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  1. #1
    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Joining a gym this Friday, my new routine

    I've gone rogue from weighted calisthenics. I got sick of weighted pistols squats being such a pain in the ass to do, I was like I need a barbell. I'm going to still keep the volume and split the same.

    3 sets per exercise, 5-8 reps each, 0-1 RIR

    Monday:
    Upper A
    Close grip bench
    Weighted chin ups

    Tuesday: rest

    Wednesday:
    Lower A
    Squat
    Romanian deadlift
    Standing calf raise

    Thursday: rest

    Friday:
    Upper B
    Overhead press
    Underhand pendlay row

    Saturday:
    Lower B
    Squat
    Leg curls
    Standing calf raise

    Sunday: rest

    Any changes or additions that need to be made?
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  2. #2
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Looks fine given your minimalist preferences, although you'll prob want to make some adjustments after a while based on results. Your leg development should benefit from the change to weights. I'd stay somewhere in 10-20 rep range for calf raises and you may want to add a few isos down the road (easier to do effectively in gym).
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  3. #3
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Ill be honest, i have not seen much luck "practicing" a lift once a week. Seems the min to get good at a fixed form is twice a week. You could however vary the weight/reps/sets. You could also try adding just 1 hard set to an alt day just to get in the 2x a week. So monday could be 3 sets of close grip, and friday 1 set. To reduce fatigue friday could be VERY heavy, like 3 reps.
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    Registered User leidenesLK's Avatar
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    With such little volume and exercises, splitting it as an U/L is pretty inefficient. I’d just combine the U/L days and do it as a FB (A/B) 3x/wk or every other day. As it stands, the volume wouldn’t be enough for most beyond novice. If you’re going the minimalist route, I’d rather have 2 hinges in there over a hinge and a leg curl. I think you’d benefit from conv. deads in there since workload is very low where fatigue management shouldn’t be a consideration. But if that’s what you prefer, and you’re getting results, carry on.
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  5. #5
    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    With such little volume and exercises, splitting it as an U/L is pretty inefficient. I’d just combine the U/L days and do it as a FB (A/B) 3x/wk or every other day. As it stands, the volume wouldn’t be enough for most beyond novice. If you’re going the minimalist route, I’d rather have 2 hinges in there over a hinge and a leg curl. I think you’d benefit from conv. deads in there since workload is very low where fatigue management shouldn’t be a consideration. But if that’s what you prefer, and you’re getting results, carry on.
    You know what, I was just about to mention that but deleted it. I am considering a full body split 3x a week with 5 movements a workout, but 2 sets a movement instead of 3 to equate volume. Workout A, Workout B style. I moved from full body to an U/L split because back then my volume was way too high so a full body session would slaughter me but now it should work fine since I found the right amount of volume for me.

    I used to conventional deadlift a lot back when I had a membership foolishly thinking it would be all the hamstring work I'd need so that's why I now have a hip and knee flexion movement for hamstrings once I learned RDLs are much better for hamstrings.
    Last edited by Animal2692; 02-11-2021 at 07:24 AM.
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  6. #6
    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    15 minute sessions don't seem worth going into the gym to me at all.

    So I'd certainly agree that full body is the way with such low volumes and loading. But I'd do every other day instead of a strict day 3x. It can be switched around into a passable novice program.
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    I'd certainly want a minimum of 3 real lifts a days. Probably in an a/b rotation.
    Upper push
    Upper pull
    Lower
    And then 1 or 2 weak point 'idos'.

    Bench
    Chin
    Rdl
    Calfs & rear delts

    Press
    Row
    Squat
    Hamstring curl & hammer curl

    Rear delts because no ones are big enough, and hammer curls do an excellent job of keeping the tendo away. People sleep on these because they don't know better
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  7. #7
    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Looks fine given your minimalist preferences, although you'll prob want to make some adjustments after a while based on results. Your leg development should benefit from the change to weights. I'd stay somewhere in 10-20 rep range for calf raises and you may want to add a few isos down the road (easier to do effectively in gym).
    Yeah I'll give it some time and see. So far I've been progressing with the current volume so I'm not planning to add a set until it doesn't work anymore
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  8. #8
    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    15 minute sessions don't seem worth going into the gym to me at all.

