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  1. #31
    Registered User snailsrus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustCallMeJonny View Post
    Isn’t that how a lot of athletes specifically mma fighters, swimmers, triathlon, etc. train?
    you said average person.

    Also, if your avi is you, you are very very very very far away from that. If you tried 2 hours of jogging 1. I would be surprised if you could finish, your backs going to hurt and you’ll get shin splints
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  2. #32
    Registered User XinXom's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by snailsrus View Post
    you said average person.

    Also, if your avi is you, you are very very very very far away from that. If you tried 2 hours of jogging 1. I would be surprised if you could finish, your backs going to hurt and you’ll get shin splints
    Exactly this you don't have 6 hours a day to swim and even if that was your plan it would takes years to get in that kind of shape. While its true you burn more with each step when you weigh more you can take 10X the steps and at a faster pace if your in shape. So a fit person cannot burn the calories you can doing easy stuff like walking however that same person can now choose to run at a pace you cannot even get to and not be dead at the end and burn more in the same time frame. You should be less focused on mma fighters as they live a different life that is most likely not possible for you to maintain. The best general advise I could give is to slowly do better in both categories and in ways you can maintain. If you cant see yourself jogging an hour a day for the rest of your life its not a workable solution. The "better" option is quite literally whatever it is YOU can make a habit and do forever.
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  3. #33
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    As everyone has said stay lean is about staying at caloric maintenance once you actually get lean.

    Its mainly all diet, getting very lean cardio plays more a part to push you through the barrier. Having higher NEAT helps ensure you can eat more but that doesn't mean hours of running it just means doing more physical movement in your day to day life e.g. going for a walk, gardening etc instead of watching TV.

    I personally never do any cardio and sit between 12-14% all year around without too much struggle. Even when I was around 20-25% bf I did no cardio just controlled my food portions and actually measured my food correctly.
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  4. #34
    Registered User FatRuss's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustCallMeJonny View Post
    Isn’t it more difficult to adhere to a diet of 2500-3000 calories than to maintain on 4000 calories with say 2 hours of daily cardio?
    No, I used to be a lot heavier than you, I can manage on 1000 calories a day without issue, for very long periods 12 months+.

    Seriously, after the first 7 days it becomes 2nd nature.

    Do cardio for health reasons only.

    I wouldn't worry about staying lean, I'd wory about loosing weight first, which will take you a long time.
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  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by FatRuss View Post
    No, I used to be a lot heavier than you, I can manage on 1000 calories a day without issue, for very long periods 12 months+.

    Seriously, after the first 7 days it becomes 2nd nature.

    Do cardio for health reasons only.

    I wouldn't worry about staying lean, I'd wory about loosing weight first, which will take you a long time.
    A 1000 a day? How?
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by JustCallMeJonny View Post
    A 1000 a day? How?
    500 for breakfast, 500 for dinner. Only drink water and no snacks.

    2 days a week I would miss breakfast as used to go into the office (work from home rest of the week). On those days I might eat a slightly bigger dinner or just have a higher deficit for the week.

    Can average 6000-7000 calories a week fine. And was around 350 pounds.

    At times I would get hungry, but that wasn't an excuse to eat, millions of people are hungry all the time.

    A member on here (serpentine or something) told me a long time ago the best deficit was the biggest deficit someone could handle. Every body will be different, but I soon adjusted and you will be able too.

    I should point out I do zero cardio lol.
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  7. #37
    my non-edited 'before'pic etet1919's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FatRuss View Post
    500 for breakfast, 500 for dinner. Only drink water and no snacks.

    2 days a week I would miss breakfast as used to go into the office (work from home rest of the week). On those days I might eat a slightly bigger dinner or just have a higher deficit for the week.

    Can average 6000-7000 calories a week fine. And was around 350 pounds.

    At times I would get hungry, but that wasn't an excuse to eat, millions of people are hungry all the time.

    A member on here (serpentine or something) told me a long time ago the best deficit was the biggest deficit someone could handle. Every body will be different, but I soon adjusted and you will be able too.

    I should point out I do zero cardio lol.

    So you don't eat when you're hungry? How do you train hard on a consistent basis then? I'm lean but I still need enough energy even if I'm just hitting the iron.
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  8. #38
    Registered User FatRuss's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by etet1919 View Post
    So you don't eat when you're hungry? How do you train hard on a consistent basis then? I'm lean but I still need enough energy even if I'm just hitting the iron.
    No, used to eat at sets times. By the time I did eat I was always hungry as sometimes it had been 24 hours on 500 cals.

    I'm lucky enough to work from home and have a home gym, so could fit it in radomly when it was suitable for me. Far from ideal, but when I was a proper fatty I chose to prioritise loosing fat over gaining muscle.

