Larry Bird is the greatest basketball player of all time

[Jaydawg08]

Bird had some clutch moments in that series, yeah it was not his best series but he was the reason they had won with all the other intangibles he provided such as defense, rebounding and playmaking. It's not like he rode the coat tails of the celtics roster and won a championship that way.

His teammates were hardly elite, he had Parish pretty much and that was it and even he had an off series.

Sustained greatness over a long period you have a point but peak Larry bird 84-86 is at least top 8 I would say

I guess it's a question over do you value peak vs sustained greatness. Also you mention Parish but are quite literally forgetting Cedric Maxwell who won FMVP and was clutch for multiple championships

People would never look at that series the same if the Celtics had lost ala the Heat in 2010.. Bird gets the pass because his teammates really stepped up when he really had a WORSE finals series than Lebron did. That's not a knock on Bird, just gives context to his great teams and his ability to affect the game in other areas when his shot isn't falling (since he only shot 41%)

[ApeXXXPredator]

The best basketball that has ever been played is when Magic and Bird were playing in the playoffs against one another.

[ApeXXXPredator]

I mean go look up their statistics, but Bird was a better rebounder and playmaker/passer than Kobe ever, while still being able to put up 25-30 ppg which is what Kobe put up in efficient numbers.

Bird turned a 29-63 team to 61-21 team and won ROY over Magic Johnson.

Oh and Larry Bird made 3 all-defensive teams in his career too.

Love Kobe, my favorite or 2nd favorite player ever, but Bird was better at least in his peak.

LOL @ anyone who thinks Kobe was better than Bird. Kobe was a better chucker than Bird throwing up brick after brick at pivotal moments in games.

[DynamicDot]

I guess it's a question over do you value peak vs sustained greatness. Also you mention Parish but are quite literally forgetting Cedric Maxwell who won FMVP and was clutch for multiple championships

People would never look at that series the same if the Celtics had lost ala the Heat in 2010.. Bird gets the pass because his teammates really stepped up when he really had a WORSE finals series than Lebron did. That's not a knock on Bird, just gives context to his great teams and his ability to affect the game in other areas when his shot isn't falling (since he only shot 41%)

You originally said Bird's peak was worse than Kobe's. That's the part that was wrong. On another note, what is your top 10 bball players of all-time?

[Jaydawg08]

You originally said Bird's peak was worse than Kobe's. That's the part that was wrong. On another note, what is your top 10 bball players of all-time?

I never stated that in my post. You just projected that I did because I came to the defense of Kobe saying that he was much more skilled offensively and defensively than prime Bird ever was. That's not a hot take, it's pretty well known that Kobe is right up there


I got by tiers --

1st - Jordan, LeBron

2nd - Kareem, Magic, Russell

3rd - Shaq, Wilt, Bird, Kobe, Hakeem


Not a hot take -- Durant and Curry make a valid argument for 3rd tier

[Noliberals4]

How? Kobe is one of the most skilled offensive players the game has ever seen and he's a MUCH better defender than Bird EVER dreamed of being. This is coming from someone who thinks Kobe is a lil overrated as well.

Bird is not carrying teams to championships like Kobe did for ring #4 and 5.. Bird was on a consistent STACKED roster almost immediately after he was drafted.

The Celtics were 29-53 the year before Bird was drafted. He brought them to 61-21 and conference championship appearance.

The Celtics were considered a has-been disaster franchise (almost got sold off to St. Louis) until Bird came in.

Also when Bird was injured in 88-89 the Celtics went 43-39 and were bounced from the first round.

[DynamicDot]

I never stated that in my post. You just projected that I did because I came to the defense of Kobe saying that he was much more skilled offensively and defensively than prime Bird ever was. That's not a hot take, it's pretty well known that Kobe is right up there

Except this is what you said

He scored 8, 8, and 12 points in consecutive games, but no one cares because Cornbread Maxwell won FMVP and the Celtics won. His peak was great, but his sustained level of greatness WAS NEVER to the level of Jordan, Bron, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Kobe

So not really. Saying he was never on the level of Kobe is basically saying Kobe is better than Bird. Not sure how Bird and Kobe are the same level if you are saying his sustained level of greatness was not as good as Kobe was in his.

