Explanation as to why the second Covid Vaccine may generate stronger side effects

[mtpockets]

So you finally got your coronavirus vaccine. It took weeks of waiting, maybe a few calls before hitting the jackpot with a drive-through vaccination clinic. Or maybe you're a health care worker who got the shot at work.

Now comes the hard part -- making sure you get that second dose on time. It means another appointment, and keeping a close eye on the calendar. Plus, perhaps, a little bit of anxiety.

Doctors have been warning people that first dose can have a kick to it. And now, people are starting to report that second dose can cause more side-effects than the first dose.


Here's why that second coronavirus shot can be such a doozy


It's not an unexpected finding. Moderna and Pfizer both said in their submissions to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration that there was a noticeable difference in the reactions to the doses when they were testing their vaccines in volunteers.

"Grade 3 solicited local adverse reactions were more frequently reported after Dose 2 than Dose 1," Moderna's statement reads. Grade 3 adverse reactions include swelling, pain, body aches, headache and fever.

But why?

Analogies always help. Imagine you look out the window one night and see someone skulking around. He looks creepy, and you may be a little alarmed, but you don't panic.

"The first time someone sees that peeping Tom, they might be quite creeped out. They might go to the police station and report this person and someone will draw a sketch and that goes to all the police stations," says evolutionary biology professor Michael Worobey of the University of Arizona.

A few weeks later, you hear a noise, look out the window, and see the same face. You are more likely to react strongly this time, knowing you've seen this face before. Your heart pounds, your hands get clammy and your mind races. You may even call 911. And the police will be ready to come grab the guy.

"The next time that person tries to do something, there is likely to be a much bigger response because there are more people who are familiar with that face now," Worobey explains.

The first dose of vaccine is like that first look at the stranger -- the body's immune system takes notice and takes some precautions, but the second time it's even more primed to recognize and respond to that prompt.

This is how vaccines work in general, of course. They're meant to be like a wanted poster, educating the immune system to be on the lookout.

So-called prime-boost vaccines -- those that work better with two or more doses -- draw out this response.

"With the first dose, you are having to generate an immune response from the ground up," Worobey said.

The body produces antibodies, but also starts to generate immune cells called B cells to make targeted antibodies. This takes time -- a process known as maturing.

"You end up with a finely-tuned B-cell population," Worobey said. "Then the second time you give a person the shot, those cells are sitting around like a clone army and can immediately start producing a very big immune response, which is what is happening when people feel like they have been kicked in the teeth."

Thomas Geisbert, a professor and expert in emerging viral threats at the University of Texas Medical Branch, notes that some vaccines build up plenty of response with a single dose. But the prime-boost strategy builds a longer-lasting defense force, he says.

"Your immune system is already jacked up from the first dose," he said. So with a second dose, "You tend to build up a longer and more durable response."

The flu-like symptoms that come with any viral infection are not caused by the virus itself. They are caused by the body's response. The fever and muscle aches come from inflammation, which in turn is a sign that immune cells called T cells are sending out an alarm in the form of signaling chemicals called cytokines.

"You get swelling at the injection site," said Geisbert. "People can have chills or aches and pains, or they are feeling off or feeling tired."

That bodes well for predicting whether the vaccines will provide better protection than natural immunity. "These symptoms mean that your immune system is revving up and the vaccine is actually working," U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told a White House briefing last month.

The new coronavirus has only been around for about a year, so no one can say yet whether it will be more like measles, which people catch once in a lifetime, or like influenza, which people catch over and over again.

Studies indicate that immunity to coronavirus lasts for months anyway -- six months, nine months or even longer.

That's not 100 per cent of the population -- immunity varies a lot from one person to another, and a few cases have been documented of people being infected twice with coronavirus. But they seem to be uncommon instances.

These studies also take snapshots of people's immune systems over time and they show that right after infection, two types of antibody spike in number and then crash, while a third type builds up more slowly. And then B cells that have been "trained" to recognize the virus start producing specific antibodies that build up in the blood.

Vaccination may speed up this process -- providing people quicker protection but also perhaps providing a broader level of protection that a natural infection would.

"Because this is all going so fast, the studies and the key data are not there yet," Geisbert said.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/04/healt...ess/index.html

[Olympia2018]

Cliffs mayn I cant read this while swerving thru traffic thx

[mtpockets]

Cliffs mayn I cant read this while swerving thru traffic thx

It may suck even more than the first

Good Luck

[bodyhard]

Man if I see someone skulking around that looks creepy in my property I am not waiting, not calling the police, I am going out there and beating his ass!!

Back to your regular programming

[Plateauplower]

Two weeks to flatten the curve...Just wear two masks, until you take two doses, of your choice of two vaccines. Two times per year, coming soon.

[Bando]

Wife is a frontline healthcare worker, her arm was really sore for the 2nd dose so she took a pain pill and took it easy for a day, wasn't a huge deal.

