Plateaued for 3-4 weeks. Need advice.

[imirish34]

It often contains systematic biases. To get an idea, compare the calorie counts of the app with what is stated on the food labels. Use the most conservative estimate. Does this change your estimate of what you have been eating? Bear in mind that food labels are also allowed to be 20% off and this is typically in the direction of underestimating calories, but I think it's more reliable than the app.

Did you eat rice/pasta at some point (often mistakes here)? How many calories did you assume that is?

Right, one of the quickest examples I can think of are the broccoli cuts I buy from walmart. MyFitnessPal shows its 20cals a serving but the bag says 25 so I go off what the bag says and not the app. I'll vice versa it too when necessary. The one thing I think that may cause a variance is when I weigh my chicken. I let it defrost in the fridge overnight and drain the juice out of the bag before cooking it. Of course it loses some water weight when I do that so I wonder a bit if the raw data i put in for that chicken is a bit off compared to weighing it frozen.

[Rustedd]

"Activity: Sedentary outside of gym. Usually walk with a 40lb vest just to get the blood pumping on off days for about 15-20 minutes."

I didn't catch anyone else mentioning this, and if so- sorry for the repetition. What has helped me during times of plateau has been increasing my overall activity as my diet goes on. Before decreasing calories I've found it helpful to increase the amount of calories burned. I'm not saying jump into HIIT or start running 30 miles a week, but try increasing your activity throughout the day, if you can increase your weighted walks by 10 mins on your off days, on your strength training days try incorporating a 15-20 min walk with or w/o your vest.

Cheers

[TheResistance]

Stop trying to count, just look at the scale and eat less if it doesn't go down.

[imirish34]

"Activity: Sedentary outside of gym. Usually walk with a 40lb vest just to get the blood pumping on off days for about 15-20 minutes."

I didn't catch anyone else mentioning this, and if so- sorry for the repetition. What has helped me during times of plateau has been increasing my overall activity as my diet goes on. Before decreasing calories I've found it helpful to increase the amount of calories burned. I'm not saying jump into HIIT or start running 30 miles a week, but try increasing your activity throughout the day, if you can increase your weighted walks by 10 mins on your off days, on your strength training days try incorporating a 15-20 min walk with or w/o your vest.

Cheers

Forsure, thanks brotha. I went for a 2 mile walk/jog/run yesterday with the vest for pretty much the same reason so I'll definitely keep at it. It's been tough cause recovery on this low of calories already has me feelin the effects lol but at this point.. Whatever it takes. Thanks for the input :]

[AwakeningDragon]

7-10 Day diet break eat at maintenance or slightly less 2700-3000 calories 40/40/20 split. You could gain up to 5-10 pounds of water and glycogen because your muscles and liver are completely empty right now. You've crashed everything that makes your body run properly. Starvation mode is real.

After I recommend carb cycling Highx2 360carbs 2300cals, Mediumx2 150 carbs 1800cals, Lowx3 60 carbs 2100cals. high and medium on training days.

Or just keep doing the same thing and cutting calories and ignore the above.

[EiFit91]

7-10 Day diet break eat at maintenance or slightly less 2700-3000 calories 40/40/20 split. You could gain up to 5-10 pounds of water and glycogen because your muscles and liver are completely empty right now. You've crashed everything that makes your body run properly. Starvation mode is real.

After I recommend carb cycling Highx2 360carbs 2300cals, Mediumx2 150 carbs 1800cals, Lowx3 60 carbs 2100cals. high and medium on training days.

Or just keep doing the same thing and cutting calories and ignore the above.

Starvation mode is a myth. "Metabolic adaptation" is real, but much less important than people often suggest.

[snailsrus]

7-10 Day diet break eat at maintenance or slightly less 2700-3000 calories 40/40/20 split. You could gain up to 5-10 pounds of water and glycogen because your muscles and liver are completely empty right now. You've crashed everything that makes your body run properly. Starvation mode is real.

After I recommend carb cycling Highx2 360carbs 2300cals, Mediumx2 150 carbs 1800cals, Lowx3 60 carbs 2100cals. high and medium on training days.

Or just keep doing the same thing and cutting calories and ignore the above.

starvation mode isn’t real, even more so with op’s situation wizard ^^

[faithbrah]

7-10 Day diet break eat at maintenance or slightly less 2700-3000 calories 40/40/20 split. You could gain up to 5-10 pounds of water and glycogen because your muscles and liver are completely empty right now. You've crashed everything that makes your body run properly. Starvation mode is real.

After I recommend carb cycling Highx2 360carbs 2300cals, Mediumx2 150 carbs 1800cals, Lowx3 60 carbs 2100cals. high and medium on training days.

