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  1. #1
    Registered User JustinSmith52's Avatar
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    Is ghost a good pre workout?

    Does it have creatine? And does it give u energy? I’m interested in starting it and haven’t found anything about if it helps with strength during ur workout. Thanks.
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    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest you not buy it if you don't know what's actually in it and what it does.

    What pre-workout you choose is based on whether you want feelings of energy, pumps, focus or some combination of the three.
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  3. #3
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustinSmith52 View Post
    Does it have creatine? And does it give u energy? I’m interested in starting it and haven’t found anything about if it helps with strength during ur workout. Thanks.
    Yes

    Decent doses of citrulline, beta alanine and the big one for me (and very under rated) alpha gpc.

    Beta alanine has been proven in double blind placebo controlled studies (if you’d like a link let me know or google)

    Alpha gpc had also been proven for focus and strength. Again, If you need a link let me know.

    Citrulline is a good vasodilator...improved blood flow and lowers blood pressure.

    200mg of caffeine which to me is not high at all

    All ghosts protein powders taste amazing so I can’t see their ore workout being sub par
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    Registered User JustinSmith52's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Yes

    Decent doses of citrulline, beta alanine and the big one for me (and very under rated) alpha gpc.

    Beta alanine has been proven in double blind placebo controlled studies (if you’d like a link let me know or google)

    Alpha gpc had also been proven for focus and strength. Again, If you need a link let me know.

    Citrulline is a good vasodilator...improved blood flow and lowers blood pressure.

    200mg of caffeine which to me is not high at all

    All ghosts protein powders taste amazing so I can’t see their ore workout being sub par
    Ok cool! And does it have any creatine?
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    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustinSmith52 View Post
    Ok cool! And does it have any creatine?
    It does not
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    Registered User Ghawk21's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustinSmith52 View Post
    Ok cool! And does it have any creatine?
    Creatine works best when taken daily(5g/day) since it needs to reach a saturation point to be effective. When its sprinkled into pre-workouts it isn't going to do much of anything.
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  7. #7
    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Beta alanine has been proven in double blind placebo controlled studies (if you’d like a link let me know or google)
    Proven to do what? There is little to no value for weight training and body comp goals.
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by lucia316 View Post
    Proven to do what? There is little to no value for weight training and body comp goals.
    Wrong

    Google beta alanine on trained wrestlers, vs a placebo the BA group saw an increase in lbm and a loss in fat mass in 8 weeks. That’s only one study.

    Quote from the first hit on google for an alpha gpc study:
    “ A-GPC is effective at increasing lower body force production after 6 days of supplementation. Sport performance coaches can consider adding A-GPC to the diet of speed and power athletes to enhance muscle performance.”
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Wrong

    Google beta alanine on trained wrestlers, vs a placebo the BA group saw an increase in lbm and a loss in fat mass in 8 weeks. That’s only one study.

    Quote from the first hit on google for an alpha gpc study:
    “ A-GPC is effective at increasing lower body force production after 6 days of supplementation. Sport performance coaches can consider adding A-GPC to the diet of speed and power athletes to enhance muscle performance.”
    RE: the BA study. They took 4 grams/day and the results weren't even statistically significant. Taking a pre-workout on and off at ~1.6g isn't the same. They also only did a 3 day food record at week 3 out of an 8 week study so not really much control there. Not a very strong study overall.
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  12. #12
    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Wrong
    Oh wait...

    Originally Posted by Ghawk21 View Post
    RE: the BA study. They took 4 grams/day and the results weren't even statistically significant. Taking a pre-workout on and off at ~1.6g isn't the same. They also only did a 3 day food record at week 3 out of an 8 week study so not really much control there. Not a very strong study overall.
    Ouch. Pretty sure you didn't actually read through that...you would have seen the things Ghawk pointed out and other things like:
    1) Where the supplement groups gained more mass, but they also consumed more calories on the 3 days out of 8 weeks total that they did track...shocker. Not that this was very well controlled in the first place.
    2) My favorite part is where they try to explain away why statistical significance wasn't met because they did a poor job of setting up their study by having too much variation in their subjects. How does that even pass peer review?
    3) Point 2 exacerbates the poor results when you look at the body comp changes. They even celebrate this after they make the excuse about the subjects. Mind blown.
    4) A whole 1 second difference on average in flexed arm hang...woot!
    5) And the wonky standard deviations across the board.
    6) There was ZERO control over training protocols. None. Just eat whatever you want, take your 4g of BA or placebo and continue with your life either practicing or competing in-season with what you've been supplied by your coaches/trainers. Combine that with the lack of difference in end results, and you got a whole lot of nothing real.

    This sums it up pretty well:
    "The subjects taking β-alanine, FB supplement, and WR supplement, achieved more desirable results in all tests (mean values) compared to those on placebo, though no statistically significant difference was seen between mean change values - pre to posttreatment - on any tested variables."

    Not sure why you thought this supported your thesis, but then you didn't actually read it...sooo.

    Outside of things that require muscular endurance >2 hours, BA has no value.

    You can read through many studies all organized here: https://examine.com/supplements/beta-alanine/

    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Quote from the first hit on google for an alpha gpc study:
    “ A-GPC is effective at increasing lower body force production after 6 days of supplementation. Sport performance coaches can consider adding A-GPC to the diet of speed and power athletes to enhance muscle performance.”
    Cool. No one was talking about this...but thanks for the copy pasta.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Ghawk21 View Post
    RE: the BA study. They took 4 grams/day and the results weren't even statistically significant. Taking a pre-workout on and off at ~1.6g isn't the same. They also only did a 3 day food record at week 3 out of an 8 week study so not really much control there. Not a very strong study overall.
    In Response to the member who stated “ proven to do what? There is little to no value for weight training and body comp goals.”

