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  1. #121
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    I think Megan Fox, a famous Hollywood actress, said something like she knew already before her child was born, that it was her mother's instinct, that he was going to be a girl. That's so messed up. She has three boys that ALL look like girls.

    "When I became pregnant with Noah, I could feel, through my mother’s intuition I suppose, that he was not subscribing to gender stereotypes, so I decided to provide an environment for him early on that would allow him to discover how he wanted to express himself,” she says.

    Like WTF ^
    Yes ma’am, that is messed up.
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  2. #122
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    But, if a person like deeks has that feeling of being another gender, how is society supposed to know if that feeling is legitimate or if the person heard about it on Facebook and just wants attention, similar to why some children/teenagers cut themselves - for false sympathy and/or attention?
    Nothing stops someone from putting on a wig and saying they feel like a woman. But in order to actually go through the process of transitioning (at least here in the US) they do need a medical diagnosis.
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  3. #123
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Nothing stops someone from putting on a wig and saying they feel like a woman. But in order to actually go through the process of transitioning (at least here in the US) they do need a medical diagnosis.
    IMO, that medical diagnosis is probably very lenient, dependent upon geographical area and the person(s) making the diagnosis. So, in other words, in certain areas, all the person needs to do to pass, is say, "I am a biological male, but since I was a kid, I played with Barbie and I wore dresses at home." I have read where a mother is considering hormone treatment for her child under the age of 10, so it cannot be too hard to pass that diagnosis, as it is more of a choice rather than going through some medical procedure.

    I would like to know what that medical diagnosis procedure actually is. I do doubt many are turned away from their decisions.
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  4. #124
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    IMO, that medical diagnosis is probably very lenient, dependent upon geographical area and the person(s) making the diagnosis. So, in other words, in certain areas, all the person needs to do to pass, is say, "I am a biological male, but since I was a kid, I played with Barbie and I wore dresses at home." I have read where a mother is considering hormone treatment for her child under the age of 10, so it cannot be too hard to pass that diagnosis, as it is more of a choice rather than going through some medical procedure.

    I would like to know what that medical diagnosis procedure actually is. I do doubt many are turned away from their decisions.

    Here are the guidelines released by the American Academy of Pediatrics.

    http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documen...nsChildren.pdf

    TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender identity, and some of those young kids are trans. A child whose gender identity is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their appearance, will suffer distress over this conflict.

    When this happens, transition is the treatment recommended by every major medical authority. For young children this process is purely social; it consists of allowing the child to express their gender identity as comes naturally to them.

    For adolescents, the first line of medical intervention is puberty delaying treatment. This treatment is 100% temporary and fully reversible; it does nothing but buy time by delaying the onset of permanent physical changes. This treatment is very safe and well known, because it has been used for decades to delay puberty in children who would have otherwise started it inappropriately young. If an adolescent starts this treatment, then realizes medical transition isn't what they need, they stop treatment and puberty picks up where it left off. There are no permanent effects.

    But if an adolescent starts this treatment, socially transitions (or continues if they have already done so), and by their early/mid-teens they still strongly identify as a gender atypical to their appearance at birth, the chances of them changing their minds later are basically zero. At that point hormone therapy becomes an option, and even that is still reversible, especially in its early stages. The only really irreversible step is reconstructive genital surgery and/or the removal of one's gonads, which isn't an option until the patient is in their late teens at the earliest.
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  5. #125
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    ^^Thanks for the post, 7.
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  6. #126
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    ^^Thanks for the post, 7.
    Not trying to be argumentative about it. The quote I posted yesterday from a father dealing with a trans child is something I saw on a local Facebook board not to long ago and it really struck a chord with me as a father. I can get a bit obsessive about things that interest me at times and this would be one of those times. Anyways, always enjoy the conversation.
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  7. #127
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Not trying to be argumentative about it. The quote I posted yesterday from a father dealing with a trans child is something I saw on a local Facebook board not to long ago and it really struck a chord with me as a father. I can get a bit obsessive about things that interest me at times and this would be one of those times. Anyways, always enjoy the conversation.
    I didn’t think you were arguing. I sincerely appreciated the post.
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  8. #128
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    Like the doctor said in a previously posted link: 'if you want to cut off an arm or a leg, you're classed as mentally ill, but if you want to cut off healthy breasts or ge Cut off yiurnitals, you're not mentally ill, you're transgender.'
    The fcking stupidity behind this is fcking retarded..Cut off your arm you're crazy cut off your dick you're normal, Jesus fcking christ. What a sh!th0le we live in
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  9. #129
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    There is a difference between gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia.

    Dysmorphia is an anxiety disorder on the OCD spectrum. It is characterized by obsessive fixation on tiny or imaginary physical flaws which the sufferer perceives as grotesque deformities.

    The suffering caused by dysmorphia is rooted in clinical obsession and the inability to recognize what they actually look like. Changing the trait they perceive as a deformity doesn't alleviate it, because they will continue to see themselves as deformed no matter what they look like. They will either find fault with any attempted repair or just transfer their obsession to a new tiny or imaginary flaw that they perceive as a grotesque deformity.

