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  1. #1441
    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by spirit750 View Post
    If you have a 2K budget then just get the razor Gen-2 E and save the rest. I’ve been looking at LPVOs heavy and I don’t see the point in spending more than Razor money.

    Personally I keep going back to the PST Gen 2, but my budget is a little lower.
    I have that Gen2-E, it's a fantastic scope with a lot of real world duty and .mil use/experience proving it's up to the task. My research quickly showed it's definitely a good place to stop the money hemorrhaging

    But, also, quite a few people say the Viper PST Gen 2 is so good that to them it's not even worth the extra money for the Razor. I haven't ever had one but I'm fairly confident that $600 PST is very good.

    If I was going to spend <$1k on a new LPVO it would be an Accupoint or a PST, I think

    If I was throwing money around for no good (to me) reason I'd probably get a NF
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  2. #1442
    Registered User fishnbrah's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by keyboardworkout View Post
    The correct answer is always Nightforce or Schmidt & Bender.
    but who was US Optics?
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  3. #1443
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    I have that Gen2-E, it's a fantastic scope with a lot of real world duty and .mil use/experience proving it's up to the task. My research quickly showed it's definitely a good place to stop the money hemorrhaging

    But, also, quite a few people say the Viper PST Gen 2 is so good that to them it's not even worth the extra money for the Razor. I haven't ever had one but I'm fairly confident that $600 PST is very good.

    If I was going to spend <$1k on a new LPVO it would be an Accupoint or a PST, I think

    If I was throwing money around for no good (to me) reason I'd probably get a NF
    Looking at all these options I noticed a lot are second focal plane, any reason for that? Normally I prefer first focal plane but maybe I am missing something.
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  4. #1444
    Staunch Nationalist criminal_manne's Avatar
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    Viper is garbage I don’t know who would say it’s as good as a razor. Chinesium garbage.
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  5. #1445
    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gbullock32 View Post
    Looking at all these options I noticed a lot are second focal plane, any reason for that? Normally I prefer first focal plane but maybe I am missing something.
    Driven by most users' intended use I suppose. An illuminated reticle 1-x scope on a "fighting carbine" or do-all (including home defense) rifle, or whatever, calls for a large, bright, hard to miss reticle at 1x. With FFP it's easy to have too small of a reticle to really grab your eye at 1x. Or so the logic goes, as I have read it.

    With everybody running 5.56 AR type rifles or similar, defensive/general purpose, the magnification is more for target identification, hitting small targets at shorter distances (like, a knee protruding out from cover at 47 yards, or whatever), or just making the occasional shooting for groups at a paper target at 100 yards easier...magnification not really used to range targets or make hits at 400+. So the need for a busy reticle that ranges and has BDC etc, staying correct throughout the magnification range, not as much of an issue.

    Like, keep in mind that a lot of the time people are picking these illuminated LPVO's over a dot/holo + magnifier.

    Originally Posted by criminal_manne View Post
    Viper is garbage I don’t know who would say it’s as good as a razor. Chinesium garbage.
    I don't know who would say that either. Don't think I've ever come across that one
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  6. #1446
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Driven by most users' intended use I suppose. An illuminated reticle 1-x scope on a "fighting carbine" or do-all (including home defense) rifle, or whatever, calls for a large, bright, hard to miss reticle at 1x. With FFP it's easy to have too small of a reticle to really grab your eye at 1x. Or so the logic goes, as I have read it.

    With everybody running 5.56 AR type rifles or similar, defensive/general purpose, the magnification is more for target identification, hitting small targets at shorter distances (like, a knee protruding out from cover at 47 yards, or whatever), or just making the occasional shooting for groups at a paper target at 100 yards easier...magnification not really used to range targets or make hits at 400+. So the need for a busy reticle that ranges and has BDC etc, staying correct throughout the magnification range, not as much of an issue.

    Like, keep in mind that a lot of the time people are picking these illuminated LPVO's over a dot/holo + magnifier.



    I don't know who would say that either. Don't think I've ever come across that one
    Great explanation, I've only ever shot rifle scopes at more distance that are either ffp or sfp, and not LPVOs side to side with both to see the comparison.
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  7. #1447
    Staunch Nationalist criminal_manne's Avatar
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    Everyone needs to stop aiding and abetting enemies of the United States. Don’t buy Vortex or Holosun optics (unless you’re super poor and it’s all you can afford).