[Jaydawg08]

The Celtics were 29-53 the year before Bird was drafted. He brought them to 61-21 and conference championship appearance.

The Celtics were considered a has-been disaster franchise (almost got sold off to St. Louis) until Bird came in.

Also when Bird was injured in 88-89 the Celtics went 43-39 and were bounced from the first round.

Ok.... never once did I say that Bird was overrated or not an All Time great so I have no idea why you are responding to me with stats. Jordan's team won almost the same amount of games after he retired the first time and almost went back to the ECF without him

Except this is what you said

So not really. Saying he was never on the level of Kobe is basically saying Kobe is better than Bird. Not sure how Bird and Kobe are the same level if you are saying his sustained level of greatness was not as good as Kobe was in his.

It's like you're reading it but not reading it. There is a reason I left Magic off that list as well. Bird has one of the highest peaks or 3 years in NBA history, but there is no doubt that Kobe, Jordan, Lebron, Kareem have a much longer level of elite play than he had.

It's the MJ or Lebron agrument. MJ could never dream of doing what Lebron could do this late in his career... however MJ probably had the highest peak of any NBA player ever

Same argument with a Kobe vs Bird. There is one to be made between the 2, if you also read my later statements I stated I'm not married to "Kobe>>Bird" nor do I particularly agree with that statement. I just know that Kobe is vastly superior to Bird as far as skill on the offensive and defensive end

[Noliberals4]

Ok.... never once did I say that Bird was overrated or not an All Time great so I have no idea why you are responding to me with stats. Jordan's team won almost the same amount of games after he retired the first time and almost went back to the ECF without him

You said Bird went to a stacked team after he was drafted. No, Bird made that roster stacked by being on there. Celtics had a 32 game turnaround that was due to Bird.

Lebron is the one who creates super teams because he can't win without taking the easy way out.

[Jaydawg08]

You said Bird went to a stacked team after he was drafted. No, Bird made that roster stacked by being on there. Celtics had a 32 game turnaround that was due to Bird.

Lebron is the one who creates super teams because he can't win without taking the easy way out.

Do people not read on this site or what's the deal.. I said he played with a consistent stacked roster ALMOST HIS WHOLE CAREER, which is true after his rookie year they surrounded him with HOF talent.

I NEVER stated he was drafted to an already stacked roster

Parish, McHale, Ainge, Maxwell, Walton for a year is the most stacked team of all time. I really have no idea what you're talking about

[Noliberals4]

Do people not read on this site or what's the deal.. I said he played with a consistent stacked roster ALMOST HIS WHOLE CAREER, which is true after his rookie year they surrounded him with HOF talent.

Once again, you said immediately right after he was drafted. He was drafted to a 29-53 team that played like it. He was the turnaround. When he was injured in 88-89, they went 42-40 and got swept in the first round. The year before with a healthy Bird, they went 57-25 and made it to the ECF.

Bird had a great roster, but it was built naturally. McHale was drafted and Parish was the "final piece of the puzzle" trade. Obviously a team that wins 3 rings in 6 seasons is going to be a great team. There's nothing wrong with that. You act like the Celtics brought in McHale during his prime years lol.

Parish, McHale, Ainge, Maxwell, Walton for a year is the most stacked team of all time. I really have no idea what you're talking about

Maxwell, Ainge, and McHale were drafted. Parish was done via a trade to help the Celtics go to the next level, and Walton was a brilliant 6th person addition.

It's not like Bird joined an already stacked team or the Celtics stole HOFers from other teams. It was built the right way with Bird leading the charge. They became stacked because they developed it that way. They didn't bring an already stacked team to Bird lmao.