    Just to be clear I'm not lean, I never will be. For me 20% bf is my ideal. My personal goal was never to be into bodybuilding and physic. It was to shed fat and build strength/muscle whilst retaining size.
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  9. #39
    Registered User snailsrus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by etet1919 View Post
    So you don't eat when you're hungry? How do you train hard on a consistent basis then? I'm lean but I still need enough energy even if I'm just hitting the iron.
    doesnt sound like he was working out much / lifting weights. He was more focused on starving himself
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  10. #40
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FatRuss View Post
    My personal rule is: Cardio makes you fitter - Dieting (calorie deficit) looses weight. Exercise doesn't burn as many calories as people think. I'd much rather eat less than run 10 miles every day.
    I'd rather walk 5 miles a day as opposed to eating 500 fewer calories.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  11. #41
    Train hard play harder Tommy W.'s Avatar
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    This is a total fail thread.
    If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough

    Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
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  12. #42
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    I'd rather walk 5 miles a day as opposed to eating 500 fewer calories.
    Like I say everyone is different. I can't guarantee that I could always set a couple of hours everyday to cardio etc.

    OP wanted to know if he could eat 4000 calories a day. How much time per day would he need to work out to put him in a deficit large enough to loose 70 pounds?
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  13. #43
    my non-edited 'before'pic etet1919's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by snailsrus View Post
    doesnt sound like he was working out much / lifting weights. He was more focused on starving himself


    Btw, you posted that you weighed 135 lbs. while you were lifting. You quoted that number in the exercise/work-out sub-forum about a year ago. How did you manage to stay lean year-round at 135 lbs. and 5'1 ish??? I could never do that. I would start to look overweight at around 125 lbs. ish- no joke- and I'm almost 5' 1" myself!
    Last edited by etet1919; 01-30-2021 at 03:16 AM.
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  14. #44
    Registered User snailsrus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by etet1919 View Post
    Btw, you posted that you weighed 135 lbs. while you were lifting. You quoted that number in the exercise/work-out sub-forum about a year ago. How did you manage to stay lean year-round at 135 lbs. and 5'1 ish??? I could never do that. I would start to look overweight at around 125 lbs. ish- no joke- and I'm almost 5' 1" myself!
    in power lifting I competed at the highest 123 weight class. I weighed about 130-135 3-4 years ago. I am 5’2-5’3 and ive never been above a size 0 USA size

    These are from my time I lived in panama I am 130-135 ish

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  15. #45
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FatRuss View Post
    Like I say everyone is different. I can't guarantee that I could always set a couple of hours everyday to cardio etc.
    You walk at 2.5mph?
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  16. #46
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    The problem with cardio is your body adapts so much to it that cardio becomes less and less efficient for the purpose of burning calories whereas lifting weights and buliding more muscle will always be more effective for burning cals in the long run. More muscle equals more calories burned even in a resting state. But consuming less fat and less calories is the quickest way to lose weight and strip fat. There’s a saying that you cannot out train a diet and it’s so true.
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    Originally Posted by JaymzJ View Post
    The problem with cardio is your body adapts so much to it that cardio becomes less and less efficient for the purpose of burning calories whereas lifting weights and buliding more muscle will always be more effective for burning cals in the long run. .

    The adaptation is massively overstated... plus, if you get 'better' at cardio, most people end up doing more/more intense sessions...

    Do cardio. It's good for you.
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  18. #48
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    Originally Posted by JaymzJ View Post
    The problem with cardio is your body adapts so much to it that cardio becomes less and less efficient for the purpose of burning calories whereas lifting weights and buliding more muscle will always be more effective for burning cals in the long run. More muscle equals more calories burned even in a resting state. But consuming less fat and less calories is the quickest way to lose weight and strip fat. There’s a saying that you cannot out train a diet and it’s so true.
    consuming less calories over all not less fat. If you at only 100 grams of fat a day and nothing else you’d lose weight very quickly
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    The adaptation is massively overstated... plus, if you get 'better' at cardio, most people end up doing more/more intense sessions...

    Do cardio. It's good for you.
    I do think it’s beneficial and I do incorporate it somewhat. You’re right what you say about the intensity, can make a big difference. You know how most think more is better tho and they choose that over intensity 9 times out of 10.
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    For most people, if you exercise food portion control and train abut 30 min a day with a mix of cardio and weights, you'll be reasonably thin and fit. That's a permanent lifestyle and not a quick fix.

    If you want extreme results then you have to put in more extreme effort. And the results and your ability to perform are going to be less predictable because it depends on your individual body composition. If you start doing anything extreme without gradually ramping up, the odds of injury with training or failure with diet are going to be very high. There's no magic formula as a natty.
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    Originally Posted by snailsrus View Post
    consuming less calories over all not less fat. If you at only 100 grams of fat a day and nothing else you’d lose weight very quickly
    I’m talking bad fats not good fats. I understand that tho. Body composition is what OP and most everyone wanting to lose weight should be thinking of.
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    Originally Posted by JaymzJ View Post
    I do think it’s beneficial and I do incorporate it somewhat. You’re right what you say about the intensity, can make a big difference. You know how most think more is better tho and they choose that over intensity 9 times out of 10.
    Well, the effect will be similar.

    If you do MORE duration with the same intensity... you'll burn more calories

    If you do THE SAME duration but with MORE intensity... you'll burn more calories

    You're just adjusting different variables.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Well, the effect will be similar.