    I’d rather set $500 on fire then spend it on a Holosun.
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  8. #1448
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by criminal_manne View Post
    Everyone needs to stop aiding and abetting enemies of the United States. Don’t buy Vortex or Holosun optics (unless you’re super poor and it’s all you can afford).

    I’d rather set $500 on fire then spend it on a Holosun.
    Love my Holosun, 0 fcks given. If you want to buy nothing Chinese then good luck with just how much is made, or assembled from, Chinese parts.
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  9. #1449
    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by criminal_manne View Post
    Everyone needs to stop aiding and abetting enemies of the United States. Don’t buy Vortex or Holosun optics (unless you’re super poor and it’s all you can afford).

    I’d rather set $500 on fire then spend it on a Holosun.
    You know the Razor HD and some other Vortex optics are made in Japan, right? And that the Viper and Diamondback? (not sure on that one) are made in the Philippines?
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  10. #1450
    Spurs/Bills/Yankees GooBaaa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gbullock32 View Post
    Love my Holosun, 0 fcks given. If you want to buy nothing Chinese then good luck with just how much is made, or assembled from, Chinese parts.
    The last american car


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  11. #1451
    Staunch Nationalist criminal_manne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    You know the Razor HD and some other Vortex optics are made in Japan, right? And that the Viper and Diamondback? (not sure on that one) are made in the Philippines?
    I do know. Doesn’t matter. They are mainly Chinese made. Fuk China.
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  12. #1452
    Staunch Nationalist criminal_manne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gbullock32 View Post
    Love my Holosun, 0 fcks given. If you want to buy nothing Chinese then good luck with just how much is made, or assembled from, Chinese parts.
    Yea it’s impossible but my guns are all American brother!
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  13. #1453
    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by criminal_manne View Post
    I do know. Doesn’t matter. They are mainly Chinese made. Fuk China.
    Good luck only buying from companies who make zero products in China.
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  14. #1454
    🖕🇨🇳 Griggz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by criminal_manne View Post
    Everyone needs to stop aiding and abetting enemies of the United States. Don’t buy Vortex or Holosun optics (unless you’re super poor and it’s all you can afford).

    I’d rather set $500 on fire then spend it on a Holosun.
    Holosuns are completely fine if you're running red dot or holo. You see.. you have your PDW weapon that you want equipped properly, but other guns you'd like to play with on range day? Holsun all day long
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    Staunch Nationalist criminal_manne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Griggz View Post
    Holosuns are completely fine if you're running red dot or holo. You see.. you have your PDW weapon that you want equipped properly, but other guns you'd like to play with on range day? Holsun all day long
    I’m not questioning the product itself. Holosun products are actually decent but they are owned by the communist Chinese government.

    I have put MRO’s on my range toys they aren’t even that much more. Box says made in USA, but I’ve read that only means assembled.
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  16. #1456
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Griggz View Post
    Holosuns are completely fine if you're running red dot or holo. You see.. you have your PDW weapon that you want equipped properly, but other guns you'd like to play with on range day? Holsun all day long
    $18 red dot from Amazon on one of my range toys and it works way better than I feel it should, holds a zero perfectly an is accurate to 100 yards (don't shot this gun any further reslly). Sure it wouldn't stand up to drops or any physical abuse but for just the range it works.
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  17. #1457
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    Has anyone ordered from magpul recently? What sort of turn around time can one expect? 42k as always.


    Regarding the Made in China comments. A lot of chinese companies have set up shop in other countries with less rules, regulations, holiday time and such. They can get away with murder by bribing the local powers. They can say that the products are "Made in a country that isn't China", all the while using chinese techniques, machinery and personal. This isn't specific to firearms or accessories just thought I'd share it.
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  18. #1458
    Registered User JChippy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tornach View Post
    Has anyone ordered from magpul recently? What sort of turn around time can one expect? 42k as always.


    Regarding the Made in China comments. A lot of chinese companies have set up shop in other countries with less rules, regulations, holiday time and such. They can get away with murder by bribing the local powers. They can say that the products are "Made in a country that isn't China", all the while using chinese techniques, machinery and personal. This isn't specific to firearms or accessories just thought I'd share it.
    Dunno.

    came to say, China is OP

    maybe just scratch off the "made China" and laser engrave "made in USA" on everything since China so OP
    the above post is not serious and is for entertainment purposes only.
    Thanks for your time.
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  19. #1459
    Staunch Nationalist criminal_manne's Avatar
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    Holosun optics have a built in off switch for the red Dawn style invasion.