    Physical treatment has no no end point for dysmorphia sufferers, no point at which they will stop perceiving themselves as deformed and be satisfied with their appearance.

    Physical treatment doesn't alleviate dysmorphia. But therapy to help them better recognize that these physical flaws are minor or imaginary, coupled with medication to control obsessive tendencies, does.

    And anorexia works the same way. There is no point at which an anorexic will conclude that they have lost enough weight and are satisfied with their appearance. They will continue to perceive themselves as overweight until they starve to death.

    Gender dysphoria does not work like that. People suffering from dysphoria have perfectly objective recognition of their appearance, the only problem is that certain aspects of their appearance are not appropriate to their gender.

    Unlike dysmorphia and anorexia, therapy and medication do next to nothing to alleviate dysphoria - but physical changes do. Because the dysphoria sufferer has an objective recognition of their body, and of the specific aspects of it that are inappropriate to their gender, physical treatment is extremely effective at alleviating it.
    Last edited by 7Seconds; 02-25-2021 at 04:17 PM.
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  10. #130
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    There is a difference between gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia.

    Dysmorphia is an anxiety disorder on the OCD spectrum. It is characterized by obsessive fixation on tiny or imaginary physical flaws which the sufferer perceives as grotesque deformities.

    The suffering caused by dysmorphia is rooted in clinical obsession and the inability to recognize what they actually look like. Changing the trait they perceive as a deformity doesn't alleviate it, because they will continue to see themselves as deformed no matter what they look like. They will either find fault with any attempted repair or just transfer their obsession to a new tiny or imaginary flaw that they perceive as a grotesque deformity.

    Physical treatment has no no end point for dysmorphia sufferers, no point at which they will stop perceiving themselves as deformed and be satisfied with their appearance.

    Physical treatment doesn't alleviate dysmorphia. But therapy to help them better recognize that these physical flaws are minor or imaginary, coupled with medication to control obsessive tendencies, does.

    And anorexia works the same way. There is no point at which an anorexic will conclude that they have lost enough weight and are satisfied with their appearance. They will continue to perceive themselves as overweight until they starve to death.

    Gender dysphoria does not work like that. People suffering from dysphoria have perfectly objective recognition of their appearance, the only problem is that certain aspects of their appearance are not appropriate to their gender.

    Unlike dysmorphia and anorexia, therapy and medication do next to nothing to alleviate dysphoria - but physical changes do. Because the dysphoria sufferer has an objective recognition of their body, and of the specific aspects of it that are inappropriate to their gender, physical treatment is extremely effective at alleviating it.

    Dysphoria can be crippling, and therapy and medication do nothing to alleviate it. But evidence shows transition works. It vastly improves the mental health, social functionality, and quality of life for those who need it.
    Actually, if you look at Body Integrity Identity Disorder, it isn't about perceived flaws, but rather a subjective sense that the body part is foreign and should not be part of their body. Because physicians will not perform the surgery, we can't possibly have the data we need to properly evaluate whether doing do would be effective in relieving psychological symptoms. I read one case where a guy cut off his arm, surgeons reattached it, and he cut it off again. He was much happier afterward. The disorders are similar in that they both feel their body does not match their internal subjective sense of who they are, and believe they can remedy it by surgically destroying body parts. The reason why people are reluctant to draw parallels between them is that most of us clearly recognize that BIID is nuts...And we can do that because our thinking isn't colored by all of the social conditioning that surrounds anything to do with sex or gender.

    Question for you: If it could be shown that people with BIID could be psychologically helped by cutting off their limbs, should physicians perform this surgery? What about trans-abled individuals? If they could be psychologically helped by severing their spinal cords, should we do it? I suspect that in 50-100 years, we are going to look at transgender surgery the way we look at bleeding people with leeches or trepanation.
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  11. #131
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    Here we are as citizens discussing if trangenders are real or not and when they should be self-identified and also medical evaluations.

    The reality is that politicians only want the LGBTQ community vote and don’t give a shiit about any discussion. Same with loose immigration.

    Transgenders and immigrants are merely pawns.

    Come at me.
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  12. #132
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    Actually, if you look at Body Integrity Identity Disorder, it isn't about perceived flaws, but rather a subjective sense that the body part is foreign and should not be part of their body. Because physicians will not perform the surgery, we can't possibly have the data we need to properly evaluate whether doing do would be effective in relieving psychological symptoms. I read one case where a guy cut off his arm, surgeons reattached it, and he cut it off again. He was much happier afterward. The disorders are similar in that they both feel their body does not match their internal subjective sense of who they are, and believe they can remedy it by surgically destroying body parts. The reason why people are reluctant to draw parallels between them is that most of us clearly recognize that BIID is nuts...And we can do that because our thinking isn't colored by all of the social conditioning that surrounds anything to do with sex or gender.