    So I'd certainly agree that full body is the way with such low volumes and loading. But I'd do every other day instead of a strict day 3x. It can be switched around into a passable novice program.
    Mwfsunday
    Ttsaturday

    I'd certainly want a minimum of 3 real lifts a days. Probably in an a/b rotation.
    Upper push
    Upper pull
    Lower
    And then 1 or 2 weak point 'idos'.

    Bench
    Chin
    Rdl
    Calfs & rear delts

    Press
    Row
    Squat
    Hamstring curl & hammer curl

    Rear delts because no ones are big enough, and hammer curls do an excellent job of keeping the tendo away. People sleep on these because they don't know better
    Full body it is then. Like I mentioned, I used to do full body 3x a week but using way too much volume which made me want to go to an U/L split. On the U/L split I finally decreased volume to an amount that finally works so now I can technically transfer it back to a full body 3x a week.

    And what do you mean every other day instead of a strict day 3x? You mean where a week has 4 full body days and the week after has 3?
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  9. #9
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    Yeah I'll give it some time and see. So far I've been progressing with the current volume so I'm not planning to add a set until it doesn't work anymore
    Well aware you like to do things your own way, which is why I added qualifiers above. In the end, if you're happy with your progress that's what's most important. Agree with MyEP above that if I were to add minimal isos to this, it'd be something for rear delts and bis. Baby steps, this is in the right direction.
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  10. #10
    Registered User Animal2692's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Well aware you like to do things your own way, which is why I added qualifiers above. In the end, if you're happy with your progress that's what's most important. Agree with MyEP above that if I were to add minimal isos to this, it'd be something for rear delts and bis. Baby steps, this is in the right direction.
    Why an isolation for biceps but not triceps as well? I see both getting worked with pushing and pulling, just curious why he included an iso for biceps only as far as arms go
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  11. #11
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    Why an isolation for biceps but not triceps as well? I see both getting worked with pushing and pulling, just curious why he included an iso for biceps only as far as arms go
    Iso's are normally for stablizers/secondaries etc, and smaller fast recovery muscles(when was the last time you had sore biceps?). In what compound lift is the bicep the primary? Tricep is a primary in the bench. Bicep could be counted as a primary in the chinup or row, but there is a hella lota forearm/lat, that few pounds of bicep is not moving that 200lbs...
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    Why an isolation for biceps but not triceps as well? I see both getting worked with pushing and pulling, just curious why he included an iso for biceps only as far as arms go
    I was going to suggest an overhead extension or skullcrusher, but close grip BP will actually hammer your whole triceps pretty hard. I'd add bis first if you want to keep isos at a minimum. And figured it'd be easier for your "compound movements only" mentality to add 2 isos early on rather than 3 - really up to you. Doing a couple sets of isos as finishers after the main lifts won't have any negative impact. You can always see how it goes and add later.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Iso's are normally for stablizers/secondaries etc, and smaller fast recovery muscles(when was the last time you had sore biceps?). In what compound lift is the bicep the primary? Tricep is a primary in the bench. Bicep could be counted as a primary in the chinup or row, but there is a hella lota forearm/lat, that few pounds of bicep is not moving that 200lbs...
    Well I guess when you look at it as being a primary mover or not it makes sense. I look at it as is a muscle being used heavily (even if it's not primary) or not at all? I've had pretty good arm growth just with compounds. If I did a curl, I would definitely do hammer curls though
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    I was going to suggest an overhead extension or skullcrusher, but close grip BP will actually hammer your whole triceps pretty hard. I'd add bis first if you want to keep isos at a minimum. And figured it'd be easier for your "compound movements only" mentality to add 2 isos early on rather than 3 - really up to you. Doing a couple sets of isos as finishers after the main lifts won't have any negative impact. You can always see how it goes and add later.
    I've just seen growth in my arms with compounds only. I used to be much more minimalist by thinking conventional deadlifts are the best for hamstrings for example but I've moved more towards the middle since.
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    I also far prefer bicep isolation to tricep. I rarely do any direct tricep isolations. I think they get good development from pressing. Pull ups and rows don't hit my biceps in the same way.

    Here's my current routine:
    M
    Split squats
    bench variation
    superset cable pull throughs w/ wide grip pull downs

    W
    Back squats
    bench variation
    pull ups
    superset cable pull throughs w/ arnold press

    F
    deadlift
    bench press
    barbell rows*
    leg press (*or superset leg press w/ cable rows)

    I try and fit in some curls, reverse flys, and lateral delt raise here and there when I have time at the end. I'd like a few more isolations but I'm low on time right now.
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    Originally Posted by jademonkey View Post
    I also far prefer bicep isolation to tricep. I rarely do any direct tricep isolations. I think they get good development from pressing. Pull ups and rows don't hit my biceps in the same way.