She works with an elderly population, I know this is a me, me, me country, but the simple fact is that she can visit her elderly clients without fear of getting them sick

[Plateauplower]

Wife is a frontline healthcare worker, her arm was really sore for the 2nd dose so she took a pain pill and took it easy for a day, wasn't a huge deal.

She works with an elderly population, I know this is a me, me, me country, but the simple fact is that she can visit her elderly clients without fear of getting them sick

Last I read they were still saying you could still spread it after the vaccine. But also if you have had both and are exposed (close contact - 15min w/6’ cumulative) you didn’t need to quarantine. It’s almost like they just say whatever they want at this point. I was in an industry specific webinar the other day hosted by CDC, it was embarrassingly bad. Just a bunch of contradictory info. The theme of the entire thing was pretty much “we don’t know still studying it”, “the states determine how the vaccines are distributed - not our fault” and “ask your personal physician”. I wish they would pull their heads out of their asses and put some useful info out rather than the new strain fear mongering, that would probably lead to more people getting vaccinated imo. Numbers are dropping pretty fast though so that’s good, especially during this time of year.

[lotusdeva]

My mom had first dose no issues, second dose on 23 rd. Friend had second dose, was sick with high fever for 2 days and is finally doing ok. I am thinking about getting Sputnik as Russian embassy announced that they will be administering it to its citizens here. If they do I am money lol

[x-trainer ben]

Last I read they were still saying you could still spread it after the vaccine. But also if you have had both and are exposed (close contact - 15min w/6’ cumulative) you didn’t need to quarantine. It’s almost like they just say whatever they want at this point. I was in an industry specific webinar the other day hosted by CDC, it was embarrassingly bad. Just a bunch of contradictory info. The theme of the entire thing was pretty much “we don’t know still studying it”, “the states determine how the vaccines are distributed - not our fault” and “ask your personal physician”. I wish they would pull their heads out of their asses and put some useful info out rather than the new strain fear mongering, that would probably lead to more people getting vaccinated imo. Numbers are dropping pretty fast though so that’s good, especially during this time of year.

Ok then, as someone in the field tell us your top 3/5/10 rules to staying free from Covid-19.
Pretend that you were going to replace Fauci and make rules for the country; this could be very enlightening and helpful...go!

[Plateauplower]

Ok then, as someone in the field tell us your top 3/5/10 rules to staying free from Covid-19.
Pretend that you were going to replace Fauci and make rules for the country; this could be very enlightening and helpful...go!

If you are very concerned about the virus, limit being around people as much as possible, 6’ means nothing it’s airborne. Everyone in the household needs to do this for it to be effective. When anyone from the household does go around others wear an N-95 or better (such as APR with P-100 filters) mask over your mouth and nose, while still staying away from people as much as possible (goggles for eye protection if you are really really going for broke). Wash your hands before touching your face, prepping or eating food.
Aside from staying away from people, don’t lick or sniff handles for doors, floors, pangolins, or bats.

The reality is COVID isn’t going away, ever. It will be an endemic cold virus, people who don’t die from infection or get vaccinated will likely be immune for a long time unless it mutates drastically.

Numbers are dropping rapidly. Deaths will start falling off in a month or less and will likely stay at a low level for an extended period. Or it could just drop off completely really quickly.

[LWW]

If you are very concerned about the virus, limit being around people as much as possible, 6’ means nothing it’s airborne. Everyone in the household needs to do this for it to be effective. When anyone from the household does go around others wear an N-95 or better (such as APR with P-100 filters) mask over your mouth and nose, while still staying away from people as much as possible (goggles for eye protection if you are really really going for broke). Wash your hands before touching your face, prepping or eating food.
Aside from staying away from people, don’t lick or sniff handles for doors, floors, pangolins, or bats.

The reality is COVID isn’t going away, ever. It will be an endemic cold virus, people who don’t die from infection or get vaccinated will likely be immune for a long time unless it mutates drastically.

Numbers are dropping rapidly. Deaths will start falling off in a month or less and will likely stay at a low level for an extended period. Or it could just drop off completely really quickly.

You need to stay away from someone infected but I disagree with the goggles and masks, I don’t believe you get this by being near someone for short period of time. Like a store.

[Plateauplower]

You need to stay away from someone infected but I disagree with the goggles and masks, I don’t believe you get this by being near someone for short period of time. Like a store.

Well you’re retarded, so there’s that....

[mtpockets]

You need to stay away from someone infected but I disagree with the goggles and masks, I don’t believe you get this by being near someone for short period of time. Like a store.

How do you know who is infected?



I think you have a crystal ball and goggles

[pondus_levo]

Basically says if you get hit twice in the same spot it always hurts more the second time.

What's with these people and kindergarten analogies?

[mtpockets]

What's with these people and kindergarten analogies?

Gotta keep it simple, can't mention any names but points elbow to the short fellow in the corner.

[x-trainer ben]

If you are very concerned about the virus, limit being around people as much as possible, 6’ means nothing it’s airborne. Everyone in the household needs to do this for it to be effective. When anyone from the household does go around others wear an N-95 or better (such as APR with P-100 filters) mask over your mouth and nose, while still staying away from people as much as possible (goggles for eye protection if you are really really going for broke). Wash your hands before touching your face, prepping or eating food.
Aside from staying away from people, don’t lick or sniff handles for doors, floors, pangolins, or bats.