[Jaydawg08]

Once again, you said immediately right after he was drafted. He was drafted to a 29-53 team that played like it. He was the turnaround. When he was injured in 88-89, they went 42-40 and got swept in the first round. The year before with a healthy Bird, they went 57-25 and made it to the ECF.

Bird had a great roster, but it was built naturally. McHale was drafted and Parish was the "final piece of the puzzle" trade. Obviously a team that wins 3 rings in 6 seasons is going to be a great team. There's nothing wrong with that. You act like the Celtics brought in McHale during his prime years lol.

Maxwell, Ainge, and McHale were drafted. Parish was done via a trade to help the Celtics go to the next level, and Walton was a brilliant 6th person addition.

It's not like Bird joined an already stacked team or the Celtics stole HOFers from other teams. It was built the right way with Bird leading the charge. They became stacked because they developed it that way. They didn't bring an already stacked team to Bird lmao.

Link me where I stated he was drafted to a stacked team. I said ALMOST IMMEDIATELY in the grand scheme of his career (2nd year) he was surrounded by elite talent. Is reading not really a strength of yours?

[Noliberals4]

Link me where I stated he was drafted to a stacked team. I said ALMOST IMMEDIATELY in the grand scheme of his career (2nd year) he was surrounded by elite talent. Is reading not really a strength of yours?

"Almost immediately" - what does that mean? Explain. Because in ONE year the Celtics went from 29-53 to 61-21 and the ECF. This was pre-Mchale and pre-Parish. You make it sound like Bird was struggling to win a game before McHale/Parish, which is simply not true.

And this "elite talent" went 42-40 and a first round sweep exit when Bird was out for a season.

[Jaydawg08]

"Almost immediately" - what does that mean? Explain. Because in ONE year the Celtics went from 29-53 to 61-21 and the ECF. This was pre-Mchale and pre-Parish. You make it sound like Bird was struggling to win a game before McHale/Parish, which is simply not true.

And this "elite talent" went 42-40 and a first round sweep exit when Bird was out for a season.

Again are you having trouble with reading comprehension... because I quite clearly explained exactly what that means. Here I'll post it again so you won't be confused, I know that 2 sentence response had you all sorts of confused

I said ALMOST IMMEDIATELY in the grand scheme of his career (2nd year) he was surrounded by elite talent. Is reading not really a strength of yours?

I never stated anything about Bird struggling to win games.. link me to where I did

You seem to have an issue with reading comprehension in addition to making up narratives and arguing points that I'm not even stating. Calm down, take a breath... AND READ before responding

[Noliberals4]

Again are you having trouble with reading comprehension... because I quite clearly explained exactly what that means. Here I'll post it again so you won't be confused, I know that 2 sentence response had you all sorts of confused



I never stated anything about Bird struggling to win games.. link me to where I did

You seem to have an issue with reading comprehension in addition to making up narratives and arguing points that I'm not even stating. Calm down, take a breath... AND READ before responding

I love how you went from "almost immediately after drafted" to the "grand scheme of his career."

You make it look like Bird was struggling and the only reason he won was because of McHale/Parish, when Bird went 61-21 and to the ECF as a rookie for a team that went 29-53 and 32-50 the years before.

Bird didn't have a "stacked roster" in 1981. McHale was a rookie and Ainge wasn't there yet. Bird just makes everyone around him play better (like Tom Brady and Michael Jordan do). BIRD was the reason the 1980s Celtics were so stacked. He made everyone around him better. Take him out of the equation, and the Celtics are a 6-8 seed first round exit team.

[Lunatic]

I love how you went from "almost immediately after drafted" to the "grand scheme of his career."

You make it look like Bird was struggling and the only reason he won was because of McHale/Parish, when Bird went 61-21 and to the ECF as a rookie for a team that went 29-53 and 32-50 the years before.

