gender Dysphoria."

    Being transgender does not fall under a mental disorder because a mental disorder requires it to be statistically/socially abnormal and cause the person distress and stop them from doing normal things. For all intents and purposes, a person who has transitioned no longer has gender dysphoria, which means they don't have distress or problems doing normal activities anymore. Hence, not mentally disordered.
    But, if a person like deeks has that feeling of being another gender, how is society supposed to know if that feeling is legitimate or if the person heard about it on Facebook and just wants attention, similar to why some children/teenagers cut themselves - for false sympathy and/or attention?
    Helping one person may not change the world, but it could change the world for one person.

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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    You're still upset about the binge eating comment.
    Lol no

    I think it's dangerous that academia is denying biology because now we're canceling science. So yeah, maybe we're talking about the same thing.
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    But, if a person like deeks has that feeling of being another gender, how is society supposed to know if that feeling is legitimate or if the person heard about it on Facebook and just wants attention, similar to why some children/teenagers cut themselves - for false sympathy and/or attention?
    I think Megan Fox, a famous Hollywood actress, said something like she knew already before her child was born, that it was her mother's instinct, that he was going to be a girl. That's so messed up. She has three boys that ALL look like girls.

    "When I became pregnant with Noah, I could feel, through my mother’s intuition I suppose, that he was not subscribing to gender stereotypes, so I decided to provide an environment for him early on that would allow him to discover how he wanted to express himself,” she says.

    Like WTF ^
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    Like the doctor said in a previously posted link: 'if you want to cut off an arm or a leg, you're classed as mentally ill, but if you want to cut off healthy breasts or genitals, you're not mentally ill, you're transgender.'

    Ah yes, your go to video on the topic of transgender. I have already commented on that organization so I will skip that.

    Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID) and Gender Dysphoria are not the same thing.

    In medicine and psychology, it's often not very useful to just look at the superficial symptoms and signs because a lot of things "look similar." While there's not a lot of mental disorders that look similar, admittedly GD and BIID look very similar.

    In BIID, cutting off limbs does not ease the patient's distress. It means they still have the mental disorder. In GD, transitioning does ease the patient's distress, meaning they no longer have the mental disorder. When we look at the lowest risk measures, GD doesn't perform well with classical drugs or other treatments. But it does respond to transitioning. BIID does respond to some treatments, but not amputating.

    So in a sense, while GD and BIID look similar, they're quite different, and BIID is more like anorexia than GD.

    Certainly no settled science here. Both are not very well understood. Many current models suggests that GD is due to abnormal hormonal balances in the developing fetus, meaning it's something that sticks around. While BIID is thought to be due to obsession.

    Again I have a very surface level understanding of all this as I only became interested in it recently due to a family friend so I could be misunderstanding what I have read or learned from him but it certainly makes sense to my uneducated mind.
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