    Here's my current routine:
    M
    Split squats
    bench variation
    superset cable pull throughs w/ wide grip pull downs

    W
    Back squats
    bench variation
    pull ups
    superset cable pull throughs w/ arnold press

    F
    deadlift
    bench press
    barbell rows*
    leg press (*or superset leg press w/ cable rows)

    I try and fit in some curls, reverse flys, and lateral delt raise here and there when I have time at the end. I'd like a few more isolations but I'm low on time right now.
    Do you get crazy bicep pumps from pulling? Just wondering, my biceps get insanely pumped from rows and chin ups
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    I've just seen growth in my arms with compounds only. I used to be much more minimalist by thinking conventional deadlifts are the best for hamstrings for example but I've moved more towards the middle since.
    At some point as you progress you'll likely need to add some isos, but maybe it's not yet. See how it goes with the switch to weights and adjust from there - if you're happy as is, no need to change.
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    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    I was going to suggest an overhead extension or skullcrusher, but close grip BP will actually hammer your whole triceps pretty hard. I'd add bis first if you want to keep isos at a minimum. And figured it'd be easier for your "compound movements only" mentality to add 2 isos early on rather than 3 - really up to you. Doing a couple sets of isos as finishers after the main lifts won't have any negative impact. You can always see how it goes and add later.
    For rear delts, do you do db flyes or face pulls?
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    Why an isolation for biceps but not triceps as well? I see both getting worked with pushing and pulling, just curious why he included an iso for biceps only as far as arms go
    I said at the bottom of the post.

    High rep hammer curls do a brilliant of keeping your elbows happy. Not something that happens with pulls or rows.

    Triceps not so much.

    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    Full body it is then. Like I mentioned, I used to do full body 3x a week but using way too much volume which made me want to go to an U/L split. On the U/L split I finally decreased volume to an amount that finally works so now I can technically transfer it back to a full body 3x a week.

    And what do you mean every other day instead of a strict day 3x? You mean where a week has 4 full body days and the week after has 3?
    Again. It was in the post.
    Mon Wed fri sun
    Tue thu sat

    Its only 1 more session per 2 weeks but with such low volume it's very hard to not recommend it
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    For rear delts, do you do db flyes or face pulls?
    I do both - haven't gone back to the gym yet so am doing them with dbs (db face pulls bent over like a pendlay).

    Personally, I prefer reverse pec deck and reverse cable flyes over db rear delt flyes.
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    I said at the bottom of the post.

    High rep hammer curls do a brilliant of keeping your elbows happy. Not something that happens with pulls or rows.

    Triceps not so much.



    Again. It was in the post.
    Mon Wed fri sun
    Tue thu sat

    Its only 1 more session per 2 weeks but with such low volume it's very hard to not recommend it
    I get what you mean with the elbow tendinitis thing. I have this thing where if I were to add something for biceps, I'd have to add something for triceps to keep them equal but then again I'm surprised some people here said rows and pull ups don't hit their biceps very well. I have a "throw it all in the same boat" mindset which will probably have to change later on since certain muscles respond to more volume instead of doing the same amount for everything across the board.
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    I get what you mean with the elbow tendinitis thing. I have this thing where if I were to add something for biceps, I'd have to add something for triceps to keep them equal but then again I'm surprised some people here said rows and pull ups don't hit their biceps very well. I have a "throw it all in the same boat" mindset which will probably have to change later on since certain muscles respond to more volume instead of doing the same amount for everything across the board.
    You can add a tricep iso too with the hammer curls. Not a big deal.

    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    For rear delts, do you do db flyes or face pulls?
    If you had to pick one, I’d go with face pulls. If you’re rowing with a somewhat wider grip, you’re already getting the effect of reverse flys but missing out on the external rotation component that you get with face pulls.
    Last edited by leidenesLK; 02-11-2021 at 10:20 AM.
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    15 minute sessions don't seem worth going into the gym to me at all.

    So I'd certainly agree that full body is the way with such low volumes and loading. But I'd do every other day instead of a strict day 3x. It can be switched around into a passable novice program.
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    I'd certainly want a minimum of 3 real lifts a days. Probably in an a/b rotation.
    Upper push
    Upper pull
    Lower
    And then 1 or 2 weak point 'idos'.