Bird didn't have a "stacked roster" in 1981. McHale was a rookie and Ainge wasn't there yet. Bird just makes everyone around him play better (like Tom Brady and Michael Jordan do). BIRD was the reason the 1980s Celtics were so stacked. He made everyone around him better. Take him out of the equation, and the Celtics are a 6-8 seed first round exit team.

He talks about reading comprehension but doesn't understand how ambiguous statements work.

[Jaydawg08]

I love how you went from "almost immediately after drafted" to the "grand scheme of his career."

You make it look like Bird was struggling and the only reason he won was because of McHale/Parish, when Bird went 61-21 and to the ECF as a rookie for a team that went 29-53 and 32-50 the years before.

Bird didn't have a "stacked roster" in 1981. McHale was a rookie and Ainge wasn't there yet. Bird just makes everyone around him play better (like Tom Brady and Michael Jordan do). BIRD was the reason the 1980s Celtics were so stacked. He made everyone around him better. Take him out of the equation, and the Celtics are a 6-8 seed first round exit team.

What do you consider ALMOST IMMEDIATELY after being drafted? Any rational person would assume within the first 2 years after being on the team amirite? I know it's hard to admit you're a dumbass but I think it's time.

How did I make it seem like Bird struggle. Quote me. Specifically state in my posts HOW I did, because I give props to Bird all day everyday, but I also stat the teammates around him at the start of his career were HOF worthy, which they turned out to be. That's not a knock on Bird, the same as it's not a knock on Magic

Nate Archibald is a HOFer, Robert Parish is a HOFer, Cedric Maxwell was Finals MVP, Kevin Mchale is a HOFer...... ALL those people were SOLID contributors in that 1980-81 season (5 players averaged at least 10+ PPG on that team)

[pandaboy89]

He’s whites so automatically not top 10

[Noliberals4]

What do you consider ALMOST IMMEDIATELY after being drafted? Any rational person would assume within the first 2 years after being on the team amirite? I know it's hard to admit you're a dumbass but I think it's time.

Once again, you are trying to make it seem like Bird was a nobody until the roster got stacked with Parish/McHale. Quit trying to defend your comments. You simply didn't know Bird as a rookie took a 32-50/29-53 team to a 61-21 ECF team and that's OK. You probably thought the 1980s Celtics were always stacked. That's just how good Larry Bird was - he made everyone around him better.

How did I make it seem like Bird struggle. Quote me. Specifically state in my posts HOW I did, because I give props to Bird all day everyday, but I also stat the teammates around him at the start of his career were HOF worthy, which they turned out to be. That's not a knock on Bird, the same as it's not a knock on Magic

At the start of his career the Celtics were a mess.

Also, Parish and McHale were greatly helped by Bird. Parish became a HOFer because of Bird. And McHale was a rookie the first championship year.

Nate Archibald is a HOFer, Robert Parish is a HOFer, Cedric Maxwell was Finals MVP, Kevin Mchale is a HOFer...... ALL those people were SOLID contributors in that 1980-81 season (5 players averaged at least 10+ PPG on that team)

That's nice and all, but it was Bird that made that team by making everyone around him better.

The Celtics transformation began (and ended) with Larry Bird. When Larry Bird was out for the 88-89 season, the Celtics went from 57 wins and the ECF to 42 wins and a first round exit. McHale and Parish were great players made HOFers by Bird.

[Jaydawg08]

Once again, you are trying to make it seem like Bird was a nobody until the roster got stacked with Parish/McHale. Quit trying to defend your comments. You simply didn't know Bird as a rookie took a 32-50/29-53 team to a 61-21 ECF team and that's OK. You probably thought the 1980s Celtics were always stacked. That's just how good Larry Bird was - he made everyone around him better.

At the start of his career the Celtics were a mess.

Also, Parish and McHale were greatly helped by Bird. Parish became a HOFer because of Bird. And McHale was a rookie the first championship year.

That's nice and all, but it was Bird that made that team by making everyone around him better.

