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  1. #1
    Registered User Karl075's Avatar
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    Very high DHEA-s but low/average T

    My blood tests are showing that I have 1.5 times the upper limit of DHEA-s (its been as high as 20 umol/L and lowest its been is 18, but the upper limit is 13.5)
    This has been fairly consistent in 3-4 tests over 3 years - with some small variations, but still significantly above the upper limit each time.

    I don't take any DHEA supplements

    If DHEA is converted to T, then why is my T levels relatively much lower than my DHEA ?

    My test levels are low to average - ~400-450 ng/dl (14-16 nmol/L), although once it was about 340 (12 nmol/L)
    This is about in the middle of the normal range, but considering I am quite young, I would say its more on the lower side

    I struggle to put on muscle (I workout - not frequently, but still 4-5* times a month, yet I look skinny-fat)

    Does anyone know why this might be? I am quite new to this so please bear with me.
    Any dietary/supplement or lifestyle recommendations/changes are welcome

    EDIT: *Before gyms closed, I would train 2-3 times a week, and although by no means an intense workout, it would usually be a decent workout, and I would feel it and be sore afterwards. Yet I look as average (even maybe below average) as some guys who've not lifted weights/done any physical training. Diet is something I probably need to improve, however, I am more prone to gaining fat than muscle. I can barely gain 1-2 inches on my chest for example, or 1 inch on my arms, which to me shows how bad my progress is.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Karl075; 01-14-2021 at 12:02 PM.
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  2. #2
    Registered User cmacken's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl075 View Post
    My blood tests are showing that I have 1.5 times the upper limit of DHEA-s (its been as high as 20 umol/L and lowest its been is 18, but the upper limit is 13.5)
    This has been fairly consistent in 3-4 tests over 3 years - with some small variations, but still significantly above the upper limit each time.

    I don't take any DHEA supplements
    But my test levels are low to average - ~400-450 ng/dl (14-16 nmol/L), although once it was about 340 (12 nmol/L)
    This is about in the middle of the normal range, but considering I am quite young, I would say its more on the lower side

    I struggle to put on muscle (I workout - not frequently, but still 4-5 times a month, yet I look skinny-fat)

    Does anyone know why this might be? I am quite new to this so please bear with me.
    Any dietary/supplement or lifestyle recommendations/changes are welcome

    Cheers
    Your test levels are fine. The bolded section above is your biggest problem. Head over to the Workout section and pick a proper beginner program from the stickies.
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  3. #3
    Registered User CommitmentRulz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl075 View Post
    I struggle to put on muscle (I workout - not frequently, but still 4-5 times a month, yet I look skinny-fat)
    I'll let other, more knowledgeable posters address the numbers, but that ^^^ is a fairly humorous statement. No effort is going to result in no impact/payoff. You likely struggle to put on muscle simply because you put no real effort into it.
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  4. #4
    Calisthenics faithbrah's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    I'll let other, more knowledgeable posters address the numbers, but that ^^^ is a fairly humorous statement. No effort is going to result in no impact/payoff. You likely struggle to put on muscle simply because you put no real effort into it.
    this right here...

    OP, we don't know if your "workout" means completely random lightweight stuff or actual (semi-)structured training, but either way doing it 4-5 times a month is not enough
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    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Have you seen an endocrinologist for your elevated DHEA-s? Hard to guess exactly what is going on without more info but I feel a persistently elevated DHEA-s warrants a round of testing to look for a cause.

    Total testosterone is meaningless without getting a free testosterone measurement.

    I don't know who ordered your labs but if nobody followed up with you about a persistently elevated DHEA-s that is concerning.
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  6. #6
    Registered User Karl075's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    I'll let other, more knowledgeable posters address the numbers, but that ^^^ is a fairly humorous statement. No effort is going to result in no impact/payoff. You likely struggle to put on muscle simply because you put no real effort into it.
    It would be a fair argument if I was expecting to look shredded, but here I am talking about a decent muscle mass rather than looking swole.
    Even a 1-2 inch on gain on my chest (without it being mostly fat) or a 0.5-1 inch gain on my arms seems to not be possible for me.
    I read that DHEA is meant to increase muscle mass and leanness, however, I clearly haven't experienced this - unless if it only occurs when it results in more T due to more DHEA ?
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  7. #7
    Registered User Karl075's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Have you seen an endocrinologist for your elevated DHEA-s? Hard to guess exactly what is going on without more info but I feel a persistently elevated DHEA-s warrants a round of testing to look for a cause.

