The leaner you get the harder its going to be and the more genetics are going to come into play, The only way to know for sure is to try it out because everybody's results will vary. I also believe from personal experience that creating a deficit from cutting calories is more detrimental on strength and your ability to make gains than keeping calories the same and creating a deficit from increased activity/cardio, the same can be said for "maintaining" recomping etc, Maintaining weight while increasing food intake and activity levels worked amazingly well for me.
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01-16-2021, 06:38 AM #31
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01-16-2021, 07:08 AM #32
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01-16-2021, 07:24 AM #33
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01-16-2021, 07:33 AM #34
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01-16-2021, 07:42 AM #35
One thing that people may be overlooking is that someone can go from 170 pounds 12% to 180 pounds while staying at 12%.
170 lb 12% is 20.4 pounds of fat.
180 lb 12% is 21.6 pounds of fat.
That would be a bulk while keeping fat gains very low. Plenty of studies have shown that that rate of muscle to fat gain is possible. You just have to be patient and know what you're doing with tracking diet and weight changes.
Now some people will claim that you can gain muscle faster by gaining more fat, but this point makes no sense. I don't know of any study that backs that up. Some people will now bring in the sumo wrestler anecdotes but gaining LBM and gaining muscle tissue aren't the same thing.
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01-16-2021, 07:53 AM #36
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01-16-2021, 08:13 AM #37
No that's impossible to tell. Instead of focussing on the amount of calories one would need to focus on actual weight change. This should ideally be measured with a 7 day moving average (also known as rolling average, not weekly average) and then adjust calories accordingly.
The ideal rate of weight gain for early intermediates/intermediates may be about 0.2% of body weight per week, as shown in this study: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...9122713&page=1
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01-16-2021, 08:25 AM #38
Great thanks, that's actually exactly what I meant to ask, the optimal weight gain.
Lately I'm experimenting with this, as working from home/COVID allows me to track every single meal and control my weight better than ever.
It seems that this number you quoted, 0.2% of body weight gives ~0.1ish kg/week or ~0.5Kg/month for me. And I've actually noticed that when monthly weight gain rises to or exceeds 1kg, I put on more fat.
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01-16-2021, 09:16 AM #39
correct. It takes awhile to learn your body, have your counting and tracking down to where you can actually stay in that very small window of just enough of a surplus to add Just muscle or at least a very small amount of fat. Guys toward the upper limits of their genetic potential especially. A lot of fat gets added when someone doesn’t want to count accurately or their training is sub par or a combo of both.
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01-16-2021, 09:20 AM #40
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01-16-2021, 09:48 AM #41
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01-16-2021, 09:54 AM #42
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01-16-2021, 11:05 AM #43
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01-16-2021, 11:09 AM #44
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01-16-2021, 12:00 PM #45
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01-16-2021, 02:30 PM #46
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01-17-2021, 03:36 AM #47
Good point, and definitely could be the case of some misunderstanding/confusion especially for beginners. I've been doing this for a while so I can tell the difference, and there is definitely muscle being added and fat being lost at the same time - not just appearance but numbers (weight) support this.
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01-17-2021, 07:17 AM #48
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01-18-2021, 04:13 AM #49
Except that we have dozens of studies showing that people actually gain LBM while losing fat, and this is measured with good scientific methods instead of just looking in the mirror.
But why would we take studies serious if we have anecdotes....
And then you have people in that situation that have laid off of training for a bit and start again and lifts start going up and thinking it’s adding muscle when it’s actually CNS adaption.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/103/3/738/4564609
All the scientists that run the studies like Stu Phillips, Brad Schoenfeld, Luc Van Loon are telling us that they often see recomp happening also in trained individuals.
Don't you think it's time to consider that what you have believed for so many years may actually not be true?
In b4 'well these are just studies, it won't work in real life...'
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01-18-2021, 06:39 AM #50
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