    He is wrong

    It clearly states there is an increase in lean mass and reduction in bodyfat from supplementing with beta alanine.

    Now, did he mean from beta alanine or ghost or both? He wasn’t clear just a blanket statement with no evidence.
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  14. #14
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lucia316 View Post
    Oh wait...



    Ouch. Pretty sure you didn't actually read through that...you would have seen the things Ghawk pointed out and other things like:
    1) Where the supplement groups gained more mass, but they also consumed more calories on the 3 days out of 8 weeks total that they did track...shocker. Not that this was very well controlled in the first place.
    2) My favorite part is where they try to explain away why statistical significance wasn't met because they did a poor job of setting up their study by having too much variation in their subjects. How does that even pass peer review?
    3) Point 2 exacerbates the poor results when you look at the body comp changes. They even celebrate this after they make the excuse about the subjects. Mind blown.
    4) A whole 1 second difference on average in flexed arm hang...woot!
    5) And the wonky standard deviations across the board.
    6) There was ZERO control over training protocols. None. Just eat whatever you want, take your 4g of BA or placebo and continue with your life either practicing or competing in-season with what you've been supplied by your coaches/trainers. Combine that with the lack of difference in end results, and you got a whole lot of nothing real.

    This sums it up pretty well:
    "The subjects taking β-alanine, FB supplement, and WR supplement, achieved more desirable results in all tests (mean values) compared to those on placebo, though no statistically significant difference was seen between mean change values - pre to posttreatment - on any tested variables."

    Not sure why you thought this supported your thesis, but then you didn't actually read it...sooo.

    Outside of things that require muscular endurance >2 hours, BA has no value.

    You can read through many studies all organized here: https://examine.com/supplements/beta-alanine/



    Cool. No one was talking about this...but thanks for the copy pasta.
    Sure
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    In Response to the member who stated “ proven to do what? There is little to no value for weight training and body comp goals.”

    He is wrong

    It clearly states there is an increase in lean mass and reduction in bodyfat from supplementing with beta alanine.

    Now, did he mean from beta alanine or ghost or both? He wasn’t clear just a blanket statement with no evidence.
    There was nothing clear about it, the study was a mess. Small sample size, no controls, and no statistically significant results. Lucia gave a more thorough breakdown of the problems, I picked up on several just giving it a once over.

    You can't just read an article title, cherry pick a line out of the abstract and use it to prove a point.
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    Originally Posted by Ghawk21 View Post
    There was nothing clear about it, the study was a mess. Small sample size, no controls, and no statistically significant results. Lucia gave a more thorough breakdown of the problems, I picked up on several just giving it a once over.

    You can't just read an article title, cherry pick a line out of the abstract and use it to prove a point.
    I just did
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    I just did
    Okay cool, thank you for confirming you don't know how to read a research paper and that you haven't made a point. Carry on and happy Friday.
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    Originally Posted by Bigdumogre View Post
    Wtf is gong on in here
    Someone must’ve contacted you and told you to check out the thread
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  22. #22
    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    In Response to the member who stated “ proven to do what? There is little to no value for weight training and body comp goals.”

    He is wrong

    It clearly states there is an increase in lean mass and reduction in bodyfat from supplementing with beta alanine.

    Now, did he mean from beta alanine or ghost or both? He wasn’t clear just a blanket statement with no evidence.
    Your inability to interpret even the lack of statistical significance is the issue here. You say, "Sure," in response to the study you posted getting wrecked, but then, still have the balls to claim it's actually doing something?? /mindblown.


    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    I just did
    Dat lack of comprehension is strong. Pubmed ninjaing is totally "proof."

    Carry on with your day sir.
    "I'm pretty sure your wrong, but care to elaborate..."
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  23. #23
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lucia316 View Post
    Your inability to interpret even the lack of statistical significance is the issue here. You say, "Sure," in response to the study you posted getting wrecked, but then, still have the balls to claim it's actually doing something?? /mindblown.




    Dat lack of comprehension is strong. Pubmed ninjaing is totally "proof."

    Carry on with your day sir.
    Every time you reply, you sound angry and add zero value. May god have mercy on your soul.
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  24. #24
    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Every time you reply, you sound angry and add zero value. May god have mercy on your soul.
    LOL. Naw, just chuckling at chumps that think they know when they don't. Enjoy your BCAAs brah!
    "I'm pretty sure your wrong, but care to elaborate..."
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  25. #25
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lucia316 View Post
    LOL. Naw, just chuckling at chumps that think they know when they don't. Enjoy your BCAAs brah!
    Sure
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  26. #26
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
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    Coffee only as pre workout crew
    Age: 28
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  27. #27
    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Sure
    "I'm pretty sure your wrong, but care to elaborate..."
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  28. #28
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Coffee only as pre workout crew
    That’s 95 percent of the time for me
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  29. #29
    ✅ verified account Bigdumogre's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ManwittaPlan View Post
    Someone must’ve contacted you and told you to check out the thread
    Ummm no they dident. And dident realize you started the thread?
    50% of my posts are 100% factual
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  30. #30
    Registered User ManwittaPlan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bigdumogre View Post
    Ummm no they dident. And dident realize you started the thread?
    I started it all
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