    Commies can turn off yo chit at a moments notice
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  20. #1460
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by criminal_manne View Post
    Holosun optics have a built in off switch for the red Dawn style invasion.

    Commies can turn off yo chit at a moments notice
    So? Our power grid and pretty much all infrastructure is fcked in that case. Back up Iron sights for that scenario.
    Short cuts to success are often paved with lies.
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  21. #1461
    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gbullock32 View Post
    So? Our power grid and pretty much all infrastructure is fcked in that case. Back up Iron sights for that scenario.
    You misspelled Accupoint/ACOG

    But then even the fiction novel favorite EMP isn't going to just knock out everybody's dot sights anyway

    I know, I know..bUt It DoEs In CoD
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  22. #1462
    In Parabellum We Trust spirit750's Avatar
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    Sounds like I’ll be coming for all your booties with my etched reticle Vortex Spitfire.
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  23. #1463
    Staunch Nationalist criminal_manne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by spirit750 View Post
    Sounds like I’ll be coming for all your booties with my etched reticle Vortex Spitfire.
    Vortex Chinese manufactured optics have a self destruct device built in. Buy American or it’s your funeral.
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  24. #1464
    enjoy the ment Rajeev762x39's Avatar
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    chinesium can be top-quality chit
    America First
    Calm AF
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  25. #1465
    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by spirit750 View Post
    Sounds like I’ll be coming for all your booties with my etched reticle Vortex Spitfire.
    Which one exactly and how do you like it? Every time I try to shoot precise with an RDS or Holo, my astigmatism starts whispering etched reticle. I think PA will be releasing a new gen of 1x prism in the next few months right? And 2x and 3x Gen III prisms too. Very interested.

    That said, my 'HD AR' has had an American made always-on RDS for years and I don't see that changing. Aimpoint PRO, Aimpoint H2, Trijicon MRO, or similar
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  26. #1466
    Staunch Nationalist criminal_manne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Which one exactly and how do you like it? Every time I try to shoot precise with an RDS or Holo, my astigmatism starts whispering etched reticle. I think PA will be releasing a new gen of 1x prism in the next few months right? And 2x and 3x Gen III prisms too. Very interested.

    That said, my 'HD AR' has had an American made always-on RDS for years and I don't see that changing. Aimpoint PRO, Aimpoint H2, Trijicon MRO, or similar
    Sounds like you’ve had some training.

    Anyone running Chinesium... get some training bros. These optics can’t last a tactical response fighting rifle class... no way.
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  27. #1467
    It's not the gun, stupid. Ikeman83's Avatar
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    A 1-6 is typically SFP because you're unlikely to need holds other than at max mag.

    Most higher power Tactical scopes are FFP so that your subtends are correct regardless of what power you're on
    What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" are you having trouble with?

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  28. #1468
    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Since their prism optic was mentioned earlier, shout-out to Primary Arms www.primaryarms.com

    One of my favorite retailers. I poked around their site after the convo, I have 20 orders with them since 2016, super happy with every one. Even the half dozen orders since covid, always fast as hell shipping (though I understand if you order a gun, that takes some time, talking non-FFL orders). Their optics seem to be great values too, naturally
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  29. #1469
    In Parabellum We Trust spirit750's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Which one exactly and how do you like it? Every time I try to shoot precise with an RDS or Holo, my astigmatism starts whispering etched reticle. I think PA will be releasing a new gen of 1x prism in the next few months right? And 2x and 3x Gen III prisms too. Very interested.

    That said, my 'HD AR' has had an American made always-on RDS for years and I don't see that changing. Aimpoint PRO, Aimpoint H2, Trijicon MRO, or similar
    The first gen 1x. I don't really have an opinion other than "it's fine", mostly because I really haven't put many rounds through anything it was attached to. I think in the back of my mind it's always been budget and I think about replacing it with a PRO or MRO more than I think about how good it is. To my eyes it's not a true 1x. The reticle is good. Nice tiny center dot if you want to get out there a bit. No clue on battery life other than the one I have in it now is dead.

    Looking at their website it doesn't have different generations but the one I have is not the same as the one pictured now.
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  30. #1470
    Staunch Nationalist criminal_manne's Avatar
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    My boy Larry Potterfield at MidwayUSA does everything Primary Arms does but much, much better. Except waaaay better shipping.

    Larry is a true saint of the industry.

    Midwayusa >>>>>> primary arms
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