    Total testosterone is meaningless without getting a free testosterone measurement.

    I don't know who ordered your labs but if nobody followed up with you about a persistently elevated DHEA-s that is concerning.
    I don't know where to find a decent endocrinologist?
    I have been struggling financially recently with a low paid job and family, and all these specialists just want to charge high fees (I don't have insurance).

    I ordered the tests as tests with general doctor's commentary (which I must say is very brief), and only thing they said is that its elevated and that it may be caused by supplements (which is useless to me as I don't take such supplements).

    Would (naturally) high dhea-s be considered a risk?
    I have read it can cause baldness and other side effects
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  8. #8
    Registered User CommitmentRulz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl075 View Post
    Even a 1-2 inch on gain on my chest (without it being mostly fat) or a 0.5-1 inch gain on my arms seems to not be possible for me.
    First, I hope you get to the bottom of the DHEA "issue" and that it is a very minor issue.

    However, relative to the quoted part above. It seems that you are VASTLY underestimating the time and effort that building muscle requires...
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  9. #9
    Calisthenics faithbrah's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CommitmentRulz View Post
    First, I hope you get to the bottom of the DHEA "issue" and that it is a very minor issue.

    However, relative to the quoted part above. It seems that you are VASTLY underestimating the time and effort that building muscle requires...
    again this right here, lol

    if you want to get decently muscular, you need to train multiple times per week for a year or two, maybe three depending on your starting point and standards for "decent muscle mass"

    if you want to get swole, you need to train multiple times per week for multiple years
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  10. #10
    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl075 View Post
    I don't know where to find a decent endocrinologist?
    I have been struggling financially recently with a low paid job and family, and all these specialists just want to charge high fees (I don't have insurance).

    I ordered the tests as tests with general doctor's commentary (which I must say is very brief), and only thing they said is that its elevated and that it may be caused by supplements (which is useless to me as I don't take such supplements).

    Would (naturally) high dhea-s be considered a risk?
    I have read it can cause baldness and other side effects
    Well your doctor should be able to refer you to an endocrinologist. Not sure your insurance situation. If it's been at the same level for 3 years it's likely not urgent to figure it out but I would definitely pursue it.
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  11. #11
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by faithbrah View Post
    again this right here, lol

    if you want to get decently muscular, you need to train multiple times per week for a year or two, maybe three depending on your starting point and standards for "decent muscle mass"

    if you want to get swole, you need to train multiple times per week for multiple years
    AND you've got to be fairly lean for it to show up nicely. Building substantial muscle without getting fat, or even building it with fat and then cutting down, are both long-term, painstaking processes.

    Most of the people I know who are committed only have an expectant attitude towards gains when they're looking back over say a year of committed effort, where definite changes are made and held to.

    Wouldn't it be cool if everyone could be big without trying? Lol
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  12. #12
    Registered User Karl075's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    AND you've got to be fairly lean for it to show up nicely. Building substantial muscle without getting fat, or even building it with fat and then cutting down, are both long-term, painstaking processes.

    Most of the people I know who are committed only have an expectant attitude towards gains when they're looking back over say a year of committed effort, where definite changes are made and held to.

    Wouldn't it be cool if everyone could be big without trying? Lol

    I am not expecting significant results in a short time, however if I am making almost zero progress (say for example my chest, arm measurements etc by 1-2", which over 1-2 years should be possible but I haven't made such progress).
    Although my training has been fairly on and off, I have still worked out, and there were decent periods where I trained 2-3 times a week and devoted myself to it, yet my body is below average.

    So I made this post to see if I may have some medical or genetic weakness or some deficiency that may be hindering my muscle building progress?
    also if it is solely or mostly about training, then why are some people much better definition and muscularity with little or no training?
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  13. #13
    Calisthenics faithbrah's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl075 View Post
    Although my training has been fairly on and off, I have still worked out, and there were decent periods where I trained 2-3 times a week and devoted myself to it, yet my body is below average.
    depends on what kind of training it was. for example, you can't just get in the gym, do 50 reps with extremely light weight and call it a day. maybe your starting point is below average, so it's not enough that you do unstructured workouts. can you describe your training?

    Originally Posted by Karl075 View Post
    So I made this post to see if I may have some medical or genetic weakness or some deficiency that may be hindering my muscle building progress?
    not saying it's impossible, but very unlikely

    Originally Posted by Karl075 View Post
    also if it is solely or mostly about training, then why are some people much better definition and muscularity with little or no training?
    genetics and/or playing sports since they were kids
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