    Question for you: If it could be shown that people with BIID could be psychologically helped by cutting off their limbs, should physicians perform this surgery? What about trans-abled individuals? If they could be psychologically helped by severing their spinal cords, should we do it? I suspect that in 50-100 years, we are going to look at transgender surgery the way we look at bleeding people with leeches or trepanation.
    First off I did not know trans-able was a thing until now. As for your question, and I am sincerely not trying to be obtuse, but isn't the argument (whether you accept it or not) for accepting gender dysphoria, is that there is more of a biological element to it and not psychological?
    Last edited by 7Seconds; 02-25-2021 at 06:22 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Here we are as citizens discussing if trangenders are real or not and when they should be self-identified and also medical evaluations.

    The reality is that politicians only want the LGBTQ community vote and don’t give a shiit about any discussion. Same with loose immigration.

    Transgenders and immigrants are merely pawns.

    Come at me.
    Wedge issues for the win. Gotta love are two party system.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Wedge issues for the win. Gotta love are two party system.
    Agreed. Absolute description of a wedge issue. Cruel and most disingenuous wedge issue.
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Transgenders and immigrants are merely pawns.
    But at least immigrants are normal, wait wut some might be trannys, fck never mind...
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    Originally Posted by bodyhard View Post
    But at least immigrants are normal, wait wut some might be trannys, fck never mind...
    Lol, Johnny.
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    First off I did not know trans-able was a thing until now. As for your question, and I am sincerely not trying to be obtuse, but isn't the argument (whether you accept it or not) for accepting gender dysphoria, is that there is a biological element to it and not psychological?
    There is scarcely a single behavioral or psychological trait that doesn't have some biological component to it...So from my perspective, it doesn't matter. And, I do accept gender dysphoria...I just don't like that we allow social pressure to define (and even ban) questions of medical ethics and treatment options, and that we somehow accord gender dysphoria special status relative to other disorders that share similar psychological characteristics.
    It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
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  18. #138
    Nihilist Karl_Hungus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    .

    Come at me.
    Bro?
    It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
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  19. #139
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    Bro?
    I'm not a bro.
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  20. #140
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    Bro?
    Not you, Karlito.

    P.s. Cassie is the sassiest lady alive no question, but not a bro.
    Helping one person may not change the world, but it could change the world for one person.

    Misc Blood Drive: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175220881
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  21. #141
    Da1UnV bodyhard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    I'm not a bro.
    That AV suggest otherwise...
    On the list for Bannukah
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    Knotty by Nature ChazWood's Avatar
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    Much too much awesome chit to comment on. Supreme Quality thread. Real top shelf stuff, peeps.

    Now to the business at hand.

    We gotta band together and get Cass to ditch that AV and put the old one back. Wait, not old. Previous one. You're not old.

    Anyways, let's agree to stop posting at 12 midnight, Friday night, GMT, if Cass does not ditch that horrible AV. Permanently.

    Who's with?

    and sorry for the mother (who used to be a dude) of all derails.

    Didn't want to completely embarrass the girl by making a tread aboot this.
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  23. #143
    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ChazWood View Post
    Much too much awesome chit to comment on. Supreme Quality thread. Real top shelf stuff, peeps.

    Now to the business at hand.

    We gotta band together and get Cass to ditch that AV and put the old one back. Wait, not old. Previous one. You're not old.

    Anyways, let's agree to stop posting at 12 midnight, Friday night, GMT, if Cass does not ditch that horrible AV. Permanently.

    Who's with?

    and sorry for the mother (who used to be a dude) of all derails.

    Didn't want to completely embarrass the girl by making a tread aboot this.
    Some might like it, doe.
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  24. #144
    Knotty by Nature ChazWood's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Some might like it, doe.
    They liars.

    EDIT: doh.
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    Cass, I'm just breaking your balls a little bit. Fact is I'm super-amped to be cleared and back LIFTING (and feeling good aboot that) and wanted to come here and break some balls.

    EDIT: to show my appreciation for helping me survive the last 6 months.
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  26. #146
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    Originally Posted by ChazWood View Post
    Cass, I'm just breaking your balls a little bit. Fact is I'm super-amped to be cleared and back LIFTING (and feeling good aboot that) and wanted to come here and break some balls.

    EDIT: to show my appreciation for helping me survive the last 6 months.
    I don't have balls, doe.
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  27. #147
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    I don't have balls, doe.
    We've been through this...

    EDIT: (insert gender) I AM DISAPPOINT.
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  28. #148
    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ChazWood View Post
    We've been through this...
    We have not! I've never had balls.

    Congrats on your lifting doe
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  29. #149
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    We have not! I've never had balls.

    Congrats on your lifting doe
    Thanks!

    and I dont mean literal balls. Like actual hairy, sweaty ballz!!!

    I mean it as a "grit" thing. Like toughness.

    EDIT: and DO NOT say tough balls!
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  30. #150
    Quarantined Finja Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ChazWood View Post
    Thanks!

    and I dont mean literal balls. Like actual hairy, sweaty ballz!!!

    I mean it as a "grit" thing. Like toughness.

    EDIT: and DO NOT say tough balls!
    Das groce. Staph.
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