The Celtics transformation began (and ended) with Larry Bird. When Larry Bird was out for the 88-89 season, the Celtics went from 57 wins and the ECF to 42 wins and a first round exit. McHale and Parish were great players made HOFers by Bird.

Bird only averaged 21 PPG that season..... and even then in the finals he was pretty terrible shooting 41% and only averaging 15 PPG and put up shooting games of 8, 8, and 12 in back to back to back games. He wasn't FMVP for that season either

Once again SHOW ME where I stated he was a loser and nobody until the roster upgrade in his 2nd year? Quote me.. show me (for the 4th time I'm having to ask this)

LMFAO at you stating that Kevin McHale (who's universally regarded as one of the greatest PF of all time) is only great because of Bird. Straight delusional

[Noliberals4]

Bird only averaged 21 PPG that season..... and even then in the finals he was pretty terrible shooting 41% and only averaging 15 PPG and put up shooting games of 8, 8, and 12 in back to back to back games. He wasn't FMVP for that season either

Once again SHOW ME where I stated he was a loser and nobody until the roster upgrade in his 2nd year? Quote me.. show me (for the 4th time I'm having to ask this)

LMFAO at you stating that Kevin McHale (who's universally regarded as one of the greatest PF of all time) is only great because of Bird. Straight delusional

Bird's impact is more than just PPG. His best season - the 1986 season - he "only" averaged 25 PPG but he was an absolute monster in the regular season and playoffs. He played like a man possessed.

Bird brings leadership, passing, defense, clutch ability, and hustle to the team. He makes everyone around him better because he puts his heart and soul in the game. He has "killer instinct."

If Lebron James had Bird's killer instinct mentality, Lebron would've easily been the GOAT.

Kevin McHale had 2 chances to lead the team without Bird and he was a first round exit both times.

[Jaydawg08]

Bird's impact is more than just PPG. His best season - the 1986 season - he "only" averaged 25 PPG but he was an absolute monster in the regular season and playoffs. He played like a man possessed.

Bird brings leadership, passing, defense, clutch ability, and hustle to the team. He makes everyone around him better because he puts his heart and soul in the game. He has "killer instinct."

If Lebron James had Bird's killer instinct mentality, Lebron would've easily been the GOAT.

Kevin McHale had 2 chances to lead the team without Bird and he was a first round exit both times.

Uhh what? This killer mentality delusional chit lol... don't make me post clutch playoff stats when it comes to Lebron vs everyone else. The only person who's even close to being in his league is Jordan

Greatest elimination game player, greatest game 7 player, most playoff buzzer beaters, etc. etc.

Bird is legit, I have no idea why you are arguing with me like I'm stating "he's not a top 7 player of all time" when I've stated clearly he's an ALL TIME GREAT. He was surrounded by elite HOF level talent for the vast majority of his career.. just like Magic. You're trying to argue with me that he wasn't when that just simply is incorrect

[Noliberals4]

Uhh what? This killer mentality delusional chit lol... don't make me post clutch playoff stats when it comes to Lebron vs everyone else. The only person who's even close to being in his league is Jordan

Lebron quits all the time and always whines. He also takes a lot of games off because he doesn't want to put in the work.

Greatest elimination game player, greatest game 7 player, most playoff buzzer beaters, etc. etc.

This is nice and all, but he also quits on his team a lot and always refuses to take the final shots himself.

For example: in the 2017 NBA Finals game 3, when Kevin Durant made the go ahead 3, Lebron got scared and quit guarding Kevin Durant.

Another example: Lebron literally quitting on the Cavs in 2010 against the Celtics.

Another example: instead of taking the final shot in game 1 in 2018, Lebron passed it to George Hill.

Lebron quit against the Warriors in game 6 in the 2015 NBA Finals. The Cavs still had a small chance to win that game but Lebron quit making an effort.

Lebron pretended to have cramps in game 1 of the 2014 NBA Finals.

I could go on and on.