The reality is COVID isn’t going away, ever. It will be an endemic cold virus, people who don’t die from infection or get vaccinated will likely be immune for a long time unless it mutates drastically.

Numbers are dropping rapidly. Deaths will start falling off in a month or less and will likely stay at a low level for an extended period. Or it could just drop off completely really quickly.

On spread first and foremost!
Thank you, thank you, thank you for that unemotional, thorough, detailed, response!
This topic need not be politicized when **all most of us want** is protection and to not destroy another family member.

[Plateauplower]

On spread first and foremost!
Thank you, thank you, thank you for that unemotional, thorough, detailed, response!
This topic need not be politicized when **all most of us want** is protection and to not destroy another family member.

Yeah the people who are at risk are usually screwed though, virus gets delivered to them from caregivers either in their own homes or in the nursing homes. It’s going to get better though soon, and we are lucky this was as mild as it was. Imagine some of the things like plagues in 1400s wiping out like 60% of the population across the board in 9 months. If this was Spanish flu we’d be at like 50 mil deaths by March (population adjusted numbers). It’s still a bad deal, but to truly “protect yourself” you need to be pretty careful and probably a little lucky. It’s just hard to defeat “nature”.

[Jtbny]

Well you’re retarded, so there’s that....

This should be in his sig line

[LWW]

Well you’re retarded, so there’s that....

I'm retarded smart, like freaky smart. but you suggest walking around dressed like #4 from multiplicity..............

Baby Hulk must feel warm and fuzzy now!!!

[ChazWood]

I'm retarded smart, like freaky smart.

Too many awesome comeback zingers to choose from, so I'll keep it simple.

Nope.

The situation is more like you typically talk so much ignorant garbage, that the occasional intelligent, rational comment you make elevates above the manure pile and appears as insight by comparison.

But by all means keep believing.

[HannoCometh]

I know some folks who have been getting Covid vaccines since they were 6 years old, a couple of decades ago.

Now they're 6 foot 6 ded fkn srs

[Olympia2018]

Wife is a frontline healthcare worker, her arm was really sore for the 2nd dose so she took a pain pill and took it easy for a day, wasn't a huge deal.

She works with an elderly population, I know this is a me, me, me country, but the simple fact is that she can visit her elderly clients without fear of getting them sick

My girls about to be doctor and has worked in covid since day 1 and my opinion


If your girl is actually in the hospital and not some retirement home changing diapers she would know that covid mutates and getting an un proven long term vaccine makes about as much sense as driving backwards to work to get their faster.


The virus itself is not the problem. It’s what it can turn into and also what those vaccines can cause negatively in more then one way



Cliffs;

Would not take it

[LWW]

Too many awesome comeback zingers to choose from, so I'll keep it simple.

Nope.

The situation is more like you typically talk so much ignorant garbage, that the occasional intelligent, rational comment you make elevates above the manure pile and appears as insight by comparison.

But by all means keep believing.

The great Chaz chimes in.

Hey dweeb, go back and read earlier advises you gave me, now come back and see who resorted to name calling?

Post 6 was as ignorant emotional post of all, even a retard knows that was incorrect.

Ha, Ha, Carry on geniuses.........

[ChazWood]

The great Chaz chimes in.

Hey dweeb, go back and read earlier advises you gave me, now come back and see who resorted to name calling?

Post 6 was as ignorant emotional post of all, even a retard knows that was incorrect.

Ha, Ha, Carry on geniuses.........

haha! your best quality must be your relentless scrappiness. While often belligerent, it reveals endearing vulnerability.

I don't need to go back and reread anything. I know what I've said and stand by my intentions.

and thanks but I'm pretty damn far from great. Like you I have my moments.

[Jtbny]

Too many awesome comeback zingers to choose from, so I'll keep it simple.

Nope.

The situation is more like you typically talk so much ignorant garbage, that the occasional intelligent, rational comment you make elevates above the manure pile and appears as insight by comparison.

But by all means keep believing.

So you're saying he could be president?

ION - apparently I'm obese and made the cut to get vaccinated. As soon as I can get in, of course.

Cliffs; Will take it.

[gesten]

Lol @ anyone actually taking these cattle shots

[ChazWood]

So you're saying he could be president?

ION - apparently I'm obese and made the cut to get vaccinated. As soon as I can get in, of course.

Cliffs; Will take it.

I'm aware of no reason he can't be president. He's got many of the required attributes, and lifts which is a big plus.

and of course I'll get vaccinated when it's available here. I'm not a complete moron.

[mtpockets]

Lol @ anyone actually taking these cattle shots

Udderly rediculous but a mooving post

[bodyhard]

lol....

You know how I roll

Tried calling you the other day man, where you been?

[LWW]

HEY STEVE........

I like PIZZA, and Chocolate milk........

BYE, BYE, STEVE!!!!