Or just keep doing the same thing and cutting calories and ignore the above.

pretty outdated information with all the macro splits, starvation mode and carb cycling stuff

[AwakeningDragon]

excuse me your simply changing the word Starvation with Metabolic Adaption. His body's mineral and nutrient levels are low and his metabolism is crushed. OP has been in a severe caloric deficit for months and his body efficiency is way down. The only answers I've seen in this thread is that OP is a liar, and he needs to cut calories lower and/or count better.

[EiFit91]

excuse me your simply changing the word Starvation with Metabolic Adaption. His body's mineral and nutrient levels are low and his metabolism is crushed. OP has been in a severe caloric deficit for months and his body efficiency is way down. The only answers I've seen in this thread is that OP is a liar, and he needs to cut calories lower and/or count better.

No, it is a different thing. Starvation mode suggests that the metabolism somehow "crashes" in a calorie deficit so that it is impossible to lose weight. Metabolic adaptation refers to the fact that when people are in a calorie deficit, their energy expenditure drops below what you would predict from the reduced weight alone. It typically accounts for a small part of the total reduction in energy expenditure, and is reversed when people go back to energy balance.

To see that the "starvation mode" you refer to is a myth and not real, try to find an overweight or obese Auschwitz prisoner.

[SuffolkPunch]

excuse me your simply changing the word Starvation with Metabolic Adaption. His body's mineral and nutrient levels are low and his metabolism is crushed. OP has been in a severe caloric deficit for months and his body efficiency is way down. The only answers I've seen in this thread is that OP is a liar, and he needs to cut calories lower and/or count better.

Adaptations exist - but are small - perhaps 200 calories and most come from subconsciously changing NEAT levels (non exercise activity thermogenesis). It's not to do with being deficient in minerals.

People object to "starvation mode" because it's often used as an excuse to say that eating more will lead to weight loss. Usually what happens in this instance is that the person is retaining water (but still losing fat - only masked by the water weight). Temporarily eating more decreases stress levels and the water is often dropped. So the scales show a sudden loss. This is clearly misleading when the higher calorie level will actually reduce the rate of fat loss...

[imirish34]

7-10 Day diet break eat at maintenance or slightly less 2700-3000 calories 40/40/20 split. You could gain up to 5-10 pounds of water and glycogen because your muscles and liver are completely empty right now. You've crashed everything that makes your body run properly. Starvation mode is real.

After I recommend carb cycling Highx2 360carbs 2300cals, Mediumx2 150 carbs 1800cals, Lowx3 60 carbs 2100cals. high and medium on training days.

Or just keep doing the same thing and cutting calories and ignore the above.

maintenance or slightly less at 2700-3000? I bulked up to 210 at those calories. phew. I've never really believed in starvation mode but I'm interested to see what others say in regards to a diet break. Thanks for the input man, I'll take any info I can get

[SuffolkPunch]

Not precisely, no I've been between 188-190 is all I know. Scale doesn't do anything but whole and half numbers like 100 or 100.5.

Calorie totals for a specific week:
1,450
1,362
1,314
1,405
1,354
1,429.

I can't really do anything without the weigh-ins.

I was hoping to show that underlying weight loss was actually occurring. Just that pushing calories very low can lead to water retention which can last several weeks and then drop suddenly. If you do a "diet break" this is what will happen. If it doesn't the explanation is probably more mundane - miscounting something. Often it comes down to a simple mistake like weighing a dry ingredient when the calorie count on the label is given in prepared (wet) form.

[imirish34]

I can't really do anything without the weigh-ins.

I was hoping to show that underlying weight loss was actually occurring. Just that pushing calories very low can lead to water retention which can last several weeks and then drop suddenly. If you do a "diet break" this is what will happen. If it doesn't the explanation is probably more mundane - miscounting something. Often it comes down to a simple mistake like weighing a dry ingredient when the calorie count on the label is given in prepared (wet) form.

No worries man. I atleast know to start tracking weigh ins now because of your response so I'm thankful. I started counting weigh ins in my log at the beginning and end of my day starting yesterday so I'll post those within a week probably as part of my update. I did hit 186 this morning though for the first time ever. I figured it had to do with water weight because I dropped carbs significantly to 50 yesterday, with 26 of those being fiber. But nonetheless happy to see a number that wasn't between 187-200.

What causes water retention to occur more severely when dropping calories so low?

[SuffolkPunch]

Once you have 2 clear weeks, post the data here. You only need morning weigh-ins (after going to the toilet, before eating anything). This is probably the point of least variance.