    If you do MORE duration with the same intensity... you'll burn more calories

    If you do THE SAME duration but with MORE intensity... you'll burn more calories

    You're just adjusting different variables.
    Well I also go by personal experience, I conducted my own experiments over the years trying different programs while not changing my diet. I was the fattest I’ve ever been and weighed the most when I stopped lifting and just did high intensity cardio via insanity dvd workout program. I’ve tried p90x which has both lifting and cardio, great for conditioning and decent but too taxing still and I couldn’t recover fast enough, always sore and just pretty average for physical appearance. As soon as I focus mostly on lifting again... boom, look and feel much better. We aren’t all made the same way either, what works for me may not work for you.
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    Originally Posted by JaymzJ View Post
    I’m talking bad fats not good fats. I understand that tho. Body composition is what OP and most everyone wanting to lose weight should be thinking of.
    even if you only consumed trans fats if your over all calories are at a deficit you will lose weight
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    Originally Posted by snailsrus View Post
    even if you only consumed trans fats if your over all calories are at a deficit you will lose weight
    Ya but what will you look like doing that? You are 100% correct, that’s why I said, “I understand that”, lol.
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    Originally Posted by JaymzJ View Post
    Well I also go by personal experience, I conducted my own experiments over the years trying different programs while not changing my diet. I was the fattest I’ve ever been and weighed the most when I stopped lifting and just did high intensity cardio via insanity dvd workout program. I’ve tried p90x which has both lifting and cardio, great for conditioning and decent but too taxing still and I couldn’t recover fast enough, always sore and just pretty average for physical appearance. As soon as I focus mostly on lifting again... boom, look and feel much better. We aren’t all made the same way either, what works for me may not work for you.

    Uh, yeah, that's because when you stop lifting weights with a 'maintenance' dose of volume and intensity, you lose water + muscle tissue + glycogen...

    As a result, your BF% will increase... that isn't the same as the actual AMOUNT of fat on your body increasing, it's a %... it's relative to total weight.

    And this idea that 'what works for me... etc...' applies is nonsense. We're both humans... we're not so biologically different than you have a magical response to lifting or cardio that differs from mine.

    You also haven't presented any objective measures and are only sharing vague observations about 'feeling' and 'looking' a certain way. So again, this kind of anecdote isn't helpful in supporting your claims.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Uh, yeah, that's because when you stop lifting weights with a 'maintenance' dose of volume and intensity, you lose water + muscle tissue + glycogen...

    As a result, your BF% will increase... that isn't the same as the actual AMOUNT of fat on your body increasing, it's a %... it's relative to total weight.

    And this idea that 'what works for me... etc...' applies is nonsense. We're both humans... we're not so biologically different than you have a magical response to lifting or cardio that differs from mine.

    You also haven't presented any objective measures and are only sharing vague observations about 'feeling' and 'looking' a certain way. So again, this kind of anecdote isn't helpful in supporting your claims.
    Well whatever, they were distinct observations, not vague tho, not small differences, huge ones. At least we can all agree that controlling caloric intake is the most effective way to lose weight.
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    Originally Posted by JaymzJ View Post
    Well whatever, they were distinct observations, not vague tho, not small differences, huge ones. At least we can all agree that controlling caloric intake is the most effective way to lose weight.
    Yes, that is true: calories are the key here.

    Which begs the question why you said: "But consuming less fat...is the quickest way to lose weight and strip fat".

    Your fat intake has nothing to do with it outside of it's contribution to total energy intake. You can lose fat consuming extremely high fat, and zero carbs, and adequate protein.

    And your definition of 'distinct' is flawed... what you see in the mirror on a single day, etc, is not a valid quantitative measurement, and you didn't even comment about the total amount of bodyweight you lost/gained or the amount of calories you consumed.

    For all we know, your total calorie expenditure was lower, and you gained fat while losing muscle mass because you simply overate due to not managing calories correctly.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Yes, that is true: calories are the key here.

    Which begs the question why you said: "But consuming less fat...is the quickest way to lose weight and strip fat".

    Your fat intake has nothing to do with it outside of it's contribution to total energy intake. You can lose fat consuming extremely high fat, and zero carbs, and adequate protein.

    And your definition of 'distinct' is flawed... what you see in the mirror on a single day, etc, is not a valid quantitative measurement, and you didn't even comment about the total amount of bodyweight you lost/gained or the amount of calories you consumed.

    For all we know, your total calorie expenditure was lower, and you gained fat while losing muscle mass because you simply overate due to not managing calories correctly.
    I said less fat and calories, I was talking about bad fats and generally someone looking to lose weight are already consuming excess (bad) fats. And generally they are looking for an easy out so they think oh less calories ok, well I can still eat crap IIFYM.

    I wasn’t talking about what I see in a mirror every day or looking at a scale every day, I’m talking about seeing a very noticeable difference over many months. Quit nitpicking every detail mayne. I don’t count calories but I do know how to manage them. I’m also not interested in getting super lean so there is that, but I know how to manage calories to lose weight and look better.
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