Larry had bad games, but he ALWAYS gave 110%. You cannot say the same thing about Lebron.

He was surrounded by elite HOF level talent for the vast majority of his career..

Yes, great teams tend to have HOF level talent. I don't understand your point. Great players like Magic and Larry make the team around them better and perform above expectations.

You're acting like Parish had a HOF career before Larry or Kevin McHale was a HOFer the second he stepped on the court lol.

[Jaydawg08]

Lebron quits all the time and always whines. He also takes a lot of games off because he doesn't want to put in the work.

Dumb narrative, he's played the 4th most minutes of anyone in the history of the NBA (if you include playoffs)

This is nice and all, but he also quits on his team a lot and always refuses to take the final shots himself.

Another example: Lebron literally quitting on the Cavs in 2010 against the Celtics.

Explain how he quit. He put up 27/19/10 in Game 6 you imbecile

Another example: instead of taking the final shot in game 1 in 2018, Lebron passed it to George Hill.

Open for a wide open layup.. scored 51 that game

Lebron quit against the Warriors in game 6 in the 2015 NBA Finals. The Cavs still had a small chance to win that game but Lebron quit making an effort.

Lebron pretended to have cramps in game 1 of the 2014 NBA Finals.

Neither of these are even intelligent enough to respond to. Delly as your #2 isn't winning the finals, and cramps are a legit negative to your performance.... ask Jordan

Michael Jordan once checked out of NBA Finals game due to severe cramps

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/m...torade-mix-up/


It's obvious that you're a LeBron hater and unable to have rational discussions without resorting to Skip Bayless like trolling posts so we can be done

[Noliberals4]

Dumb narrative, he's played the 4th most minutes of anyone in the history of the NBA (if you include playoffs)

[img]https://i.redd.it/j4byroq2z5231.jpg g]

No one cares about him scoring game winning shots against teams he should've annihilated anyway (like the Raptors).

Explain how he quit. He put up 27/19/10 in Game 6 you imbecile

He literally threw off his jersey the second the game ended. He was mentally checked out the entire series. He didn't have what it took to lead his team to victory.

Open for a wide open layup.. scored 51 that game

Lebron should NEVER leave the game in George Hill's hands unless it's a planned play. Lebron scored 51 points, but when it actually mattered he chickened out.

Neither of these are even intelligent enough to respond to. Delly as your #2 isn't winning the finals, and cramps are a legit negative to your performance.... ask Jordan

Quit making excuses. Jordan would at least always give 110%. Lebron still had a chance to win game 6 in 2015 with a minute left, but he straight up quit.

The "omg he only had Delly as his number 2!!!!111" is loser's mentality and that's EXACTLY the point I am making.

Lebron just quits too many times. Jordan ALWAYS gave 110%. Lebron does not.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/m...torade-mix-up/

Lol, more excuses. Exact loser's mentality I keep bringing up.

Then you have the fact he needed to be bailed out by Ray Allen against the Spurs. The Heat BARELY won that series. Michael Jordan never went to a game 7 in the NBA Finals. He got the work done when he needed to.

It's obvious that you're a LeBron hater and unable to have rational discussions without resorting to Skip Bayless like trolling posts so we can be done

Lebron James IMO had all the talent to be the GOAT, but he didn't have the mentality. It's this new millennial "participation trophy" era. I mean, look how Lebron James complains about 82 game seasons. MJ played 82 games all the time - even when he didn't have to. They didn't make excuses like that.

I think 2 things worked against James from being the GOAT:

1. He skipped college.
2. He had too much hype coming in the NBA. He was already hyped as "King James" so he never had to EARN that moniker. He never had to EARN those type of accolades. MJ, Bird, Magic, etc. etc. all had to earn that.

If Lebron had Larry Bird or MJ type killer instinct, he would've been unstoppable. Lebron had signs of that: his 2007 and 2016 runs were legendary. Imagine if he had that type of mentality his entire career.