[AwakeningDragon]

Adaptations exist - but are small - perhaps 200 calories and most come from subconsciously changing NEAT levels (non exercise activity thermogenesis). It's not to do with being deficient in minerals.

People object to "starvation mode" because it's often used as an excuse to say that eating more will lead to weight loss. Usually what happens in this instance is that the person is retaining water (but still losing fat - only masked by the water weight). Temporarily eating more decreases stress levels and the water is often dropped. So the scales show a sudden loss. This is clearly misleading when the higher calorie level will actually reduce the rate of fat loss...

I can understand that stance based on your take of what starvation mode is. It has never been proven that starvation mode does not exist. The main premises is the body will protect itself from severe situations. When your in freezing weather your body will burn more calories to keep you warm. When your in hot temperatures your body will perspire to cool your body. When your eating at a severe deficit for a long time it will slow down body functions and "turn off" un- essential functions ex. fasting( digestive tract). To claim "starvation mode" as a myth is moronic.

Your view as explained has value, but the majority of opinions I see here say "Do Not Cut Calories To Low" "1 to 2 pounds a week" without knowing why it is a horrible idea to do a massive deficit for a prolonged time. You will eventually hit a Plateau at 2000 deficit and no one here will have an answer except your a liar or cut to 1000cals. To think Adaptation( although very true) is the only factor at play is naive in my opinion.

[EiFit91]

I can understand that stance based on your take of what starvation mode is. It has never been proven that starvation mode does not exist. The main premises is the body will protect itself from severe situations. When your in freezing weather your body will burn more calories to keep you warm. When your in hot temperatures your body will perspire to cool your body. When your eating at a severe deficit for a long time it will slow down body functions and "turn off" un- essential functions ex. fasting( digestive tract). To claim "starvation mode" as a myth is moronic.

Your view as explained has value, but the majority of opinions I see here say "Do Not Cut Calories To Low" "1 to 2 pounds a week" without knowing why it is a horrible idea to do a massive deficit for a prolonged time. You will eventually hit a Plateau at 2000 deficit and no one here will have an answer except your a liar or cut to 1000cals. To think Adaptation( although very true) is the only factor at play is naive in my opinion.

It is not moronic, it is backed by science. Couple of examples:

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/articl...5/1212/5897225

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22327054/

And if you are right, concentration camp prisoners, people with anorexia etc should not all be dangerously underweight. Also see the "Minnesota Starvation Experiment" for what really happens when people cut calories very low for a prolonged period of time.

The burden of proof is on you.

[imirish34]

Once you have 2 clear weeks, post the data here. You only need morning weigh-ins (after going to the toilet, before eating anything). This is probably the point of least variance.

Sure thing

[Luclin999]

Starvation mode is real.

No, it's not. It's pure "Bro-science" garbage.

There is literally no reality in which a 6' 4" tall man can eat only 1400 cal/day and not lose weight. Even if he were lying in bed in a coma 24/7, he would still lose weight on that little an amount of calories.

[xsquid99]

7-10 Day diet break eat at maintenance or slightly less 2700-3000 calories 40/40/20 split. You could gain up to 5-10 pounds of water and glycogen because your muscles and liver are completely empty right now. You've crashed everything that makes your body run properly. Starvation mode is real.

Take a read... https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/

[TolerantLactose]

You will eventually hit a Plateau at 2000 deficit

Capitalization is appropriate. Eventually, you'd reach the final plateau.

Short term (a few days) is not a biggie, imo.

[AwakeningDragon]

Take a read... https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/

Thank you for this article. I agree the way it is defined in this article does not exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response

This is how I would define "starvation mode" which is an equivalent to the above link. If you were to read through my above posts you would see how I define it.

Since it seems to be a trigger word to a lot of people here I'll let it be.

[imirish34]

Update from the 21st until now.

Waking Weight/Calories at end of day

188.5/ 1,490
186/ 1,478
186/ 1,506
187/ 1,468
184.5/ 1,508
183.5/ 1,459
185/ 1,485

Week 2
185/ 1,444
185/ 1,400
184/ 1,479
184.5/ 1,372
183/ 1,497
184/ 1k(so far, current day)


I've definitely experienced the effects of squishy fat: bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat (can't post links yet, my apologies.)
And noticed some physique changes, especially around the day I weighed 183.5

Biggest things I've noted thus far is the hunger is much, much more intense the longer I've been at this deficit. The only thing stronger than that right now is the desire to change. Still though, the mental aspect of it is starting to take a hard toll.
I've also been much more thirsty but I account that to me just wanting to fill my stomach up with something so fluid intake is much higher. Urination has been a lot more frequent despite the thirst so I've been making sure to get more potassium and sodium in my diet. Everything else is about the same, otherwise.