    Bench
    Chin
    Rdl
    Calfs & rear delts

    Press
    Row
    Squat
    Hamstring curl & hammer curl

    Rear delts because no ones are big enough, and hammer curls do an excellent job of keeping the tendo away. People sleep on these because they don't know better
    I agree with this, I have an ABC set up but I go whenever I feel like it, anywhere between 3-5 times a week. Not ready for a 6th day yet, I’m not man enough for all that
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    By the way, I'm planning to squat for both Workout A and B to at least having something for the quads each workout. If I replace squat with RDL on say workout B, then I'll get less quad volume in for the week. So should I squat both workouts or alternate squats with say leg extensions? What's a good quad movement to alternate with squats? I know leg extensions will hit a part of the quads that squats hardly touch, I'm not so sure if leg press or hack squats can do it either.

    Maybe have it as

    Workout A
    Squat
    Leg curl

    Workout B
    RDL
    Leg extensions

    Better recovery than squatting for both instead?
    Last edited by Animal2692; 02-11-2021 at 11:35 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    By the way, I'm planning to squat for both Workout A and B to at least having something for the quads each workout. If I replace squat with RDL on say workout B, then I'll get less quad volume in for the week. So should I squat both workouts or alternate squats with say leg extensions? What's a good quad movement to alternate with squats? I know leg extensions will hit a part of the quads that squats hardly touch, I'm not so sure if leg press or hack squats can do it either.

    Maybe have it as

    Workout A
    Squat
    Leg curl

    Workout B
    RDL
    Leg extensions

    Better recovery than squatting for both instead?
    Glute-ham raise (full ROM) > Leg curls
    Split squats, leg press, hack squat > Leg extensions

    Even if leg extensions uniquely tap into a portion of the quads, it’s a vastly inferior exercise for overall quad stimulus. These are the compromises you make when going the minimalist route. You can’t expect to do as little as possible while hitting each muscle fully. 80/20 rule applies here.
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    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    Glute-ham raise (full ROM) > Leg curls
    Split squats, leg press, hack squat > Leg extensions

    Even if leg extensions uniquely tap into a portion of the quads, it’s a vastly inferior exercise for overall quad stimulus. These are the compromises you make when going the minimalist route. You can’t expect to do as little as possible while hitting each muscle fully. 80/20 rule applies here.
    Generally I agree.

    But there are some very good fatigue management reasons to actually do curl & ext over the others. ESPECIALLY seated banded hamstring curls, those are hugely under rated!

    And many can't do clean ghrs ofc or don't have access.
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    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    Glute-ham raise (full ROM) > Leg curls
    Split squats, leg press, hack squat > Leg extensions

    Even if leg extensions uniquely tap into a portion of the quads, it’s a vastly inferior exercise for overall quad stimulus. These are the compromises you make when going the minimalist route. You can’t expect to do as little as possible while hitting each muscle fully. 80/20 rule applies here.
    Well in that case, what do you think about just squatting again over any other variations for workout B? With the amount I'm doing, I don't think fatigue management would be an issue
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    Generally I agree.

    But there are some very good fatigue management reasons to actually do curl & ext over the others. ESPECIALLY seated banded hamstring curls, those are hugely under rated!

    And many can't do clean ghrs ofc or don't have access.
    Absolutely, although I’m referring to it in this instance where fatigue management isn’t an issue due to the low workload. Minimalist route will always benefit from more compound knee + hip dominant movements over knee extension + flexion at every chance you can program it. More bang for buck. If he wants to do something a bit more fleshed out, with more volume + exercise variation, then knee flexion + extension should be programmed in for sure.
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    Originally Posted by Animal2692 View Post
    Well in that case, what do you think about just squatting again over any other variations for workout B? With the amount I'm doing, I don't think fatigue management would be an issue
    Sure. I’d personally prefer a different hip and knee compound just for variety. But if you want to repeat squats then that’s fine too.
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    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    Absolutely, although I’m referring to it in this instance where fatigue management isn’t an issue due to the low workload. Minimalist route will always benefit from more compound knee + hip dominant movements over knee extension + flexion at every chance you can program it. More bang for buck. If he wants to do something a bit more fleshed out, with more volume + exercise variation, then knee flexion + extension should be programmed in for sure.
    Yeah Pretty much, aye..

    I still program started band hammies for everyone who doesn't have a ghr tho. 😏
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